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Hunting >> Hunting in Australia, NZ & the South Pacific
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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Scoring systems for water buffalo
      #282773 - 23/05/16 05:38 PM

I've had a question made to me on what the scoring systems for water buffalo are. And also what would be the standard for a trophy buffalo and a "gold medal" class of water buffalo.

I've given an answer, but would like the scoring system for water buffalo confirmed, ie the Douglas score system and the SCI system and any other formalised scoring systems.

Also people beliefs as to what contributes a trophy, and what would be a very good trophy / gold medal class of trophy.

Thanks.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
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Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Scoring systems for water buffalo [Re: NitroX]
      #282780 - 23/05/16 10:45 PM

Not sure if this is what you are looking for..

http://www.texashuntlodge.com/sciforms/Method3.pdf

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Scoring systems for water buffalo [Re: Ripp]
      #282823 - 24/05/16 02:14 PM

Thanks Art, that is what I told the enquirer. Same system I believe for both SCI and Dougals Score systems.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
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Re: Scoring systems for water buffalo [Re: NitroX]
      #282843 - 24/05/16 11:35 PM

John:
Although the basics are similar, the specifics of SCI and Douglas are significantly different for Asian water buffalo.

SCI score is all measurements added together, Douglas score is the sum of the smaller measurements doubled.

Douglas thereby penalizes an uneven or asymmetric trophy.

Also note that with buff horns, the Douglas length measurement goes from a point squared off with the open end of the horn, to a point around the tip and squared off with the centre of the rounded tip.

The point squared-off with the open end of the horn may be an inch or two out in space beyond the actual beginning of the leading edge of the horn. Easiest way to start the length measurement is to place the horn on the floor and push the end against a wall, with the horn at right-angles to the wall before curving away. The end of the tape is then held against the wall.

This sounds complicated, apologies, but it is quite simple in practice.
If I get time in the next day or so I'll scan a page out of the Douglas measuring manual and toss it up.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Ripp
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Re: Scoring systems for water buffalo [Re: Marrakai]
      #282848 - 24/05/16 11:52 PM

Thanks for that explanation..I don't know much of the Douglas system...

Ripp

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Claydog
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Re: Scoring systems for water buffalo [Re: Ripp]
      #282874 - 25/05/16 08:42 AM

For mine both systems are flawed and give reward to length and not enough to girth maintained towards the point. The real trophies are the old heavy broomed of bulls who never score well either way. Alot of guys won't take the old heavy bulls that have worn down points from a life time of use and want the bulls that still have long points and less girth. As a case in point look at the photos below. One is a young animal that went 107 sci and the other is an old heavy bull that went 97. I would take the old bull any day. Interested to see what others thought. These were both taken on a recent hunt.

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ozhunter
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Reged: 18/08/04
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Re: Scoring systems for water buffalo [Re: Claydog]
      #284238 - 21/06/16 10:56 AM

I'm with Claydog when it comes to preference to worn down but heavy horned old Bulls over high scoring youngsters.

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eagle27
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Re: Scoring systems for water buffalo [Re: ozhunter]
      #284249 - 21/06/16 03:58 PM

The Douglas scoring system is based on symmetry i.e. a head that is perfectly symmetrical, both antlers, horns of a trophy head the same.
This system doesn’t penalise it just provides a fair way of comparing heads. If you score the largest antler or horn or take the largest measurements of any antler/horn you can never double it numerically or visually as you only ever will have one ‘largest’ antler/horn but if you score the shortest or take the shortest measurements of any antler/horn you can double it numerically and visually. This is what the Douglas score achieves. To most people a nice symmetrical trophy head is most pleasing visually, not a trophy head that is out of proportion or with one nice side and one fuggly side.
It should be easy to get computer imaging to produce symmetrical photos of any trophy based on the shortest measurements then all trophies are compared fairly. The Douglas score is the only one I know of that is based on what our mind can visualise, any other scoring system is only a mathematical calculation and doesn’t necessarily bear resemblance to what a head actually looks like.
For what it’s worth and got nothing to do with this discussion, I am a qualified Douglas Scorer assessed and qualified many moons ago by the then quite old Norman Douglas himself.

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Marrakai
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Re: Scoring systems for water buffalo [Re: eagle27]
      #284263 - 21/06/16 10:27 PM

Clayton & Adam:
Here's another great example of a cracking old baldy-headed bull that didn't quite make a hundred points, taken by my friend Bart with his .375.



Regardless of score, a marvellous trophy and a very memorable hunt!

Lindsay: tutored and qualified by Norman Douglas himself: nice one!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Scoring systems for water buffalo [Re: Marrakai]
      #284269 - 22/06/16 01:03 AM

I prefer the SCI system.

Marrakai's photo shows how a 90 plus head makes a very fine trophy.

Claydog and Ozhunter show some good heads too.

Having taken a nice 106 pt SCI head in the past, and a few 90 + ones - never measured them. Plus an assortment of others FIRST U just enjoy hunting! Full stop. Always fun.

But if I couldn't find a whopper well over 106, and not being some balless steer, probably raised in paddocks before becoming a 'trophy', then I much prefer to find an gnarly old warrior. Like the first water buff bull that challenged me at close range in front of my .450.

I also like thicker horns. Just like a cape buff bull with a non existent boss is not preferable for me, water buff with thin horns is similar. I prefer nicer thicker horns. Just my preferences.

Cow horns are generally thinner, so a typical trophy for them.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Claydog
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Re: Scoring systems for water buffalo [Re: NitroX]
      #285118 - 13/07/16 08:41 AM

Of course there is always the possibility of finding a heavy old bull that has maintained his length. This one went 115 and you do not see wild bulls much better.

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CHAPUISARMES
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Re: Scoring systems for water buffalo [Re: Claydog]
      #285122 - 13/07/16 10:55 AM

Quote:

Of course there is always the possibility of finding a heavy old bull that has maintained his length. This one went 115 and you do not see wild bulls much better.





That one is a real "Ball Tearer" Love it



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eagle27
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Re: Scoring systems for water buffalo [Re: Marrakai]
      #285131 - 13/07/16 03:30 PM

Quote:

Clayton & Adam:
Here's another great example of a cracking old baldy-headed bull that didn't quite make a hundred points, taken by my friend Bart with his .375.



Regardless of score, a marvellous trophy and a very memorable hunt!

Lindsay: tutored and qualified by Norman Douglas himself: nice one!




Yes despite any scoring system the quality of a trophy is in the hunt and in the eye of the beholder, the above animal a classic example of that. The scars and worn bits add more to a trophy IMO than a perfect pristine head that has been wrapped in cotton wool so to speak.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Scoring systems for water buffalo [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #285133 - 13/07/16 03:37 PM

George looks happy with it. So he should. A grand truly wild buffalo trophy.

I posted some time ago a whole bunch of huge long buffalo all shot in a week, which were all steers and probably not truly wild. A true wild buffalo of any size, let alone a great one like this is truly a great trophy.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (13/07/16 03:42 PM)

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