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sstomcat
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Does this Searcy look good?
      #281909 - 05/05/16 08:29 AM

Hello everyone,

First time poster but a long time lurker. Of late, I have become interested in doubles and fascinated by the wealth of information this forum has to offer. Many thanks!

After reading and to the best of my understanding I have narrowed my caliber to a 470 NE to use both for big game and have some fun in the Americas. I havent shot doubles before but do have used a Paradox 12 bore a while back in India. I have narrowed my search to a Searcy, Heym and or Merkel as my first double. While prowling the net I came across this Searcy and it seems attractive to me, but honestly I dont know much. Please help me decide, all opinions welcome! Thanks in advance.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/gun-libra...rdsPerPage%3D40

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lonewulf
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: sstomcat]
      #281917 - 05/05/16 09:07 AM

It's my understanding that Searcy double rifles are quite well regarded and generally considered to be good value.

Again, this is my understanding and I could be wrong, (cos I don't own one) but I think, if you wanted a practical hunting rifle to bash through the African bush, a Searcy would be well worth considering. Given what you get for your money, the price for this one seems pretty good.

Now, that said, what you aren't buying, when you get a Searcy, is the fit and finish of an old English double. As long as you understand that, you should be okay although, others may have an somewhat different view.

Edited by lonewulf (05/05/16 09:10 AM)

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sstomcat
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: lonewulf]
      #281919 - 05/05/16 09:50 AM

Lonewolf, Yes I do understand, and owning a English double one day remains a strong wish! At the same time I do think that an old english double will cost atleast 4X this price.
What I'm somewhat intrigued is the fact as to why everyone holds an old english in very high esteem? In my view metallurgy has improved from back in those days and so have modern machinery techniques etc. So what is it that a pre war double is thought of as a materpiece and not the new ones by the same makers?

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: lonewulf]
      #281922 - 05/05/16 11:55 AM

B. Searcy Double Rifle in 470 Nitro Express













--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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lonewulf
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: sstomcat]
      #281923 - 05/05/16 01:00 PM

Quote:

Lonewolf, Yes I do understand, and owning a English double one day remains a strong wish! At the same time I do think that an old english double will cost atleast 4X this price.
What I'm somewhat intrigued is the fact as to why everyone holds an old english in very high esteem? In my view metallurgy has improved from back in those days and so have modern machinery techniques etc. So what is it that a pre war double is thought of as a materpiece and not the new ones by the same makers?





Yes, sure, metallurgy has improved but that self same argument could be applied to classic cars. Why would you buy a classic car when you can go out and buy something new off the showroom floor that's a fraction of the price, 10 times as reliable and comes with sat nav and a cup-holder? And why would you buy an old Rigby or Jeffery Mauser when you can buy a Ruger All American, that would almost certainly shoot as well or better, for a fraction of the price?

The answers to those questions are so obvious that they don't require an answer. However, part of that answer can be found in your desire to own a double in the first place. Remember, game management regulations aside, anything you want to do with your new double could be done as well or better with a .308 FN FAL.

Edited by lonewulf (05/05/16 01:12 PM)

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sstomcat
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: lonewulf]
      #281931 - 05/05/16 10:36 PM

So, it has got to do more with provenance, mystique, history and antique value than a better fit finsh build quality the upper end houses are turning out today?

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Brithunter
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: sstomcat]
      #281932 - 05/05/16 10:59 PM

Why would people want a piece of chippendale furniture rather than something from Ikea?

After the chippendale furniture was made and finsihed by hand so must be inferior to the super dooper machine made stuff! That is what modern pundits would have us believe.

The truth is that the cabinet maker at chippendale furniture was highly skilled and the jointing and finish was perfect. the wood was carefully chosen and proeprly dried and seasoned hence the furniture made this old way did not move and warp unlike modern stuff.

It is the same with old quality guns hand work was cheap and profit margins no where near as high as today's greed demands. The best quality surface tables were always hand scraped not just machined or ground!

Having had to recover many brand new cars I have to question if they are as good really as the adverts would claim? Myself I don't like modern cars they are bland with no much saminess and nearly all look alike. Same goes for the majority of modern rifles they are horrible and in most cases way over priced for inferior fit and finish.

Moden means clunky, heavy and looking more like a club than a rifle IMHO. Modern furniture is the same.

As to the Searcy I am not keen on the squared profil of the fore stock butt hen again I am not considering buying it .......................... you are and if it pleases you then why not?

--------------------
Don't let the bastards grind you down!

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sstomcat
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: Brithunter]
      #281933 - 05/05/16 11:28 PM

Alright, apples to apples here please. You do no compare a Kia with a Bentley do you? I was wanting to know the reason as to why a pre war Holland and Holland or Purdey is considered superior than todays from the same maker (price aside)?

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lonewulf
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: sstomcat]
      #281935 - 05/05/16 11:41 PM

Quote:

So, it has got to do more with provenance, mystique, history and antique value than a better fit finsh build quality the upper end houses are turning out today?




Where do you get the idea that a modern double has better fit and finish that something made in the UK, before WW2?

Have a look at the wood to metal fit on the Searcy? What do you see? As I have said, I think the rifle would be a good practical hunting rifle. I have no doubts about that. However, the fit/finish could only be described as 'ordinary' for a post war effort. It certainly wouldn't have been allowed out of the shop if it had been put together by one of the renowned London makers. There is simply no comparison between pre and post war firearms (other than true custom weapons) when it comes to the marriage of wood and steel.

Edited by lonewulf (05/05/16 11:42 PM)

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aromakr
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: lonewulf]
      #281936 - 06/05/16 12:59 AM

I've been looking at that Searcy myself, however the weight of the rifle seems pretty light at 10#4oz. most 470's I see are 12 or more pounds.
Bob

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: aromakr]
      #281938 - 06/05/16 03:41 AM

Quote:

I've been looking at that Searcy myself, however the weight of the rifle seems pretty light at 10#4oz. most 470's I see are 12 or more pounds.
Bob



The paid touts and spuikers for Searcy are always claiming that is an "ideal" weight. Probably because they shoot more on the internet than real life.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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500Boswell
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: NitroX]
      #281947 - 06/05/16 05:59 AM

I bought a new field grade on the basis of the good reputation accuracy etc i had read about on the net ,it prints 5 inches low at 50 yards with the Regulated load ,the first time i loaded both barrels and closed the action, the right barrel discharged on its own ,taking the skin off my fore finger which was behind the trigger guard ,if i dont open the action with sufficient snap the left barrel will not cock ,then it broke the right firing pin which flew out the barrel ,you can see the solder along the barrel rib, isnt it supposed to be blued ? i would check it out thoroughly if you decide to buy one .

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500Boswell
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #281949 - 06/05/16 07:37 AM

What else did i forget ,the fore end has movement in it ,compared to a Merkel i had which was as tight as could be ,now i have to find a competent gunsmith to fix my ''New '' Double probably another $1000.00 -$1500.00 to fix the effing thing ,would i buy another? no way ,maybe the higher grade models are better ? ,from now on will stick to bolt actions and single shots .Verny Carron or Heym would be a better choice, at least Dealer,Factory back up .

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Rockdoc
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: aromakr]
      #281952 - 06/05/16 07:58 AM

Quote:

I've been looking at that Searcy myself, however the weight of the rifle seems pretty light at 10#4oz. most 470's I see are 12 or more pounds.
Bob


My H&H 500 3 1/4" was 10lbs10oz, my 500/450 3 1/4" is a couple of oz less. There is no way either rifle is objectionable to shoot and I would not want them any heavier.

That is from shooting them, and also some friends shooting them. They left a lasting impression - desire

The quality is impeccable. From rifles built 110yrs ago.

I would rather have a relative light well fitting rifle than a heavier club, and have sold rifles that did not meet this criteria as shooting them is not such a pleasant experience, even in relatively light recoiling cartridges.

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lonewulf
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #281954 - 06/05/16 09:37 AM

Quote:

I bought a new field grade on the basis of the good reputation accuracy etc i had read about on the net ,it prints 5 inches low at 50 yards with the Regulated load ,the first time i loaded both barrels and closed the action, the right barrel discharged on its own ,taking the skin off my fore finger which was behind the trigger guard ,if i dont open the action with sufficient snap the left barrel will not cock ,then it broke the right firing pin which flew out the barrel ,you can see the solder along the barrel rib, isnt it supposed to be blued ? i would check it out thoroughly if you decide to buy one .




Bloody-hell!

Did you every contact the maker? I assume the rifle must have been 'pre-owned' when you purchased it but even so, you'd think he'd want to know, and maybe help out.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: NitroX]
      #281967 - 06/05/16 02:18 PM

The price does not look high but then the original price was not high.

I hope later models have improved from this one. Very clunky looking.

In addition I am not impressed by stories I have heard behind the scenes of Searcy rifles having to go back to the workshop time and time again for repairs. Then get sold off back to the market.

I would go for any number of makers such as Merkel, Chapuis or Kreighoff if looking for a chaeaper double. Or Verney-Carron, Heym or other makers if looking for a better one. Searcy is not even in the race.

A second hand Chapuis would be a similar price.

Some people like Searcy's. Each to their own for the buyer.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: NitroX]
      #281981 - 06/05/16 09:29 PM

I've owned quite a few double rifles (and still have most of them).

I've never owned a Searcy and do not find them attractive in the least.

There's another forum on the web where you will find nothing but glowing reports, if you want to reinforce your desire. People here seem to be more discerning.

At that price point I would be looking at a Merkel.

You pay your money and take your chance.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Postman
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? *DELETED* [Re: CptCurl]
      #282016 - 07/05/16 10:19 PM

Post deleted by Postman

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: Postman]
      #282041 - 08/05/16 06:25 AM

Well I am not comparing a Searcy to H&H. As said a base grade Merkel, Chapuis or Krieghoff, I would consider before any Searcy. And they would probably be more relaible as well from reports behind the scenes too. Actually don't think anyone has compared a Searcy to an H&H in this thread ....

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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500Boswell
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: lonewulf]
      #282070 - 08/05/16 01:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I bought a new field grade on the basis of the good reputation accuracy etc i had read about on the net ,it prints 5 inches low at 50 yards with the Regulated load ,the first time i loaded both barrels and closed the action, the right barrel discharged on its own ,taking the skin off my fore finger which was behind the trigger guard ,if i dont open the action with sufficient snap the left barrel will not cock ,then it broke the right firing pin which flew out the barrel ,you can see the solder along the barrel rib, isnt it supposed to be blued ? i would check it out thoroughly if you decide to buy one .




Bloody-hell!

Did you every contact the maker? I assume the rifle must have been 'pre-owned' when you purchased it but even so, you'd think he'd want to know, and maybe help out.


I ordered the rifle New for my 50th ,so i could have something ''Good ''after alot of crap in my life in the past 30 years ,i contacted the Maker and asked if there was a gunsmith in Australia he recommended for repairing it and got no answer ,when the firinfg pin broke i contacted him again ,he said he would send some replacements ,that was months ago and nothing contacted him again and no reply gave up on him

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Waidmannsheil
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #282071 - 08/05/16 01:53 PM

It is really shitty when that sort of thing happens. As a business operator you have to be 100% when it comes to warranty. Things can happen sometimes but it is your response and the way you handle a warranty claim that makes you into a good business or just another rip -off merchant who is all smiles and helpful until you have a problem where they don't want to know you. Sad to hear that happened to you.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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Mauser416
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: sstomcat]
      #282149 - 10/05/16 06:28 AM

sstomcat,

There are several folks on other forums that swear by Searcy's. I do not own one so cannot say but would suggest the following:

Look at the gun at Cabela's to see if you like the fit and heft of the gun. If you do not like the balance, fit, etc. that may be enough to say No
Ask them about their return policy. Can you test fire it?
Butch is supposed to offer excellent service from what others have said
Contact Butch on his web page and ask him about any history he can share or what he would do should the gun have problems.


Eric

Let us know what you decide.

--------------------
There is nothing worse in this world than an enslaved man who naively believes himself free, except, perhaps, trying to explain to that same man his predicament.

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Yochanan
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: Mauser416]
      #282150 - 10/05/16 07:06 AM

I would not buy a Searcy as those I have seen has left a lot to be desired. Save up more shekels or look for a used double from Demas, Chapuis, Verney Carron, Heym or some smaller brand from Europe.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

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500Boswell
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: Mauser416]
      #282151 - 10/05/16 07:17 AM

On the Inaccurate Reloading Forum ,if you look up Shootaway and his Searcy and the problems he had with his, including the action locking up on him while he was on Safari in Africa .
In my opinion ,the Field Grades are parts bin specials of all the parts that nearly fit ,didnt fit ,cant fit ,should have bloody fit ,and were made on a Monday after the Wedding and hang over on Sunday .A batch of them get made up every now and again to at least get some $ back ,if the customer complains just ignore him,if its a ''known local '' he will get a decent one, a foreigner a dud, as he will never see it again ,the cost of sending it back overseas for Warranty work well ??? and then how do you know it will get fixed ?[properly ?? , The Higher Grade models are much more expensive ,so that may be the only way of being assured you are getting a good one,the Field Grades are neither here nor there ,better off with a Merkel and you get ejectors for a lesser price and better service.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Does this Searcy look good? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #282170 - 10/05/16 07:57 PM

Quote:

On the Inaccurate Reloading Forum ,if you look up Shootaway and his Searcy and the problems he had with his, including the action locking up on him while he was on Safari in Africa .
In my opinion ,the Field Grades are parts bin specials of all the parts that nearly fit ,didnt fit ,cant fit ,should have bloody fit ,and were made on a Monday after the Wedding and hang over on Sunday .A batch of them get made up every now and again to at least get some $ back ,if the customer complains just ignore him,if its a ''known local '' he will get a decent one, a foreigner a dud, as he will never see it again ,the cost of sending it back overseas for Warranty work well ??? and then how do you know it will get fixed ?[properly ?? , The Higher Grade models are much more expensive ,so that may be the only way of being assured you are getting a good one,the Field Grades are neither here nor there ,better off with a Merkel and you get ejectors for a lesser price and better service.



I see you never got offered a free Searcy to tout for Searcy back around the early 2000's.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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