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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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Kano
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Reged: 09/07/03
Posts: 166
Loc: East Africa
1960 1910???
      #283963 - 16/06/16 03:03 AM

Got a 1910 in my hands with almost no marks on it. The British V crown is well marked, the Austrian eagle can be made out, there is a leg and half a slant from a N, a tiny T in a circle, an illegible graffiti, and the numerals 60 on receiver and barrel.

Serial is only on the receiver, in front of the recoil lug. Then there is +1 an 9.5. That's all.

Was this rifle made in 1960?







--------------------
Philip

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Kiwi_bloke
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Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 256
Loc: New Zealand
Re: 1960 1910??? [Re: Kano]
      #284023 - 16/06/16 07:50 PM

Tempting to think that it may have been put together from parts as wartime production. That could account for the lack of marks. Also, the 9,5x57 M.Sch. wasn't produced after 1945, to my knowledge.

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Kano
.300 member


Reged: 09/07/03
Posts: 166
Loc: East Africa
Re: 1960 1910??? [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #284025 - 16/06/16 10:13 PM

There is no "Not English Made" either... But a 1910 cobbled together in 1960? If it was wartime production there would be the usual Austrian proof marks and date code.

When did they omit serial on right side of receiver and barrel? Thinking of it, I saw another one without markings, it did not even have the receiver markings. Definitely not a military action. I'll go and give a look again

--------------------
Philip

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Kiwi_bloke
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Reged: 03/09/09
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Re: 1960 1910??? [Re: Kano]
      #284067 - 17/06/16 06:41 PM

There are other marks, not clearly shown in the photos. For instance, the marking Mannlicher-Schoenauer changed in it's style at different times. What does it say on this one? "Made in Germany" for instance?

"Not English Make" was long gone before 1960.

Normally the factory had it's name stamped on one side of the receiver and the style of this changed several times in history. Can I presume there's nothing there? Likewise, is there nothing on the upper barrel about mid-way along. It may be very faint. African rifles sometimes have an importer/retailer's name there.

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lonewulf
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Reged: 06/08/12
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Loc: South-East Otago, New Zealand
Re: 1960 1910??? [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #284093 - 18/06/16 12:39 PM

The circled "T" mark appeared on M-S rifles around 1920 (when production resumed following WW 1) and denotes the use of a new high grade steel. The mark is understood to have been introduce either during or just after the War. So, that being the case, your rifle couldn't have been made before 1920. However, as noted above, all non-British made rifles imported into the UK were marked as such from 1925,(which your rifle isn't) so that tends to suggest to me that your rifle was probably made between 1920 and 1925.

Edited by lonewulf (18/06/16 12:43 PM)

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Kano
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Reged: 09/07/03
Posts: 166
Loc: East Africa
Re: 1960 1910??? [Re: lonewulf]
      #284116 - 18/06/16 08:48 PM

Here are the other factory marks:









The rifle is not mine, and will probably end up sold as is for a project, or parted. I'm just curious with the manufacturing date...

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Kiwi_bloke
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Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 256
Loc: New Zealand
Re: 1960 1910??? [Re: Kano]
      #284136 - 19/06/16 10:38 AM

The Steyr company was first called, in 1864, "Waffenfabrik Josef und Franz Werndl & Comp.". It later became a joint stock company in 1869 and then became known as "Oesterreichische Waffenfabriks-Gesellschaft". This is what appears abbreviated on your receiver. In 1927 the name of the firm changed to "Steyr-Werke A. G.". So it is unlikely to have been made later than that, (though it would have taken a little while to use up parts inventory). This information comes from the companies' centenary publication (1864-1964), which was given to me when I visited the works at Steyr.

The double-headed eagle proof mark is Austrian, as we'd expect.

The proof mark "Not English make" was used between 1925 and 1955 according to A History of Proof Marks; Gun Proof in England in Gun Digest 1977. The absence of this mark means either that, (1) your gun was imported to England outside this period or, (2) it was never imported to England. However the mark V with a crown to me looks like a London "View" proof mark used between 1637 and 1955. So I'd say it did get imported to the UK at some point. I don't know of any similar Austrian proof mark this could be confused with, (see 1959 Gun Digest; "Development of proof in Austria-Hungary" and also Wirnsberger/Steindler Standard Directory of Proof Marks).

The 9,5x57 M.Sch. was released to the public in 1910. The company changed its' name in 1927. This is the approximate window that your rifle was made. What Lonewulf has said sounds perfectly plausible, about the T inside a circle. So that being the case, the rifle was made between 1920 (T-circle mark introduction), and 1927, (company name change). If it did get imported into the UK, (View-crown mark), but is not marked "Not English make", then it must have been before 1925. So that refines it to 1920-1925.

I think I read somewhere on this forum the year that "Made in Austria" was added to the front receiver ring, above where it says "Mannlicher-Schoenauer". I know they hadn't done so in 1920, but it was in use by 1925. There there's further confirmation.

So it's 35+ years older than 1960!

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