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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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tomPorter
.224 member


Reged: 01/03/16
Posts: 5
Loc: New York
New member, own a puzzling Steyr M-S, could use some help!
      #278776 - 04/03/16 01:58 PM

Very glad to be a new forum member, and I have enjoyed reading all the posts in the Mannlicher sub-forum

I have a question about the proper cartridge for a Steyr Mannlicher based on the 1903 model, built in 1930, which I believe is what they called the 'High velocity Rifle' with the longer action to handle cartridges such as 30-06 and 8mmx57. It has what I believe to be a contemporary scope in a wonderful detachable claw mount. The scope is marked Hentzoldt - Wetzlar Dialytan 4x.

I bought it used at a gun show many years ago, bearing a tag labeled as 8mmx57, but have fired it very seldom as I was concerned about the actual caliber once I started doing research about the multitude of calibers these rifles were offered in.

I had a chamber casting done by the only gunsmith I could find to do one in the part of the United States I lived in at the time, and he said it might be 8x57, but no more than that. I have not had the barrel slugged.

Based on that limited information I shot 4 or 5 rounds of some commercial 8x57 Mauser ammunition which I understand is loaded very mildly to deal with the .318 vs .323 bore differences.

To make a long story shorter, I recently screwed up my courage and removed the action from the stock and found the following markings on the bottom of the breech (described row by row):

Crowned B Crowned C

Crowned U

7,8 mm

56 1/2

6/30

3251 A sideways T in a circle

{Then running vertically}

+
0
5
*

8
0 2

I am assuming that this is chambered for a 7.8 mm bullet in a 56 1/2 mm case and was built in June 1930, serial number 3251.

I certainly have not been able to find such a cartridge based on my feeble Google skills.

Please see (poor) photos:

Breech:




Rifle:



amd




Album here:

http://imgur.com/a/Nzajb

Any and all help very welcome, specifically in determining if this is chambered in a caliber I can find cartridges for or reload. Ideally I would like someone to tell me that I can shoot commercial hunting 8x57 Mauser loads such as the Remington Express Ammunition 8x57mm JS Mauser (8mm Mauser) 170 Grain Core-Lokt Soft Point, which at least spools into the magazine, unlike spitzer rounds.

I remain, a puzzled, hopelessly in love, proud owner,

Tom Porter

Edited by tomPorter (05/03/16 03:13 AM)

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fsrmg1
.300 member


Reged: 25/07/03
Posts: 158
Loc: Western Australia
Re: New member, own a puzzling Steyr M-S, could use some help! [Re: tomPorter]
      #278876 - 06/03/16 11:06 AM

To me it sounds like you have a M1908 in 8x56mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer. If this is the case, you should be able to for cases from 8x57 brass. There is an article in Pet Loads on doing this. They are very similar, but not interchangeable.

Good luck and happy shooting.

--------------------
Cheers,

Rich

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tomPorter
.224 member


Reged: 01/03/16
Posts: 5
Loc: New York
Re: New member, own a puzzling Steyr M-S, could use some help! [Re: fsrmg1]
      #278889 - 06/03/16 03:29 PM

Dear Fsrmg1,

Thanks for the info. Does the 8x56 M-S identification fit with the breech markings? I only ask because the second of the cartridge designations does appear to be 5_6_ 1/2 and not 5_5_ 1/2 since the second number does appear to be a six when seen in person. That may not have been clear from the photo's.

Unfortunately the front scope mount dovetail eliminated the caliber designation.

The left had side of the breech says 'Oesterr. Waffenfabr.- Ges. Steyr'

Thanks again,

Tom P.

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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1650
Loc: Finland
Re: New member, own a puzzling Steyr M-S, could use some help! [Re: tomPorter]
      #278891 - 06/03/16 04:31 PM

The caliber is probably 8x57 IS, that's because Iīm quite sure Steyr didn't make any MS rifle with longer action in 8x56 MS.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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pappa
.224 member


Reged: 09/01/16
Posts: 26
Loc: Florida
Re: New member, own a puzzling Steyr M-S, could use some help! [Re: Igorrock]
      #278893 - 06/03/16 06:15 PM

I believe one has to trim and set the shoulder back to make 8x56 M-S (not rimmed!) from 8x57. If true, then 8x56 chamber would be too short to chamber an 8x57.
If you have fired cases from when you shot it before, just use a mike and compare to unfired cases. Or fire one shot of same cartridge and use it for comparison.
8x56 base and "rim" are .465, .470 and .470, .473 for the 8x57.
Good luck. Beautiful rifle - you did good. Pat

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tomPorter
.224 member


Reged: 01/03/16
Posts: 5
Loc: New York
Re: New member, own a puzzling Steyr M-S, could use some help! [Re: pappa]
      #278911 - 07/03/16 02:16 AM

Thanks for all the replies!

Pappa has hit on a naive question I have: will 8x57 Mouser even chamber in an unaltered 8x56 M-S breech? (The answer seems to be 'No' unless I used a hammer.)

Having said that, I have loaded Pachmayer anodized aluminum snap caps in 8mm Mouser into the rifle and found no scratches or marks on the snapcap after ejecting from the breech. If 8x57 Mauser would require pressure to chamber, then I would expect to see marks on the snap caps.

Igorrock, I am speculating that it is the longer action rifle, do not know it for certain. I hope I did not mislead you. I got that idea from a fact sheet from the Mannlicher Collectors Association, assuming that it was 8x57 of some kind, so if it is 8x56 M-S, then the 1908 identification is on target.

Thanks all!

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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1650
Loc: Finland
Re: New member, own a puzzling Steyr M-S, could use some help! [Re: tomPorter]
      #278912 - 07/03/16 03:29 AM

I have had one MS 1908 in caliber 8x56 MS. That rifle didnīt accept any 8x57IS shell but there has been some example which had. If yours rifle has built in 1930, I think it is Mod.1924/25. It was first model which Steyr made in 8x57IS. One good hallmark for Mod.1924/25 is magazine well lenght which is appr. 3,75" i.e. 0,2" longer than these earlier models have.



--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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Kano
.300 member


Reged: 09/07/03
Posts: 166
Loc: East Africa
Re: New member, own a puzzling Steyr M-S, could use some help! [Re: Igorrock]
      #283081 - 29/05/16 05:22 PM

I remember reading that the Austrian proof house used to measure cartridge case from the rim to the case mouth. The number is clearly 56, and in this case the 56 1/2 would indicate what everybody else calls 57.

If it feeds and chambers a 8x57 JS, then this closes the question...

--------------------
Philip

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Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2446
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: New member, own a puzzling Steyr M-S, could use some help! [Re: Kano]
      #283083 - 29/05/16 09:00 PM

The longer Model 1924/1925 also has a different bolt release lever to a Model 1908 and was no longer produced in 8x56MS, only 8x57JS. A view of the left side of the action should help in identifying.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2446
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: New member, own a puzzling Steyr M-S, could use some help! [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #283091 - 30/05/16 06:22 AM

I had a look this morning in two Mannlicher catalogues, a 1929 and a 1935 and neither offer the 8x57JS for sale, only the 8x56MS and the 8x60S. This is contrary to what the Mannlicher collectors association lists on their website.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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