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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Federal-premiums-lead-muzzleloader-bullet/
      #271519 - 09/10/15 12:12 AM

http://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2...m_campaign=1015

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Federal-premiums-lead-muzzleloader-bullet/ [Re: Ripp]
      #271524 - 09/10/15 01:30 AM

LOL

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2100
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: Federal-premiums-lead-muzzleloader-bullet/ [Re: DarylS]
      #271526 - 09/10/15 01:41 AM

OKaaaaaaay.............so they want to sell us projectiles that cost $1.60 a shot that will not be as good as the same weight round ball cast from wheel weight metal that are close to free. I have shot clear through and out the other side of the chest of a large moose with my .600 round ball and cut off BOTH front shoulder bones while doing it. I have seen my 62 cal guns shoot clear through some large buffalo here in Wyoming and in Montana both. Balls were cast hard and shot from old fashioned cap-lock and flint lock guns. Folks that have not experienced many (or any)kills with muzzleloading rifles need to read "The Sporting Rifle and its Projectiles" by Lieut. James Forsyth before they spend their first dollar.

PT Barnum said it is wrong to allow a fool to keep his money.
Jesus said it is good to love and care for your fellow man.

One philosophy says sell anything to can for as much as you can and rip off any one you can.

The other philosophy says tell the truth and help others to learn and better themselves.
If I light your candle with my candle, it will not diminish the light of my candle.


Can we guess which philosophy Federal is following here?

Edited by szihn (09/10/15 01:52 AM)


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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Federal-premiums-lead-muzzleloader-bullet/ [Re: szihn]
      #271531 - 09/10/15 03:28 AM

Of course, Federal is no different from Remington, Barnes and all the companies (& people who promote this for profit) selling bullets and bolt action'd muzzleloading rifles.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ash
.400 member


Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: Australia
Re: Federal-premiums-lead-muzzleloader-bullet/ [Re: DarylS]
      #274099 - 26/11/15 11:57 PM

Those guns are ridiculous and a mockery to muzzleloading seasons IMO - outsider perspective.

Plus is really annoying trying to find good hunting videos on YouTube with "traditional" muzzleloaders. Most are those darned inline things.

Sabots, pistol bullets, bolt or break actions, stainless barrels and scopes! Nothing like "getting back to basics". I've even heard people say in videos with these very guns that it's "good to do it the traditional way"!! What's the point of it all?!

I just bought my first muzzleloader. A cheap used CVA "Hawken". It's gunna live on nothing but true black and round ball

Yes I know they're not proper hawkens, I saw Daryls post and thought I better add this disclaimer

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.

Edited by Ash (27/11/15 12:09 AM)


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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2100
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: Federal-premiums-lead-muzzleloader-bullet/ [Re: Ash]
      #274105 - 27/11/15 04:08 AM

I agree with you Ash.
The very idea of "archery" season and "Muzzleloader" season was to give a special season for those that wanted to use the weapons of earlier times to find the appreciation of hunting as it was known 160-400 years ago.
But......out come the marketeers that want to give those with special licenses a way to cheat the system and their fellow sportsmen. And unfortunately, human nature predictably will take advantage when it can in most cases.

As an example, if I want to hunt with an original breachloading sharps rifle, using paper cartridges, or a 4" 44 magnum revolver with iron sights, or an original Remington Rolling block rifle I can, but I have to hunt in the regular "rifle season" with them all.

But if I want to use a rifle (which loaded from the muzzle) fiberglass or plastic stock with a 16 power Nightforce scope, using an electronic ignition system, shooting the most modern projectiles known to the industry, in a 100% weather-proof rifle made of stainless steel, and sometimes using smokeless powder, it's ok for me to get a special license because I am "shouldering the extra challenge"
BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If I want to use a "bow" with space age technology shooting carbon fiber arrows with an optical sight and a trigger I can use this in the "archery season" because it's just as much a challenge as using a wood long bow with wood arrows, drawing and releasing the string with my fingers.....................right?
Again I cry BS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I am NOT against using these weapons for harvesting game. not at all. But I AM AGAINST THEM BEING ALLOWED A SPECIAL SEASON. I have killed game with flintlocks and with a long bow with wood arrows and I did so in the regular rifle seasons. In fact in my whole life I have only hunting 3 times in special seasons. Two times in "Archery season" and 1 time in "Muzzleloader season". All the rest of my game I have killed with with a (real) bow and arrow I have killed in regualr rifles season and every single animal I have killed with muzzleloaders I have killed in regular rifle season. So I can say I do know the difference. I have no interste at all in in-line muzzleloaders and even less in compound bows. But I am 100% for the use of them both as hunting weapons if hunters like them. I just wish the government would stop giving out special tags for their use. They are as modern as you can get, and therefore they should have to hunt with them in seasons for other modern weapons.

I have killed 26 different big game animals in my life with handguns. All were used with iron sights just as they left the factories. All were killed in "Rifle season"

Is there anyone that believes that it is harder to make a good hit on an animal with a plastic stocked, scoped, stainless, ultra modern rifles with a speed lock, and shooting smokeless powder (or even black powder for that matter) than it is to make the same hit with a 6" iron sighted revolver?

If not, why do the revolver hunters have to hunt with the modern rifle hunters, who may be using a 30-378 Weatherby or a 50 BMG? That is supposed to be "in the same class" so they license is the same.

But this gun can be used in a special season because "it's more challenging" ????
http://www.remington.com/pages/news-and-...zzleloader.aspx


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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Federal-premiums-lead-muzzleloader-bullet/ [Re: szihn]
      #274107 - 27/11/15 04:20 AM

I'm with Steve all the way. We lost out "Special Weapons Moose Hunt" here in BC due to the bolt action, scope sighted inlines.

Ash- your 1/2 stock plains-type rifle will work just fine.

Taylor is building a pair of news ones right now, a 1/2 stock late S. Hawken and an earlier cap-lock J&S full stock.

If your rifle has been used with any phony BP's, you may need to scrub the bore with a piece of Scotch Brite 'cloth' on a jag. Use a light oil like WD40 for lube.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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CowboyCS
.333 member


Reged: 05/10/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Kansas u.S.A.
Re: Federal-premiums-lead-muzzleloader-bullet/ [Re: DarylS]
      #274114 - 27/11/15 07:08 AM

This isn't directed at you daryl, I just clicked on your reply button.

szihn and I have had this discussion a few times since I was his apprentice so he knows where I stand but for the benefit of everybody else I'll restate my postion here;

What I hear, when I hear people complain about hunters who find a way to use an inline in "special muzleloader season", is they went to the gov't and asked for a privilidge and now they are upset that someone else found a way into their special privilidge.

Would you all be as happy if the modern inline owners lobbied for a special season that only inlines could be used in or would you be upset that they were trying to prevent "traditionalists" from hunting in their special inline season?

My actual positon on this and what I have been saying for years is, that we need to do away with all special seasons and allow hunters to use any weapon that provides a reliable humane kill. And I do mean any weapon... knife, spear, longbow, recurve, compound, atlatl, any variation of muzzleloader from the earliest to the latest and any cartridge firearm, et.al. The only criteria for these weapons should be that they be of sufficient ability to reliably penetrate the vital organs and provide for a humane kill. Any weapon you chose would be fine but everybody must hunt in the same season this way no one has a special privilidge that limits others, NO ENTITLEMENTS, everyone in the field at the same time. If you are a good hunter it shouldn't matter if modern rifle users are hunting at the same time you are using a kinfe, a bow or muzzleloader.

I personally don't own an inline rifle nor have I ever hunted with one but I don't have any problem with people who do own and use them finding ways to get them into other people's "special, privilidged, entitled" hunting season.

How about just being honest about not wanting anyone to infringe on your special privilidge that the gov't granted a bunch of whiners who lobbied louder than everyone else.

BTW, this is my current muzzleloading hunting rifle...non-traditional flintlock:
.62 caliber flintlock

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The Bill of Rights- Void were prohibited by law
Stolzer & Son's Gunsmithing

Edited by CowboyCS (27/11/15 07:24 AM)


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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Federal-premiums-lead-muzzleloader-bullet/ [Re: CowboyCS]
      #274125 - 27/11/15 09:38 AM

"How about just being honest about not wanting anyone to infringe on your special privilidge that the gov't granted a bunch of whiners who lobbied louder than everyone else."

OK - here it is - truthfully in all honesty.

I had nothing truely against the knight inlines (that's what there was back in the 80's). I thought they were ridiculous and stupid looking - still do. Those were my feelings until a wildlife officer told us, at our Primitive Hunt camp while having a coffee with us, that this was to be the last primitive weapons hunting season due to the bolt actioned, scoped muzzleloading rifles they now saw in most of the road hunters trucks.

He said - "This special weapons hunt was granted as a Primitive Hunt for people using what we considered to be primitive weapons - muzzleloaders or bows and arrows - not bolt actioned, scope sighted rifles that most of our guys can't tell from their Remington 700. Those things are not what we consider to be primitive weapons. Sorry guys, that's the way it is. If everyone was using guns like you guys - they are beautiful, by the way, the season would continue. You guys really know your stuff." - or words to that effect - that was 30 years ago.

On that hunt, I had my 14 bore cap-lock, while Brad was using his SXS Pedersoli Kodiak .58, also a cap-lock, also loaded with round ball while Taylor was using a nice 20 bore flinter of English flavour, again, loaded with round ball. He had built two of the three guns there.

That week, the thermometer did not get above -45F, indeed, it did get down to -50 or a bit lower with quite frosty sparkles in the air(from about -35 on down. That weather is VERY hard on rifle lock springs. Lukily for us, none broke, then then none of us got any shots at moose. It was bloody cold and really noisy crunching through the snow. We saw some nice mule deer bucks and several cow moose with the last spring's calves, but no bulls.
When it's that cold, they are moving and feeding most all day and all night, not laying down much, it seemed.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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