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brandoninaz
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Reged: 22/02/10
Posts: 28
Loc: SC
Masquelier Double - Unknown Chamber
      #279933 - 28/03/16 02:54 AM

Hello everyone!

After a bunch of research on my newly acquired Masquelier double rifle, I'm coming up a little bit clueless as to what the gun is chambered in. Hopefully someone here can help me out. I have included a list of measurements below, and a couple shots of the proof markings.

The previous owner was using 9.3x74R brass cut and formed to the chamber to load for the rifle, but I'm not entirely sure that was the correct case. He used 35 cal rifle bullets, which seems to go along with the "8.7" marking on the barrel. 9x70R (DWM 474B) & 9.2x70R (DWM 474E) seemed like possible contenders, but the case length is a little off.

OAL: 2.670"
Neck Dia: .387"
Neck Length: .400"
Groove Dia: .362"
Shoulder Dia: .427"
Rim Dia: .560"

Larger cartridge for reference is a 9.3x74R. The fired/formed case appears that it might be a little short for the chamber at 2.580"









Maybe the rifle was rechambered from it's original cartridge. I'm stumped.

I look forward to hearing what our resident experts have to say.

Thank you

-Brandon

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Igorrock
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Reged: 01/03/07
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Re: Masquelier Double - Unknown Chamber [Re: brandoninaz]
      #279936 - 28/03/16 04:59 AM

This is quite near: http://www.municion.org/Purdey/369Purdey.htm

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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Masquelier Double - Unknown Chamber [Re: Igorrock]
      #279938 - 28/03/16 05:55 AM


Interesting questions.
I`m sure the right fella`s here will sort it out for you Brandon.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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brandoninaz
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Reged: 22/02/10
Posts: 28
Loc: SC
Re: Masquelier Double - Unknown Chamber [Re: gryphon]
      #279946 - 28/03/16 07:39 AM

For whatever it's worth, some loaded ammo came with the rifle as well. I pulled a couple rounds to see what the general composition was; 250 grain 35 cal soft point, with 42.0 grains of some stick powder.

I'm trying to decide whether or not I should try them out...

- Brandon

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TexasJohn
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Reged: 06/04/10
Posts: 167
Loc: Texas
Re: Masquelier Double - Unknown Chamber [Re: brandoninaz]
      #279948 - 28/03/16 08:30 AM

Please posts some pictures of the rifle. Year made?

--------------------
John

"In the Texas Oilfield, everything that does not kill me today, gets another chance tomorrow."

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Wayne59
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Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 1219
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA
Re: Masquelier Double - Unknown Chamber [Re: brandoninaz]
      #279950 - 28/03/16 08:44 AM

Did your measurements come from the chamber cast or the shell casing. The casing measurements will be smaller than the chamber measurement. Are the bore measurements from the chamber cast or did you actually slug the bore.

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brandoninaz
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Reged: 22/02/10
Posts: 28
Loc: SC
Re: Masquelier Double - Unknown Chamber [Re: Wayne59]
      #279954 - 28/03/16 10:22 AM

Wayne59,

All of my measurements came from the chamber cast, I haven't gotten around to slugging the bore yet.

TexasJohn,

I will try to get some more photos up tonight. The date code is difficult to make out, but the "Controller of Proof Code", S, puts it between 1952 and 1980.

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Wayne59
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Reged: 20/06/15
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Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA
Re: Masquelier Double - Unknown Chamber [Re: brandoninaz]
      #279955 - 28/03/16 11:15 AM

I just got through doing the same thing you are trying to do with a 10.75x60r. Mine has turned out to be some sort of propitiatory cartridge. I have been able to make brass and I have made a die to bump up a jacketed bullet to the proper diameter. I am still working on the regulation. German rifles tend to be all over the board on bore size so a proper bore slug will be necessary. As I understand it there bores started to become standardized after the 1920's. The German Gun collectors forum should be able to provide some usefull information. On the sides or the top of your barrels should be a marking telling you what material your bullet is constructed of along with the weight in grams. There should also be a nitro proof mark. The material the bullet is made out of and the weight will help when it comes to figuring out reloading. I also used it to check the rifling twist rate. I used one of the twist rate calculators on line to see what the proper twist for the projectile and physically checked the twist in the barrels. All of this sounds a bit mundane but it will become important if you cant match your measurements to any specific cartridge.

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brandoninaz
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Reged: 22/02/10
Posts: 28
Loc: SC
Re: Masquelier Double - Unknown Chamber [Re: Wayne59]
      #279965 - 28/03/16 02:19 PM

Here are some images. The case finish left on the inside of the forearm was impressive to me.

I pulled the cartridge holders clear of the boxes, and Hey! What do you know? Load data! The powder was 42.0 grains of IMR 3031. This charge under the same weight bullet is rated at 50,800 CUP in a 358 Win. I haven't yet checked case capacity for these mystery rounds.

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brandoninaz
.224 member


Reged: 22/02/10
Posts: 28
Loc: SC
Re: Masquelier Double - Unknown Chamber [Re: brandoninaz]
      #279969 - 28/03/16 02:51 PM

Well, I checked out case capacity, 70.6 grains of water.

I looked here, http://kwk.us/cases.html, and found the 9.3x62 is 77 grains, 35 Whelen is 71 grains, and 35 WCF is 69 grains.

My Lyman book has a 250 grain load with 46.0 grains of IMR 3031 at 35,400 CUP, so 42.0 grains is probably a reasonable load for this rifle.

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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado
Re: Masquelier Double - Unknown Chamber [Re: brandoninaz]
      #279971 - 28/03/16 03:41 PM

Quote:

German rifles tend to be all over the board on bore size so a proper bore slug will be necessary. As I understand it there bores started to become standardized after the 1920's. The German Gun collectors forum should be able to provide some usefull information.



The gun in question is Belgian.
For sure it is for jacketed bullets.
The measurements are very close to the 400/350 Rigby and the 400/360 (9X70R) both of which can be made from 9.3X74R brass.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Wayne59
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Reged: 20/06/15
Posts: 1219
Loc: Lagrange Ga. USA
Re: Masquelier Double - Unknown Chamber [Re: Huvius]
      #279976 - 28/03/16 10:23 PM

Sorry about that it is Belgium. Must of been having a brain fart.

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Masquelier Double - Unknown Chamber [Re: brandoninaz]
      #280354 - 05/04/16 11:41 AM

That's a nice little Belgian double.
It looks like the chambers must have been altered at some time. The little ring showing on the chamber cast neck is a hint that something has been modified.
As you say, it's hard to find any cartridge which will match up with all the dimensions of your chamber cast, and especially the overall case length.

It's quite possible that the gun was originally chambered for either the 9x57R or the 35 Winchester, as these chamberings are not uncommon in Belgian doubles.

Anyway as long as you can form cases to safely fit the existing chambers, and the loads shoot to regulation, that's all that's really important.
The 35 calibre is a good killer on medium game.
I regularly hunt with a scoped double in 400-350NE, and love that particular cartridge.
Enjoy your double and please post more photos when you have taken it hunting.

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