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500Boswell
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Loc: Queensland
Pedersoli Sharps ?
      #278308 - 22/02/16 07:54 PM

Hello ,
Does anyone own a Pedersoli Sharps [in any config] what you think of it, accuracy ,build quality,calibre etc
Thanks

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DarylS
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #278330 - 23/02/16 04:26 AM

One of the local cowboy action fellows had his new Pedersoli Sharps in .45/70 at the club on Saturday.
He was testing loads using commercial 405gr. Cast bullets and SR4759 powder.

His first three shots at 100 meters off bags went in just under 2" with the factory iron sights, 24.0 or 26.0gr. IIRC.
I did notice the small firing pin indents, which is good & means these rifles do not have the huge BP firing pins.

It seemed to me to not be as finely made or finished as the C.Sharps Arms or Shiloh Arms Model 74 Sharps. That is the only "negative" I can attribute to them.

The block's spring seemed excessively strong as well, but I have read these rifles are competitive in BPCR events.

The Rolling Block a buddy of mine shoots in .45 2.4" by Pedersoli, however was very nicely done - I was impressed with it.

sentence correction about firing pin

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (24/02/16 02:30 AM)

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500Boswell
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
      #278362 - 23/02/16 06:51 PM

Thankyou Daryl_S
Cheers

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DarylS
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #278372 - 24/02/16 02:31 AM

Welcome - I edited my post about the firing pin.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
      #278378 - 24/02/16 11:44 AM

I have had several of them. They are good shooters. They are one half the cost of a C Sharps but they don't look any were as good.

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500Boswell
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
      #278395 - 24/02/16 03:59 PM

Thanks Wayne ,
Pedersolis are reasonably priced ,by the time you try to import a C.Sharps or Shiloh into Aus your looking at 5 to 6k AUS$ ,then the wait to build,[more than double the price of a Pedersoli here ] then another wait for the import ,Forbes Wholesale have several in stock and more coming in April ,maybe the Pedersolis finish is more in keeping with the original Sharps finish ? maybe, just a thought .anyway will have a look at getting one
Thanks again for the info
Cheers

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DarylS
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #278420 - 25/02/16 04:37 AM

The big plus is availability and cost, of course. They seem to be good shooters.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
      #278433 - 25/02/16 07:32 AM

You may want to look carefully at the bore on any Pedersoli you buy. They have been shipping some crap out of there plant. The last one I bought has chatter marks all the way down both barrels. I don't know weather it is a exception to the rule but I have heard others complain about quality. It is a shame. They used to make some pretty nice guns. Plan on trashing the sights and adding a set of Kelly's to it. The Original sights arn't very repeatable.

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500Boswell
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
      #278440 - 25/02/16 08:27 AM

Thanks for the tip on the barrels Wayne ,a fellow i know bought a 45/120 and he said the barrel wasnt screwed on properly and the sights were canted at an angle ,sometimes i think the Manufactures know they can dump the ''Parts bin Specials '' overseas because they will never see them again, and most likely wont ever be returned ,same with motor vehicles etc

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Wayne59
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #278453 - 25/02/16 12:19 PM

If you can find one of the Chiappa Sharps long range Creedmoore's for sale in your country take a close look at it. They are one nice rifle for the money. Same goes for the sights on these but the rest of the rifle is first rate. The only other draw back is they only make these in one caliber (45/70). Not that there is anything wrong with 47/70.

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500Boswell
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
      #278461 - 25/02/16 04:34 PM

Not sure if they are available here ,the importer and gunshop here that does import Chiappa ,doesnt answer emails or return phone calls so they are just a waste of space and evidently dont want or need the business

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DarylS
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 500Boswell]
      #278477 - 26/02/16 01:34 AM

The Ladder rear sight on the Pedersoli Sharps I saw, was a VERY poor 'rendition' of the original ladder sight. The spring (body design) did not work to hold the sight's ladder upright. Very sloppy. I bought one of those ladder sights from Brownells for my new Winchester Model 1876 & it's beautiful - even nicer than my original Sharps ladder sight that is on my modified 68.
I'll try to find the link for you - they retail $169.95? at Brownells - same price at Buffalo Arms, but the Brownell's sights are more nicely made with detents between range numbers for positive stops.

Here it is:

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/sights/rear-sights/m-95-long-range-sight-prod18599.aspx

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
      #278484 - 26/02/16 11:44 AM

I replaced the sights on my Chiappa with Kelly soul sights. My old eyes need all the help they can get. Two of my C Sharps (45/70 and 50/90) have full length telescopic sights. Its kind of cheating but at least I can hit were I am aiming. The Shilo Sharps is a carbine With a rear latter sight like Daryl mentioned But I am not very accurate with it.

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DarylS
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
      #278485 - 26/02/16 12:47 PM

This rear sight, the one that was on my .50/70 Carbine, is now on my .45 2.9" Sharps last picture, a slightly reworked Italian M68 Sharps (in the white) action I draw-filed, polished and had finished in a commercial "Metaloy" process.
In the 35" GM barreled Sharps,a s pictured below with this rear ladder sight and silver blade front sight, I did manage 1 1/2 inches groups for 2, 3-shot groups using smokeless powder and 505gr. Gas/checked bullets with 42.0gr. Benchmark powder, my brother on the spotting scope, spotting both groups. He was rather surprised, as was I for such rudimentary sighting. Just lucky, I guess. After the first group, he said they are a little high - aim at 6 o'cock on the bull for the next group. I did, ending up with 2, 1-1/2" groups for the 6 shots. Of course, this really doesn't mean much as they were only 3 shot group.

: top pictures - carbine barrel w/sight




Bottom picture .45 1.9" chamber with 35", GM heavy 3 1/2 taper barrel. Rifle weight 12.5 pounds.



--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
      #278490 - 26/02/16 02:20 PM

My 45/70 C Sharps has the action finished in french gray. I have always thought this attractive. This is a very early manufactured gun by C Sharps. I have never shot a smokeless load in any of my sharps. That load you have looks to be a very good load.

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DarylS
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
      #278502 - 27/02/16 03:03 AM

My rifle certainly seems to like it. With it's huge BP firing pin, there has never been any trouble with pressure.
Benchmark in 48.0gr. load behind the 405gr. RP jacketed flat point produced 1,850fps in my rifle. As my rifle has a 3/8" leade or freebore, it loads as a normal .45/70, for overall length, thus I crimp in the bottom groove with a modified Lee factory crimp tool. I had to modify it as my case is only 1.9" long.

My long time but now passed away buddy Brad was on the scope watching. I had a Soule tang sight and globed aperture on the front. 10 consecutive shots off bags at 100 meters went 7/8" with the 405's and Benchmark. Incredible group, just an almost round hole 1.3" across.

Admittedly, I cannot see as well today, as I did those 6 years ago, but the rifle does shoot well still, with either sets of sights.

Benchmark, good load. Hodgdon's lists that 48.0gr. load in the max. column for low strength .45/70's with cast 405's at 1,695fps and 22,600CUP. They also list other loads to 28,000CUP, but not with cast bullets. The highest pressure listed with cast bullets are a couple load with 300gr. cast producing 24,700 and 24,900CUP using IMR3031 and Benchmark- making mid 1,900fps from a 24" bl.

Those speeds about duplicate the .450 BPE, seems to me.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
      #278509 - 27/02/16 12:25 PM

My barrel lengths run from 30" to 34". I am running 535 gr cast bullets through the 45/70 and 650gr bullets through the 50/90. I tried a Duplex loading in one off the 45s and it pushed the 535gr to a little over 1400 fps. I haven't chronographed the 50. I am going to try a duplex load in it. they burn a lot cleaner and push the velocity up about 100 fps. I haven't shoot any of the sharps much even though I have had some of them for over 15 years.

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DarylS
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
      #278533 - 28/02/16 04:02 AM

About duplex loading - many years ago I read an article about using IMR3031 as the smokeless powder in duplex loading, so I tested that method.

In the .45 2.1" Hoch bl. and then my .50 Alaskan McGowen bl. (after removing the .45 barrel) on the rolling block (at that time - 1980's)

I used 10 and 15gr. respectively of 3031, the rest of the space filled with 2f GOEX - but 10gr. & 15 less than the normal BP loads.

Accuracy was much improved and as Wayne noted and they shot quite cleanly.

As to the accuracy exactly, the accuracy with the IMR3031 in the duplex loading was better than when using SR4759 or Unique, the other smokeless powders I had used in duplex loads since the mid 70's.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
      #278538 - 28/02/16 06:45 AM

I used 5744 for the last loads. Please note for anyone wanting to try this 10 to 15% of smokeless is were you want to be. 10% gets me a clean burn and an additional 100 fps. Your percentage is calculated by using the weight of black powder BY VOLUME and multiplying by 10%. Example 60gr (by volume) x 10% =6grs. Deduct the 6grs from the 60grs and your charge would then be 54grs Bp by volume and 6grs (you can weigh the 6grs) of smokeless powder. Start low and work your way up. I know this sounds simplistic for most of us But the volume measurement of the black powder is important especially in large cases. Just like using Bp loads make sure there is no air space left in the case. Daryl have you ever tried a duplex load in anything as large as a 577x3".

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DarylS
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
      #278563 - 28/02/16 04:06 PM

I should have noted that, Wayne - the 10% max. has always been suggested form the early 1970s to today, for the fast burning powders used in duplex loads - such as 5744 and 4759.

With the slower burners such as the noted '3031, more than 10% was needed to get good ignition and clean burning - as per the article - they worked well for me.

The largest ctg. I have ever loaded for, was the 30" .50 3 1/4" in a Shiloh Sharps, M74. I thought this was before I read about the use of IMR3031 in duplex loadings - but as I developed a smokeless load for that rifle with the 550gr. cast bullet using IMR3031 (1,775fps irrc)- with a case topped off with KAPOK from a old life preserver/flotation device, I'm probably remembering using 3031 in that rifle for duplex loading as well. Now that I think about it, I probably used 15.0gr. in the duplex load in that rifle as well as the .50 Alaskan.

I also recall that at that time (Shiloh .50 3 1/4"), I had some ICI 1F powder (still have 1/4 pound) that was exceptionally dense/heavy. I had read that Elmer Keith had said they should have named that case, the .50-170-700. Many laughed at him for this statement.
My 3 1/4" .50 Bell cases actually held 170gr. of that powder with a 550gr. cast RCBS bullet. Though dense, it was a poor quality powder of the late 70's, early 80's, the velocities it produced were lower than 140gr. 2f GOEX, also a not very good powder, back then - I do remember that ICI in 170gr. load sure kicked even though I had a nice wide Neidner butt plate on the rifle.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
      #278598 - 29/02/16 03:51 AM

I fired the double rifle that I am building today. This has sure turned into a project. It is a 577x3" bp gun. Case holds 160grs of ffg and a 600gr cast bullet. Went off without a hitch. first rounds close to regulation. Proof tested it with the same 160gr charge and a 750gr bullet. I will be trying a duplex load next. Only got 1369 fps with straight bp was hoping for closer to 1600fps. I may be dreaming.

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DarylS
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
      #278600 - 29/02/16 04:10 AM

Seems to me the velocities were 'supposed' to be closer to 1,600fps with the 650gr. 'top-end' load.

You may have to try Swiss 1 1/2F powder - which will get the speeds up a bit.
GOEX Old Enysford might be another choice for testing.

In that large case, I'd be tempted to try the 3031 or 4895 for the duplex, in 15gr. to 20gr. weight - it certainly isn't as volatile as the faster powders and may be of more help in this instance. I would also load as much BP as I could over the smokeless 'kicker' to create a compressed load with the bullet or top wad- say 1/10" compression. You don't want to compress the powder enough to 'meal' it.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wayne59
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: DarylS]
      #278605 - 29/02/16 05:01 AM

I have some of the Old Enysford powder I may have to try it. I may also have to switch to a magnum primer to help light this much black powder. I thought of that after i fired the gun this morning.

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3DogMike
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: Wayne59]
      #278614 - 29/02/16 10:26 AM

Wayne, this is drifting some from the original intent of the thread, however:
I get 1650'/sec out of my 24" Jeffery .577 3 1/4" BPE with 178 grains (6 1/2 Dram) 650 woodleigh soft point. This with 100% Swiss 1 1/2F and Fed 215 Mag primer.
This is pretty much equal to the specs from the old days.
You did not mention what brand of black you were using?

As you know, every barrel is different. Try Swiss 1 1/2 and a Fed215 primer.
- Mike

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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Wayne59
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Re: Pedersoli Sharps ? [Re: 3DogMike]
      #278615 - 29/02/16 10:54 AM

I had noticed that we are moveing away from the thread. The area I live in is devoid of black powder. the only way I can get it is buy the case. I have a case of Goex and a one pound of the Old Enysford and a couple of pounds of Elephant.

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