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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
The 7 shot wonder---Spencer rifle..bit of history
      #272598 - 04/11/15 01:59 AM

http://www.gunsandammo.com/historical/7-shot-wonder-the-spencer-repeating-rifle/

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: The 7 shot wonder---Spencer rifle..bit of history [Re: Ripp]
      #272601 - 04/11/15 06:35 AM

would like to load and shoot the spencer with handloaded rimfire ammo. its possible and would be a real challenge!

Koch mentioned in his book about hunting rifles 1891 that some Spencer were brought back by german soldiers from the french -german war of 1870/71 but I didn't find any hint that such rifles were used for hunting. iirc, there is an old story in COTW or the lyman blackpowder book about black bear hunting with a muzzle loader double rifle were one of the hunting mates had a spencer rifle.


french frank-tireurs with spencer rifles


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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
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bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (04/11/15 02:19 PM)

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: The 7 shot wonder---Spencer rifle..bit of history [Re: lancaster]
      #272608 - 04/11/15 09:37 AM

interesting..thank you for the info

I find it very fascinating reading about some of the old weapons and how they were used. On the TV show GUNS AND AMMO every week they come up with an older weapon and give the history of it..always interesting..Last night it was the Uzi..

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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DarylS
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Re: The 7 shot wonder---Spencer rifle..bit of history [Re: Ripp]
      #272610 - 04/11/15 10:01 AM

John Johnson, I have read, had a Spencer Hawken. That is a Spencer that went through the Samual Hawken shop in St. Louis for "sporterizing". It had a longer barrel - appeared to be 28" with 2 barrel keys and 1/2 stock forend and forend cap of pewter and a wiping stick with entry pipe and two rod pipes. It also had a "Hawken" style butt stock with hooked butt plate, all parts similar to the typical Hawken muzzleloading Mountain Rifle.

This 'sporterization' alone, should show some Spencers were used as hunting rifles, even though they were of low power, compared to other guns of the period, like the hall rifle. The only advantage of the Spencer, of course, was the speed it could distribute it's 7 rounds at close range.

One story about Johnson was such that he saw a young Crow Indian boy with this rifle, what he recognised as a Spencer-Hawken, or Hawken-Spencer that obviously was from the Hawken shop. This 'event' happened in a Crow Nation village he had been trading with.

The article stated Johnson figured the rifle would have the rapid fire of the Spencer, but power and accuracy of the Hawken muzzleloader, thus he killed the boy and took the rifle, and that this act alone this is why the Crow nation went after him. It is possible, but?

Personally, I think this story is BS, a story made up by someone attempting to justify in Johnson's (or their own) mind, this seemingly senseless murder.

Johnson was smart enough to know the power & accuracy of a Spencer, a rimfire, and that the power could not be improved, even though the accuracy could be. You do not live long in the Mountains by being stupid. I think he merely killed the boy to steal the rifle and a nice rifle it was, at that. Life was cheap in the mountains in the mid 1800's and killing for a rifle was oft done.

John Johnson known famously, or infamously as the Crow Killer, died in 1928, I think it was, tending sheep in Montana.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (05/11/15 07:17 AM)

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: The 7 shot wonder---Spencer rifle..bit of history [Re: DarylS]
      #272620 - 05/11/15 12:57 AM

Interesting story...

Just like the mountains of the past, life is still cheap today. Check out Chicago..

Ripp

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: The 7 shot wonder---Spencer rifle..bit of history [Re: Ripp]
      #272636 - 05/11/15 04:25 AM

Enjoyed reading about this rifle, which I only know about from the movies.

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John aka NitroX

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CarlsenHighway
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Reged: 19/03/09
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Re: The 7 shot wonder---Spencer rifle..bit of history [Re: NitroX]
      #273801 - 22/11/15 07:18 PM

Johnson died in a veterans home in California in 1900 aged about 75.
(They reburied his body in Wyoming in the 1970's after he became more famous after the Robert Redford film.)

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If you carry a cat home by the tail you will receive information valuable to you for the rest of your life.
Mark Twain

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: The 7 shot wonder---Spencer rifle..bit of history [Re: CarlsenHighway]
      #273826 - 23/11/15 05:17 AM

Quote:

Johnson died in a veterans home in California in 1900 aged about 75.
(They reburied his body in Wyoming in the 1970's after he became more famous after the Robert Redford film.)



There ya go. My info on his death was from the mouth of a Montana man. Perhaps he merely repeated what he'd been told.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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