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mckinney
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/09
Posts: 1212
Loc: usa
Deer stalking - Scottish Highlands
      #281974 - 06/05/16 05:36 PM

I've watched a few videos on highland deer stalking, and in every one the hunters are using a ridiculous looking plastic contraption with attached folding rest and foot long sound moderator for a rifle. Is this mandated by law, or can one use a classic sporting rifle complete with sound and without folding rests?

Also, if anyone has information on the cost of a highlands hunt, I'd be grateful.


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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Deer stalking - Scottish Highlands [Re: mckinney]
      #281975 - 06/05/16 06:31 PM

the moderators are all the rage it seems in the UK..I shot a few Sika in Ireland with both a 270 and a 300 wm both moderated.

You can see the bullet hit even with the 300WM..BUT I do like the noisy ones too ha ha.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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Chasseur
.375 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Deer stalking - Scottish Highlands [Re: gryphon]
      #281976 - 06/05/16 06:39 PM

To second Gryph most estates like/require you to use moderators and every estate/loaner rifle I've used had a moderator. Also, they also like/prefer you to use an attached bipod or shooting sticks. It does make sense since in some places shooting an unmoderated rifle can "clear the hill" and limit opportunities for the rest of the day. As is the case in most of Europe, the straight pull Blaser rifles are pretty ubiquitous for estate rifles. While they are accurate, I'm not a fan of them... they have even less romance with a big moderator and bipod attached...

Having said that I've also brought traditional rifles with me and had no problems with using them.

For a hunt I would recommend contacting Hendry, Ramsay and Waters. I've used them on several Scottish hunts and Vernon runs a good operation. Also very accommodating for international visitors coming as single stalkers.

http://www.scothunt.co.uk/

You can see some of my past stalks with them: PM if you want more specifics http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=263868&an=0&page=0#Post263868

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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mckinney
.400 member


Reged: 29/01/09
Posts: 1212
Loc: usa
Re: Deer stalking - Scottish Highlands [Re: Chasseur]
      #281986 - 06/05/16 11:52 PM

Chasseur, thanks for the reply. Website looks terrific (except for the moderated plastic rifles with appendages!) and the scenery can only be called majestic! Thanks also for the link to your earlier photos. It looks like you've had some wonderful trips. I make some enquiries.

Oh, to own a Scottish estate!


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Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2377
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Deer stalking - Scottish Highlands [Re: mckinney]
      #281995 - 07/05/16 08:12 AM

Have to agree with McKinney there, I cant stand the moderators, even worse on a synthetic stock. Always looks to me like an assassins rifle rather than a hunting rifle. I have always dreamed of hunting the Scottish Highlands but it would only ever be with a classically styled rifle minus any moderator. The sound of the shot has always been part of the hunt for me.
I would also say that if one is on an estate where the managers want moderators used so the animals are not dispersed by the shot for the next stalker, than their are to many paying stalkers on the estate at one time. Sort of lining up the deer one after another.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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lonewulf
.300 member


Reged: 06/08/12
Posts: 227
Loc: South-East Otago, New Zealand
Re: Deer stalking - Scottish Highlands [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #281998 - 07/05/16 10:01 AM

Absolutely agree. Moderators are immersion killers in my view. Not only because they're non-traditional but also because they're just plain ugly and as you mention, give the rifle the appearance of an assassin's weapon. If you were employed to cull a herd or slaughter a truck-load of vermin or something like that then yes, I can see they'd have a place, but not on a hunting rifle. Not in my view.

Also, it's been my experience that a single shot won't, in many circumstances, spook red deer in areas adjacent to your immediate hunting ground. A volley of shots will do it for sure but a single shot typically won't.

There are a couple of things that make me feel somewhat uncomfortable about the UK shooting experience. Aside from having to pay (which I understand is a necessary evil in that part of the world) I abhor the widespread use of moderators and I also find the seeming ubiquity of 'gun bags' out in the field weird. I don't know why you'd want to carry extra 'stuff' into the field but it's almost as though the individuals concerned are a bit embarrassed to be seen with a rifle. Maybe there's a very good reason for it that I just don't 'get' but it just seems odd to me.

I just thank Christ I live where I live and have the ability to roam over vast areas of public land with gay abandon - rifle in hand.

Edited by lonewulf (07/05/16 12:44 PM)


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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Deer stalking - Scottish Highlands [Re: lonewulf]
      #282002 - 07/05/16 12:02 PM

When in Rome.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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HeymSR20
.300 member


Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 244
Loc: Scotland
Re: Deer stalking - Scottish Highlands [Re: gryphon]
      #283759 - 12/06/16 01:22 AM

Don't worry- there are plenty of Scottish stalkers and estates that hate plastic and moderators. Indeed a lot are beginning to find that mods cause all sorts of problems with scopes and actually deer are disturbed by the boom of a rifle, but disturbed by people.

As for bipods / sticks - a lot of estates like their guests to use these as they do make shot placement for the inexperienced a lot easier. But for a rifle to shoot well off a bipod it needs plenty of weight forward and low recoil, hence a moderator. And trying to shoot a moderated rifle without a bipod .... Well it's a viscous circle.

I use a combination gun - and that gets a lot of sucking teeth!


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39242
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Deer stalking - Scottish Highlands [Re: lonewulf]
      #283813 - 13/06/16 06:08 PM

Quote:


There are a couple of things that make me feel somewhat uncomfortable about the UK shooting experience. Aside from having to pay (which I understand is a necessary evil in that part of the world) I abhor the widespread use of moderators and I also find the seeming ubiquity of 'gun bags' out in the field weird. I don't know why you'd want to carry extra 'stuff' into the field but it's almost as though the individuals concerned are a bit embarrassed to be seen with a rifle. Maybe there's a very good reason for it that I just don't 'get' but it just seems odd to me.

I just thank Christ I live where I live and have the ability to roam over vast areas of public land with gay abandon - rifle in hand.




Not sure if it is relevant to the Scottish Highlands and deer stalking. But when pigeon decoying in England, East Anglia it might have been. I got bored at one time as there were no pigeons coming in near me at all. So went for a walk to another stand, by a barn who were doing well. To stand behind them and have a chat. Opened the shotgun and walked over to them. May have closed it and readied for a shot at sonme pigeons flying in, but being in the open they saw me and didn't come near. Later the two guys at the barn said I should have put the shotgun in the gunbag when walking over, as that was required. The guy that was organising the pigeon decoying had the right to decoy but not rough shoot (or whatever it was called I forget). On this estate, there was rights to conduct pheasant drives, rough shoot, both rights owned by some Lord MuchSomething, and the local guy who organised pigeon decoying only had the right to decoy. So nio going for a walk with a gun. Guns when not decoying must be bagged.

Highland deer stalking? Don't know, other than maybe some tradition, or only being able to "stalk" (hunt) at some particular time or spot, or away from a vehicle a certain distance etc etc etc

Who knows, lots of rules and traditions over there ...

Like some of the culture but not the endless rules. Prefer our freedoms in Australia and NZ.

Perhaps some UK members or experienced in UK hunters can chime in on the question. Interested to know why gunbags would be used in the field?

Perhaps it is just to keep the rain off?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Deer stalking - Scottish Highlands [Re: NitroX]
      #283849 - 14/06/16 08:43 AM

"Like some of the culture but not the endless rules. Prefer our freedoms in Australia and NZ."

Thats it!

I spend some time on the UK forum scene and it is another world with this ,that and the rest of everything else.

Restrictions and rules on calibers and 'permissions' are so alien to us here that it makes me shiver.

Camouflage is seen by many of the old school to be just real rambo shit and I remember one fellow that was so against it he stated authoritatively that it was simply a waste of time as it didnt help..I couldn't help myself and mentioned it works pretty fugn well for the tiger!


The UK members can take over with it for sure.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26499
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Deer stalking - Scottish Highlands [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #283853 - 14/06/16 10:26 AM

Quote:

Have to agree with McKinney there, I cant stand the moderators, even worse on a synthetic stock. Always looks to me like an assassins rifle rather than a hunting rifle. I have always dreamed of hunting the Scottish Highlands but it would only ever be with a classically styled rifle minus any moderator. The sound of the shot has always been part of the hunt for me.
I would also say that if one is on an estate where the managers want moderators used so the animals are not dispersed by the shot for the next stalker, than their are to many paying stalkers on the estate at one time. Sort of lining up the deer one after another.

Waidmannsheil.




I agree - A nice 14 bore round ball gun would be perfect.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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eagle27
.400 member


Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1124
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: Deer stalking - Scottish Highlands [Re: DarylS]
      #283864 - 14/06/16 03:53 PM

FWIW a large percentage of rifles used in NZ now are plastic stocked, more often than not stainless, and with moderators fitted with a camo neoprene cover or wrapped barrel and all in camo tape and then a bipod attached.

After years of toting a nice all wood and steel 10lb Schultz and Larsen rifle around the hills I too now use a modern short action plastic stocked rifle weighing about 6.5lb all up (22" barreled Marlin 7mm-08). Have a bipod but usually keep it in the day pack and mostly just use on the range. Don't have a moderator but have shot rifles with them and they sure make a rifle pleasant to use and don't scare game the same as the boomers do. My hearing has already been stuffed from too many years of shooting big boomers so I give all praise to shooters using moderators.

Traditional? who cares, the cheap Marlin is as accurate as any other rifle I've owned or shot, gives 2900fps with the usual 140gr bullet most often used in the 7mm-08, doesn't matter if it is raining and if I drop it in a river or down a mountain, a few hundred bucks gets another.

While I appreciate fine rifles I'm afraid tradionallity makes way for practicality in the field for me now, except for my Type A Mauser 404 Jeffery, gotta be something I cling to.


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39242
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Deer stalking - Scottish Highlands [Re: eagle27]
      #283879 - 14/06/16 10:30 PM

Quote:

FWIW a large percentage of rifles used in NZ now are plastic stocked, more often than not stainless, and with moderators fitted with a camo neoprene cover or wrapped barrel and all in camo tape and then a bipod attached.





I think the synthetic stocked rifles is more due to a cost and price factor and push marketing by the makers and sellers than anything else.

A synthetic stock might be far nicer than a plan featureless lump of crap walnut. Much cheaper than a decent walnut blank and also far cheaper to make. SOMETIMES reflected in price, but when not, where it s the cost factor going?

The "tactical" marketing push and image has caught up a lot of newbies and others.

However a good synthetic stock does have advantages in durability, rough handling and weather variations.

I will use both, have two sythetic stocked rifles, a Mauser M03 but also recently bought another walnut stocked one. And a restocked military Mauser M96 in 6.5x55. However I would like to see that stocked with a classic walnut stock one day, maybe ... The rest are all walnut.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39242
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Deer stalking - Scottish Highlands [Re: NitroX]
      #283880 - 14/06/16 10:31 PM

Regarding moderators, I can see some of their benefits, but they are over-rated.

Why don't people barrel their rifles with 32 inch barrels if they are so handy that long?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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HeymSR20
.300 member


Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 244
Loc: Scotland
Re: Deer stalking - Scottish Highlands [Re: NitroX]
      #285777 - 28/07/16 07:26 AM

Yes there are many who think that the only rifle to use is a plastic fantastic with moderator, bipod and scope you can look at moon spots with. You also have to be dressed with Harkila underpants and everything else as well. They like talking a lot and making lots of videos.

But plenty still use proper rifles and insist on being properly dressed as well.


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