Kano
.300 member
Reged: 09/07/03
Posts: 166
Loc: East Africa
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Hi all, I'm looking for a Mannlicher-Schönauer in 6.5x55, 7x57, or 8x57JS. Preferably pre-war, stutzen.
Unfortunately, most of what is on offer in the US is in MS calibers, or US calibers post-1950, and I'd much rather have a 1924, or even a properly converted earlier model (I'm going hunting with it, I'm not worried about the collectible value...).
If anyone can point me in the right direction... Thanks!
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Philip
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lonewulf
.300 member
Reged: 06/08/12
Posts: 227
Loc: South-East Otago, New Zealand
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As far as I'm aware, the MS wasn't produced in 7 or 8 mm Mauser until the introduction of the 1924 model. I can't find any reference to a factory MS ever being produced in 6.5x55 (Swedish Mauser) but that said, I'm no expert.
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deeangeo
.300 member
Reged: 09/05/15
Posts: 207
Loc: United Kingdom
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https://www.vdb-waffen.de/de/waffenmarkt...mp;o=neu&v=
It's worth keeping an eye on this website.
MSch didn't produce a 6.5x55 but it's possible a rifle may have been rebarrelled/chambered, though I understand it's not a simple matter to do this due to the bolt face. But I'm not technically knowledgeable in this matter.
It's very difficult to find early 7x57 MSch's much more likely to drop on a 1950-60's MSch GK model in that cal. indeed, one is shown on the website above, although I think it's a bit pricey.
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Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse, .25-06 Rem. Schmidt & Bender 8x56 & Nosler 110gn Accubond = Game Over!
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Kano
.300 member
Reged: 09/07/03
Posts: 166
Loc: East Africa
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Thank you, I'll keep an eye on that site.
I'd prefer a 1924/25 to a 1952-on (I really don't like the swept handle). A 1950 would be a last resort... But I'm not in a hurry, I'll keep watching around.
Do you know if anyone rechambered the 6.5x54 to 6.5x55? If there is no major technical reason for not doing it, I'm sure that in Sweden at least they'll have done that once in a while.
I'd love to find a 8x57 IS from before the war, not sure if they did any (I think that the Germans were banned from such calibers after WWI, although after a while they basically said "Screw that... We're doing it anyway, and if you don't like it come here and tell us about it.").
The lack of ammo is a no-no for the 6.5x54, can't reload here.
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Philip
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Waidmannsheil
.416 member
Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2508
Loc: Melbourne Australia
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Kano, the 1950 model had a straight handle and the 1952 had the swept back handle. The 1924 model was chambered in 8x57JS but would be hard to get hold of. It would be easier to convert an 8x56MS as they are reasonably plentiful.
Waidmannsheil.
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There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.
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LongIsland
.224 member
Reged: 09/02/09
Posts: 38
Loc: New York, U.S.A.
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M-S did make 6.5x55, there was one one Gunbroker about 15 yrs ago and one of the members of the Mannlicher Collectors Association had one, they were Model NO and stamped on the receiver ring Kal. 65x55, one was a full stock with a 24" barrel. There is also a pic of one on the Mannlichers for auction thread on this site. I guess if you were willing to pay and place an order Steyr would produce almost any caliber
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Kano
.300 member
Reged: 09/07/03
Posts: 166
Loc: East Africa
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Waidmannsheil, that's one thing I thought about too, the 8x56 and 8x57JS look pretty darn close, apparently the barrels are the same, and there are heaps of nice 1908 out there (I've seen a couple of beauties reasonably priced).
However, max. CIP pressure for the 8x57 is 3900 bar/56,000 psi, and for the 8x56 MS it's 3200 bar/46,000 psi. Would there be an issue, or were the MS actions strong enough in the earlier models, and only modified in length with the 1924 - which was chambered in higher pressure rounds than the 1903/1905/1908?
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Philip
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deeangeo
.300 member
Reged: 09/05/15
Posts: 207
Loc: United Kingdom
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Quote:
MSch didn't produce a 6.5x55
Sorry, clearly I got that wrong, some were produced by Mannlicher Schoenauer... even so, I imagine they're very difficult to come by. Still, you never know your luck.
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Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse, .25-06 Rem. Schmidt & Bender 8x56 & Nosler 110gn Accubond = Game Over!
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lonewulf
.300 member
Reged: 06/08/12
Posts: 227
Loc: South-East Otago, New Zealand
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Quote:
M-S did make 6.5x55, there was one one Gunbroker about 15 yrs ago and one of the members of the Mannlicher Collectors Association had one, they were Model NO and stamped on the receiver ring Kal. 65x55, one was a full stock with a 24" barrel. There is also a pic of one on the Mannlichers for auction thread on this site. I guess if you were willing to pay and place an order Steyr would produce almost any caliber
Yes, my mistake also. I see there's a reference on the Mannlicher Association web site to 6.5x55 M-S rifles. As you note, and again, according to the Mannlicher Ass. web site, they only became available post WW 2 and apparently only in Europe (Model NO M-S) where you could also get a 6.5x57.
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kuduae
.400 member
Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1803
Loc: middle of Germany
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As I have a M 1900 Mannlicher-Schoenauer that was rechambered in Britain from 6.5x54 to 6.5x55, reproofed in Birmingham 1984, I can only warn you from attempting it. The problem is not the bolt face, needing no alterations, but the magazine. The 6.5x55 has a fatter Body. So altering the opening, the spindle, the cartridge stop and the cartridge guide surfaces is necessary to make it feed halfway reliable. Mine still does't!
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kuduae
.400 member
Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1803
Loc: middle of Germany
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Quote:
However, max. CIP pressure for the 8x57 is 3900 bar/56,000 psi, and for the 8x56 MS it's 3200 bar/46,000 psi. Would there be an issue, or were the MS actions strong enough in the earlier models, and only modified in length with the 1924 - which was chambered in higher pressure rounds than the 1903/1905/1908?
Neither steel, dimensions, overall nor bolt length was ever altered. The 1924+ models merely had the magazine opening elongated to the rear and bolt travel lengthened.
The low CIP max pressures of the pre-WW1 Mannlicher-Schoenauer cartridges come from the 1930s German RWS and DWM factory loads, using the German R5 powder. The original pre-WW1 factory loads were loaded with the Austrian government monopoly powder 3 to the same ballistics like the later German loads. The Pulver 3 gave about the same ballistics like the German R5, but generated about 20% more pressure.So the original Austrian Roth and Hirtenberger loads worked at far excessive pressures by CIP standards. BTW, Karamojo Bell complained bitterly about excessive pressures when he tried a 6.5x54 M-Sch with Austrian cartridges. As he could not get DWM loads, he gave up using the carbine.
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deeangeo
.300 member
Reged: 09/05/15
Posts: 207
Loc: United Kingdom
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Quote:
As I have a M 1900 Mannlicher-Schoenauer that was rechambered in Britain from 6.5x54 to 6.5x55, reproofed in Birmingham 1984, I can only warn you from attempting it. The problem is not the bolt face, needing no alterations, but the magazine. The 6.5x55 has a fatter Body. So altering the opening, the spindle, the cartridge stop and the cartridge guide surfaces is necessary to make it feed halfway reliable. Mine still does't!
I knew I'd read of difficulties with the conversion from 6.5x54 to 6.5x55...memory isn't what it was & I incorrectly thought the bolt face as the problem. But the magazine issue as you point out is a pain when it doesn't work properly.
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Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse, .25-06 Rem. Schmidt & Bender 8x56 & Nosler 110gn Accubond = Game Over!
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HeymSR20
.300 member
Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 248
Loc: Scotland
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Kano, please drop me a PM. A close friend has a good stock of Mannlichers in various calibres both pre and postwar and he is looks to move them on to good owners.
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Kano
.300 member
Reged: 09/07/03
Posts: 166
Loc: East Africa
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Heym, PM sent
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Philip
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HeymSR20
.300 member
Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 248
Loc: Scotland
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PM replied to
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HeymSR20
.300 member
Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 248
Loc: Scotland
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Kano - pm replied to again. If it doesn't come through your inbox may be full. Failing that please PM your email to me.
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Kano
.300 member
Reged: 09/07/03
Posts: 166
Loc: East Africa
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Got it, thanks!
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