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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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AbitNutz
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Reged: 02/09/12
Posts: 58
Loc: Ohio, USA
Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70
      #274229 - 28/11/15 09:53 PM

Yes, I know this thing is as artistic as a manure shovel but it's likely the only double rifle I'll ever be able to own...and even this thing is not super cheap.

I'm just looking for a double rifle experience and some fun. I reload 45/70 and cast bullets so it's gong to be cheap to shoot...assuming it is as amusing to shoot as I hope.

Anyone have experience with it? Or opinions? Be kind....

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Postman
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: AbitNutz]
      #274230 - 28/11/15 10:53 PM

I have a family member that bought one. It provides all manner of fun for him. He too is a big reloader/cast bullet guy. Regulation required a good deal of experimentation and tinkering, but he worked it down to less than minute of pie plate at 100 yards. The stock shape is a little unforgiving in the recoil dept and the trigger pull is not the best. Fit and finish is on the crude side as well, but one MUST keep things in context. The gun cost him somewhere around the $1000 Canadian mark, which is worth about 12 cents USD at today's currency exchange rates. :-)

I think that this gun is a great double play thing that gets one into the game for relatively little money. A mainstream Euro double entry level gun such as a Merkel or Chapuis will set you back ten times the cost. The Bakail on the other hand may make you curse if it starts to rain and you accidentally drop it in a muddy ditch, but you probably won't feel like a child abuser like you would if you did this to a much more expensive double.

Go forth and play, have a tremendous amount of fun, but do keep expectations in check.

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crshelton
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: Postman]
      #274233 - 29/11/15 01:12 AM

Postman - well said.
I too have friends and contacts that have fun with the Baikal -70. It seems to be the least costly entry level double rifle and the .45-70 cartridge is plenty effective on big game in North America.

--------------------
CRS,NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/

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Iowa_303s
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: crshelton]
      #274235 - 29/11/15 03:31 AM

Postman said it well.
I did have one of these for a while.
Once you figure out how the "regulation" wheel between the the ribs works accuracy was pretty good.
The fit of the parts was actually pretty good, the finish was durable and evenly applied.
Recoil was brisk, the stock shape is not great for handling recoil but it does have a fairly soft rubber butt pad.
I paid $800 (used) for mine a few years ago and it came with a scope mound and an Aimpoint attached.
The stock way to low to really use optics but was good with the irons.
340 grain cast bullets worked great. Never did shoot a jacketed bullet through it.
I sold the rifle because I just did not like the looks and feel.
I sold it for $800 without the Aimpoint.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"

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DarylS
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #274237 - 29/11/15 04:58 AM

The one I looked at, seem to suggest remodeling the stock to make it much better. Changing the stock shape or replacement would be my first move, even before shooting it - maybe?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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AbitNutz
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Reged: 02/09/12
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: DarylS]
      #274249 - 29/11/15 08:46 AM

They're running about $900 to $1000 or so now...if one can be found. Most seem to be in excellent t new condition. No doubt due to the recoil.

Fortunately I'm not recoil sensitive. Possibly because I've been knocked insensible more than a few times.

I have a Ruger No.1 in 450-400 Nitro Express. A Lyman 1878-Pedersoli Sharps 1877 that was originally in 45/70 that I had it rechambered in 450 Nitro Express. A Siamese Mauser in 45/70 and last but not the least of my big bores is a Winchester-Miroku 1885 in 375 H&H.

They will all kick the $hit out of you but so far the Winchester 1885 in 375 H&H wins.

We'll see if it stays on top. I'm waiting to set up a meeting to look at/buy the Baikal. If it's in as good a condition as he claims, I'll drop a grand on it.

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zgunbear
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Reged: 25/06/15
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: DarylS]
      #274250 - 29/11/15 08:49 AM

I like mine after I found a load it likes it is accurate enough for deer and hogs out to 100 yards. The gentlemen who owned it before me added lead to the stock it helps with the kick some. Mine has a nice piece of wood. It is a fun rifle always get a few onlookers at the range

--------------------
I have a 30-06 and a 45-70 side by side rifle by Baikal. I also modified a 12 gauge side by side into a slug gun. My problem has always been champagne and caviar tastes on a generic diet coke and fritos budget.

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TonyD227
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Reged: 09/07/15
Posts: 105
Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: zgunbear]
      #274253 - 29/11/15 09:12 AM

I owned one and was not happy with the synch of the barrels

With the wheel I could get them right on top of one another but the elevation was out by over 10/15cm at 50M

The best groups I could get (still over 10cm out)were with 405gr cast projectiles over 13gr of Trail Boss.

I took it to a gun smith but he couldn't do anything for it. I got no love from the importer who bought them into Australia. I think a new importer has the licence now?

I get the feeling that the issue with them is consistency, there isn't any.

If your going to buy one make sure you do it from a reputable seller who will take it back if it is beyond the pale.

I have to admit however that it was fun to shoot (the guys were right, with heavier loads it kicks like a mule) and it got me hooked on DR shooting and started me reloading (that was necessary to find a load that worked).

I now have a Sabatti in 45-70 and it is chalk and cheese, as you would expect for a rifle more than 5 times the price.

If you have always wanted to own and shoot a DR and you can afford it buy the Baikal and have fun. Just don't expect to much and you wont be disappointed and may even be pleasantly surprised.

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.

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AbitNutz
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #274254 - 29/11/15 09:23 AM

If the barrels can be made to shoot together I would have thought that the gunsmith could have made the front sight higher or lower to get the elevation right.

Either way, I think it will be a riot to shoot this thing and play with getting the loads right.

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TonyD227
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: AbitNutz]
      #274255 - 29/11/15 09:26 AM

Sorry poor explanation by me.

The left barrel would hit the 10 ring at 50 m and the right barrel would be 10/15cm above it. The two individual barrels would also group well but you just couldn't bring the two together.

I have seen and heard reports of much better, maybe I was just unlucky

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.

Edited by TonyD227 (29/11/15 09:28 AM)

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AbitNutz
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Reged: 02/09/12
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #274262 - 29/11/15 03:10 PM

That would be a maddening situation.

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8X57
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: AbitNutz]
      #274272 - 30/11/15 02:16 AM

Hi AbitNutz

I have seen plenty of pictures and read a few articles about the Baikal but have neither handled or fired one so I my comments are not as educated as others have posted on this thread.

What I would say is double rifles can be both a pleasure and a PITA to own. They are always a challenge. However when you have put the required time in to getting them shooting correctly then, as many on this forum would agree with, there is nothing more enjoyable to hunt with than a Double.

It (the Baikal) may be as "artistic as a manure shovel" to start with but the hours you will "enjoy" getting it to shoot right and then maybe doing a stock job on it (maybe only refinishing but maybe a new stock etc) will create connection which only those sad old boys like us DR fanatics can appreciate.

The biggest problem you will then face is when your wife says she is not prepared to share the bed with it!!!

Double rifles eh? !

Best

Ade

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3595
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: 8X57]
      #275089 - 14/12/15 10:28 PM

Try not to laugh too loud, but I recently bought back the one I had previously owned for a while. I needed cash quick for a couple of back-to-back opportunities a few years ago (.577 Webley screw-grip and a nitro Paradox were two of them!) and the Baikal was one of several items I liquidated at the time.

I had initially intended to lay ribs and fit decent sights, but it shot quite well with all the loads I put through it, although the occasional unexplained flier was a consistent inconsistency...! Fixed ribs would sort that out I'm sure.

So now I can get on with it! Well, next year some time....

Here is a previous thread with my post buried there somewhere, including a couple of pics:

Mods to a Baikal .45-70

So you will gather, AbitNutz, that I rather like the Baikal for what it is. 'Manure shovel' is a bit harsh IMHO, but I will concede a 'Sow's Ear'.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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crkennedy1
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: Marrakai]
      #275454 - 22/12/15 10:31 AM

AbitNutz, if you are serious about getting a Baikal double, I have two that are NIB in both the 45-70 and 30-06. Mine are both branded by Remington - you can't hardly find these anymore. As for looking like crap, I beg to differ. Just because you didn't pay an arm and a leg for your gun doesn't qualify it as junk.
Both of my rifles are beautiful. I even have Remington cases for both of them. If you are serious about getting one, PM me and we can talk in more detail.



--------------------
DOUBLE or NOTHING

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: crkennedy1]
      #275520 - 23/12/15 04:13 PM

No need to feel hesitant about the Baikals at all. French Master Gunmaker Christian Ducros uses them as a basis for some of his very high priced customs. They are tough and last a long time, and you should be able to get your Baikal prettied up in the future, if you feel like it. Best wishes, and good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #275526 - 23/12/15 04:37 PM

Quote:

No need to feel hesitant about the Baikals at all. French Master Gunmaker Christian Ducros uses them as a basis for some of his very high priced customs. They are tough and last a long time, and you should be able to get your Baikal prettied up in the future, if you feel like it. Best wishes, and good hunting!



Mehul

Do you have any examples of his rifles? I have to say it souunds like buying a piece of crap, and spending lots of money to make the piece of crap look a bit better, ending up with a pretty piece of crap ...

Not knocking buying a Baikal as an affordable rifle, just the "logic" of possibly spending a lot of money to pretty one up ...

Interested in seeing what the Master does with them.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Nailcreek
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Loc: Saukville, WI, USA
Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: NitroX]
      #275702 - 28/12/15 09:21 AM

I've been following this thread ... are there any issues with the 45/70 double, other than quirky regulation?

--------------------
Veni, Vedici, Veggie ... I came, I saw, I had a salad.

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Wayne59
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: Nailcreek]
      #275704 - 28/12/15 10:05 AM

The ones i saw are as ugly as a mud puddle but are built like a tank. For a grand what more could you want.

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Marrakai
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: Wayne59]
      #275707 - 28/12/15 10:28 AM

Clearly, "ugly" is in the eye of the beholder!
The "manure shovel" or "mud puddle" in my gun-safe looks like this:



What crKennedy1 said: For a no-frills fun-gun in a cheap-as-chips chambering at 2% to 5% of the cost of any pre-owned Brit .450 nitro double, I'm stuffed if I can understand why anyone would baulk at adding one of these things to their toybox.

With minor mods to the sights and a bit of simple trigger work, they can become a very useful woods rifle for those who enjoy hunting with a SxS but are reluctant to subject their treasures to the occasional inclemency of the great outdoors.

..and No! I don't have shares in EAA.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Nailcreek
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: Marrakai]
      #275795 - 30/12/15 11:33 AM

Found one for sale at Cabelas (at a reasonable price) ... looks like I might join the ranks in a few weeks

Are scope rings available?

Edited by Nailcreek (30/12/15 11:35 AM)

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AkMike
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: Nailcreek]
      #275829 - 31/12/15 01:36 AM

IIRC 11 mm base rings from airguns are used. The base should be with the rifle. Do a search to confirm this though.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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DarylS
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: AkMike]
      #275836 - 31/12/15 03:01 AM

Some stock work in the pistol grip-cap area would go a long way to improving the looks of the butt stock.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TonyD227
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: Nailcreek]
      #275853 - 31/12/15 07:21 AM

Quote:

Found one for sale at Cabelas (at a reasonable price) ... looks like I might join the ranks in a few weeks

Are scope rings available?



You can also get a purpose made mount and rings from Baikal.

http://www.rpgfirearms.com.au/HI%20RES/BAIKAL%20MOUNTS.jpg

http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=St...=p2047675.m4099

--------------------
When to much recoil is just not enough.

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Nailcreek
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: TonyD227]
      #275868 - 31/12/15 10:13 AM

Thanks for the tips about the scope mounts and rings. I had read somewhere that high end 11mm air rifle mounts and rings would work as well.

Interestingly enough, I did take a quick look at Boyds to see if alternative stocks were available ... apparently the price point of Baikal guns precludes aftermarket wood!

Daryl, I'm kind of interested in your opinion as to the stock shape - any suggestions? I've also heard that someone filled the butt with lead to add some weight to try and tame the recoil a bit - and a new butt pad as well.

It looks like the rifle will be available sometime next week or weekend. More news, hopefully, to come.

Kerry

--------------------
Veni, Vedici, Veggie ... I came, I saw, I had a salad.

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DarylS
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Re: Baikal Double Rifle in 45/70 [Re: Nailcreek]
      #275893 - 01/01/16 03:15 AM

Check through the Double Gun photo archive for pictures. Either a straight grip with re-checkering, or a grip cap, not a combination of the two patterns like they've put on that stock.

For me, it's a poor looking stock design and done that way to cut costs - no hand work at all, all fast machine work.

Balancing out the rifle with some lead in the butt might help, but do not screw up the balance. Depends on what you want, quick handling, balancing at the barrel pivot, or slight muzzle heaviness for more accurate offhand shooting.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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