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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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DarylS
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Re: 8,5x63 ? [Re: Paul]
      #171592 - 18/11/10 04:15 AM

We're off topic - pm sent - sorry John.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Dr_Deer
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Re: 8,5x63 ? [Re: DarylS]
      #173119 - 14/12/10 10:30 PM

Quote:

I used to run 2,940fps with 140gr. Noslers in both of my standard 7mm Mausers in a BRNO (24") & Ruger #1(22") - another good round and at least the equal of the .270.

The .280 should add another 100fps to the 7 Mauser - perhaps 150fps.



140g at 2940?

Admittedly my experience with the 7x57 is with the 7x57R but I believe your loading a wee touch on the hot side there my friend. Funnily enough though O'Conners coments about the .270 pertained to similarly hot loads - 130g at 3200fps which is now the realm of WSM factory fodder.

Does the 7x57 equal and surpass the .270? bit hard to tell if you compare hotrod handloads to current factory rounds and vice versa. What leaves me scratching my head is the last fellow I heard espouse this position doesn't own a chrony...

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 8,5x63 ? [Re: Dr_Deer]
      #272656 - 05/11/15 08:03 AM

Re-opening this topic to see if anyone has any experience with the cartridge, in particular how does it perform with the light for calibre projectiles, say 100 gr to 165 gr?

In particular how the barrel twist copes with a 105 gr projectile and still is reported as doing well with a 300 gr projectile.

ie the 8.5x63. Not all the discussions on .270's and 7mm's.

Thanks.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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DarylS
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Re: 8,5x63 ? [Re: NitroX]
      #272671 - 05/11/15 03:12 PM

Generally speaking, if bullets are spun faster than needed for their length, somewhat mistakenly called (I have read) overstabilization, they tend to go to sleep and fly well a bit further out than normal, is all. That is, they might shoot tighter groups at 200 or perhaps even 300yards, than they do at 100yards or 150yards. Much experimentation would have to be done to show anything definite, I's think.

This would not normally be a problem as they are meant for further out shooting, are they not?.

OK - case in point, is shooting 40gr.HP .224's out of a 7 1/2" twist .223, meant for 85 and 90gr. bullets. Most of the guys say they shoot 1/2" or better at 100yards and are much more violent in expansion on rats than if shot from more normal 14" to 16" twists which are better suited for 40gr.HP .224's.

In the .338 calibre, a twist that will stabilize a 300gr., say a 10" twist, is not as radical a change as are the twists mentioned in the .224 example. Since a normal twist in the .338 would be 10" or 12" which is still pretty fast concerning a 105gr. bullet. I did not know such light bullets were available in that calibre. I did know of the 165 and 185gr. by Barnes, and those are longer than a cup and core bullet would be of the same weight, of course.

As far as 2,940fps being hot for a 7x57 - sure is, but the brass did not mind, nor did the rifles, all showing normal pressures. Were they above SAAMI - Definitely. Above CIP - probably there too as the CIP max is only 57,000psi. The 6MM rem, brass I used in my 7x57's as they stores were out of 7MM Mauser brass, is rated at 65,000PSI in those rifles. Thus, the same rifles chambered for the 7x57 are fully capable, as is the brass in handling that "normal" pressure for that round.

Was I loading to 65,000PSI - I do not know, but never had a sticky case, nor loosened a primer with those loads.

The fellows who have those rifles now are still using my original brass and loading those rifles to 2,720fps with 160gr. TSX in the BRNO and 2,940fps with 140gr Partitions in the Ruger #1.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: 8,5x63 ? [Re: DarylS]
      #272681 - 05/11/15 08:12 PM

Quote:

... a 105gr. bullet. I did not know such light bullets were available in that calibre. I did know of the 165 and 185gr. by Barnes, and those are longer than a cup and core bullet would be of the same weight, of course.



I don't know of these very light bullets other than from the links of bullets and ballistics earlier in this thread.

Really I could not see going lighter than a 150 or 165 gr projectile in a cartridge like this. Which could be useful for feral game and lighter medium game.

It is possible that the originator was thinking of obtaining "super magnum" velocities for his cartridge for small game. A fox is shown in a photo. Or for chamois/gams where some think a flat shooting light bullet is useful.

Provided a light bullet did not "explode" on impact, one could be useful for roos.

Quote:

As far as 2,940fps being hot for a 7x57 ....



Mate, lets keep this thread on the 8.5 mm and not go off on lots of off topic replies on .270s and 7mms.

Daryl, thanks for your experienced replies on ballistics etc. Always a great resource on NE.

I have been looking at changing my mind on this calibre and whether an M03 barrel would be useful and cool. Was thinking of a 9.3x62 barrel but maybe an 8.5mm would be more versatile. Maybe a .375 barrel, that .375 Westley Richards cartridge really looked cool. Always so many choices.

I noted Mauser does now mention custom chamberings and barrel configurations on their website for M03 barrels and have an enquiry to them currently re the 6.5x68. If so, would have a 6.5x65 barrel for sale.

Of course I still have a dream of a full custom .318 Westley Richards, but not going to happen to get it started for some time. Still have the "tiger" walnut blank though.

Now I have gone off topic too.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DarylS
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Re: 8,5x63 ? [Re: NitroX]
      #272710 - 06/11/15 03:45 AM

SRY - it happens - someone asks a question and I am compelled/driven to respond - LOL. I'll try not to let it happen again.

When I built up my current .375/06IMP, I was sorrily tempted to go .338/x62 (already an improved case) - big range of bullets, from 165 to 300, and I was thinking a 185 TSX or TTSX and a 300gr. RN would handle all requirements as a hunting that would span the globe.

The lighter bullets for fast, flat shooting within normal ranges at all game up to moose and elk and the 300gr. smasher at about 2,400fps would be perfect for all bush shooting and especially the big bears or with both 'softs' and 'solids' if that requirement ever happened for me - ie: Africa.

I changed my mind at the last moment as a friend had me barrel up an '03/98' cross action with a King barrel in .375/06 IMP (78gr. capacity) and I immediately ordered one for my self. That is the same capacity I measured myself from a pair of 9.3x62 factory Sako cases, fired in a Styer rifle. Thus, the .338 calibre has eluded me - so far. I am still holding the desire on the back burner and have an action that will be perfect for it, the afor-mentioned 03/98 cross, given to me by the lad I initially barreled up the .375 for. He'd gone blind in his right eye, switched to left handed and I put his barrel onto a Ruger Left action for him.

This same 78gr. case would be perfect for a .338 and better than the various 'standard' '06 IMP's. This round's base is a full .470" with a .460" shoulder (Arch?), .005" taper per side, not .470" X .454" shoulder, .008" taper per side and the standard longer neck reducing the capacity to about 72gr.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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fsrmg1
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Re: 8,5x63 ? [Re: Paul]
      #275663 - 26/12/15 10:47 AM

Just get a 9.3x62mm if you want proven performance from an '06 case size. If that is not enough for you, there is always the 9.3x66mm Sako round.

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Cheers,

Rich

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DarylS
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Re: 8,5x63 ? [Re: fsrmg1]
      #275689 - 27/12/15 05:02 AM

Concerning your thoughts on a light bullet of only 105gr. while still working with a 300gr., there is no valid reason a 10" twist would not do that.
I expect some rifles will do very well, while some do not like lighter bullets.
The same break or huge swing in bullet weights for calibre occur in the .223 ctg. Some twists as fast as 7 1/2", meant for very long .224" bullets, but the lads with those rifles, not only use them with 85 and 90gr. bullet for 1,000 yard plinking, but for shooting gophers with 40gr. Hp's or plastic tipped bullets.

Many guns seem to handle gross overstabilization (if there is such an actual thing) of their projectiles, but understabilization is not tolerated - at all.

Fair to say, they probably shoot will with the range of projectiles you mentioned.

On the other hand, when bullet are spun too quickly for their make-up, they tend to break up in the air before contact with the intended target or they disintegrate upon any contact - like little bombs. Witness our very frangible varmint bullets that cannot cope or hold together simply hitting grass or hay stalks.
Surely a 108gr. bullet in .338" diameter MUST be a varmint-type bullet, meant for approaching extreme velocities for disruptive performance on small game. Due to their light weights, they must be very short, close range bullets designed for very shallow penetration.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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