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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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ducmarc
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Reged: 14/07/14
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318 Westley Richard s
      #284955 - 08/07/16 11:34 AM

Besides the Mauser action was it used in any other actions or has anyone built one on something else.thinking like a Lee or a mannlicher .

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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ducmarc
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Reged: 14/07/14
Posts: 1207
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Re: 318 Westley Richard s [Re: ducmarc]
      #284956 - 08/07/16 12:25 PM

Of course I could have scrolled down a bit and found most of what I was looking for in a previous post.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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LesLeeSpeed
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Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: 318 Westley Richard s [Re: ducmarc]
      #284962 - 08/07/16 07:01 PM

I had a lovely Simson SxS in 318 Wesley Richards. Built in 1937 if I remember correctly. After reading the posts about the 318 dimensions, I would say it was originally an 8x60S and had a 318 reamer run into the chamber here in Australia.
It shot beautifully.
LesLeeSpeed

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: 318 Westley Richard s [Re: LesLeeSpeed]
      #284989 - 09/07/16 03:54 PM

>318 Westley Richards can sometimes be found in double rifles. That reamer for the .318 WR's chamber would make it a .323/.318(330) Westley Richards (or .318/.318(330) Westley Richards ?). Getting all a bit confusing!

I assume though the bore was also opened out to .330.

Interesting if a 8x60S double rilfe was opened up. Why? Bore damaged or shot out?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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LesLeeSpeed
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Re: 318 Westley Richard s [Re: NitroX]
      #284991 - 09/07/16 05:25 PM

Hi John,
The 8x60S was 328 bore diameter according to the drawings of the case in the other thread. I never slugged the bore as I didn't have any suspicion that it may have been changed at the time. It shot Woodleigh 330 projectiles and Kynock 330 projectiles fine and I was given some 8x56R ammo and told the projectiles were suitable for the 318WR. They measured 329 and even though they were only about 220 grains they shot like stink. I can vaguely remember some of the proof marks and one of the markings was, I thought at the time 8x60.5, which I thought was dimensions. I am now inclined to think it was probably 8x60S.
It came from someone in Melbourne who you and I both know.
Les

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ducmarc
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Re: 318 Westley Richard s [Re: LesLeeSpeed]
      #285048 - 11/07/16 11:19 AM

I was thinking about a no.4 Enfield. I know where there's an action I could get.any reason that would not work?

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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Ash
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Re: 318 Westley Richard s [Re: ducmarc]
      #285101 - 12/07/16 05:41 PM

I think OAL length would be too much?

--------------------
.

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Wanabebwana
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Reged: 11/01/13
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Re: 318 Westley Richard s [Re: Ash]
      #286023 - 02/08/16 02:10 PM

If you are going to build a .318 WR it should be done properly.
If authenticity is not important then consider the .338-06 with 250gr bullets. Much easier to get the components and approximate the look and performance of the .318(.330 bore).

See if you can pick up a clean Husqvarna 146 action from Simpson Ltd.(Pick one that hasn't been drilled).

Classic pre-war commercial FN large ring Mauser 98 action. Highest quality and period correct. Best bang for the buck.

http://www.simpsonltd.com/index.php?cPath=350_370_371&sort=2a&page=1

Husqvarna 146


Original .318 Westley Richards

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ducmarc
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Reged: 14/07/14
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Re: 318 Westley Richard s [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #286216 - 08/08/16 12:31 PM

A friend of mine has a couple of Spanish large rings in nice shape .are they a decent action?

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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Wanabebwana
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Reged: 11/01/13
Posts: 221
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Re: 318 Westley Richard s [Re: ducmarc]
      #286609 - 19/08/16 03:17 PM

The Spanish M43 (1943) ,La Coruna or Eagle, is shorter than the standard action and too short for the .318 WR. Mediocre quality. Some consider them unsafe for modern .308Win loads.
Here is a warning on a forum.

So now the real problem arises. Spain surplused these rifles out, and they hit the American market. They will fit 7.62 NATO or commercial .308! What a bonanza! A cheap rifle that will chamber cheap and readily available ammo!

CAUTION!!!!
These rifles are not safe, and are not designed for, 7.62 NATO or .308 commercial loadings! If you have one and want to shoot it (I would!) you must use handloads approximating 7.62 CETME loads. A good starting point is to use load data for .300 Savage or .303 British cartridges. There is a lot of misinformation on the net regarding the safety of these rifles, but when putting your face behind that receiver, and starting your trigger squeeze, THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING! A large and well known distributor is floating a lab report that says they are perfectly safe, but they will not take responsibility when that bolt ends up in your eye!

http://curioandrelicfirearmsforum.yuku.c...ON#.V7aVRqJSTCk

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drhall762
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Reged: 22/06/16
Posts: 31
Loc: Ammon, NC
Re: 318 Westley Richard s [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #286617 - 19/08/16 11:34 PM

I think if you read closely the individual was referencing the FR7 rifles that were a modification of the 1893/1916 small ring rifles Not the large ring M43.

"OK, now we are to the meat and the purpose of this post! In the mid 50's, Spain is considering adopting the CETME rifle. To prepare the troops for a rifle that is so radically different from the Mauser design, Spain modified many 1893 and 1916 rifles to the FR7 design, as a training rifle. Recognizing the design and strength limitations of these actions, they also developed a reduced power cartridge, called the 7.62 CETME. This cartridge is externally identical to the 7.62 NATO, but with a considerably weaker powder charge (40,000 psi, within the design limitations of the 1893 and 1916 actions). They also converted the Model 1943 rifles to the FR8, this is safer due to the Mod. 98 design, assuming a good heat treat.

So now the real problem arises. Spain surplused these rifles out, and they hit the American market. They will fit 7.62 NATO or commercial .308! What a bonanza! A cheap rifle that will chamber cheap and readily available ammo!


CAUTION!!!!


These rifles are not safe, and are not designed for, 7.62 NATO or .308 commercial loadings! If you have one and want to shoot it (I would!) you must use handloads approximating 7.62 CETME loads. A good starting point is to use load data for .300 Savage or .303 British cartridges. There is a lot of misinformation on the net regarding the safety of these rifles, but when putting your face behind that receiver, and starting your trigger squeeze, THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE DOING! A large and well known distributor is floating a lab report that says they are perfectly safe, but they will not take responsibility when that bolt ends up in your eye!"

Having dealt with the Spanish small ring action, I agree whole heartedly. Keep the chamber pressures to that of the 7mm Mauser.

--------------------
Dave

In 100 years who of us will care?
An armed society is a polite society.
Just because they say you are paranoid does not mean they are not out to get you!

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lonewulf
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Re: 318 Westley Richard s [Re: drhall762]
      #286623 - 20/08/16 10:03 AM


Okay firstly, have there been any documented instances where these FR7 rifles have come apart when used with commercial or military .308W ammo? If as you say, these rifles are chambered for the .308W (7.62x51 NATO) round, chances are that most of them that have entered the civilian market will have been used with this ammo. So are they renowned for coming apart?

Secondly, is it likely that the Spanish authorities released a rifle chambered for 7.62x51 onto the civilian market if it couldn't actually be used safely with common or garden 7.62x51 ammo?

And finally, is it possible that the low powered .308 ammo used by the Spanish military in these FR7 rifles was actually intended to duplicate the recoil forces felt by the soldier when using the new CETME battle rifle, rather than being specially down loaded because of the supposed weakness of the actions in the FR7s?

Edited by lonewulf (20/08/16 10:05 AM)

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ducmarc
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Reged: 14/07/14
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Re: 318 Westley Richard s [Re: lonewulf]
      #286624 - 20/08/16 11:05 AM

These are Santa Barbara actions not fr8s.when the fr8s hit the market back in the ninetys everyone and there grandmother had one for awhile .i shot mine a ton with surplas greek and Malaysian ammo till I could afford a cetme.never heard of one blowing up.and it did could have been headspace or ammuniton.just look at the 03 Springfield they blew up too.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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Wanabebwana
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Reged: 11/01/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Canada
Re: 318 Westley Richard s [Re: ducmarc]
      #286625 - 20/08/16 12:37 PM

Good luck building a .318WR on a Spanish action. Please keep us posted with the progress of the build.
If you want an expert opinion we are incredibly fortunate to have one of the finest gun makers on this forum. Joel Dorleac of Dorleac and Dorleac answers emails. I have contacted him several times and have gotten quick and courteous responses.No one I can think of knows more about Mauser actions and will take time from his busy schedule to answer questions.

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