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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Handguns

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iqbal
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Reged: 05/02/03
Posts: 763
Loc: Karachi,Pakistan
Best handgun for self defense
      #2733 - 10/05/03 02:04 AM

The answer to this question may be debatable but personally i rate the 9mm.as the most suitable and versatile in the sense that it can be used by other members of the family i.e. wife,teenage son & daughter.As far as stopping power is concerned it may be on the lower side as compared to a 45 or 357 mag.but then these weapons are not easy to handle and require lots of practise.
The other gun that i prefer and sometimes carry is the 32mag.snub nose by Charter Arms.At close range this one is lethal,especially when using hollow points.
What are your preferances.


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DaveJames
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Loc: Tidewater,Virginia
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #2783 - 12/05/03 07:24 PM

igbal, I have carried a hand gun of one type or another for over 30 years now,and have tried just about every new one that has come on the market here in the States, for work its the department issued SIG-229 in 40 calibere,for off duty its the 220 in 38super, I carry a Khar in 9mm as a back up and a Kel-tec in 32acp in the vest pocket on the body armour,for just bumming around the woods I use my old pre-model 27, 3 1/2" bbl. in 357mag. shooting the standard Keith load.
Your 9mm will work,and if you can shoot the hollow point load, thats better

--------------------
"I am always willing to learn,but not always willing to be taught."
Sir Winston Churchill


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Nick_Adams
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Reged: 20/12/03
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Loc: USA
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: DaveJames]
      #7004 - 16/01/04 08:38 AM

While a lot of people in the U.S. like the old .45acp, many speak very highly of the 10mm AUTO.

This cartridge was developed in the early 1980s. It was heralded as the perfect service round for law enforcement and military use by well-known .45 guru Jeff Cooper. Many here feels it's currently the most versatile and powerful cartridge you can fit into a pistol of reasonable size and weight. Loaded ammo is available not only in many bullet weights & styles, but also in power levels.

The 10mm offers more knock-down punch than a 45acp or 9mm, while also, in certain pistols, having a mag capacity level closer (or equal) to a 9mm - except in the U.S. where, in the absence of owning any so-called high capacity "pre-ban" mags, a buyer is typically limited to "post-ban" 10rd mags (regardless of caliber).

10mm pistols are available from Glock (20 & 29), Kimber, Dan Wesson, and Tanfaglio (the Witness, in large & compact models). Some older used guns also exist in 10mm, like the S&W series (10XX - 1006; 1076), and Colt's Delta Elite)

--------------------
________________________________

Remember ...

"Only accurate rifles are interesting."

.300 H&H.



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NONE
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Reged: 15/12/03
Posts: 110
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #7007 - 16/01/04 10:04 AM

I carry and prefer the .45APC. I have over the years tried them all but I keep going back to the .45 . I find that for myself its the most knock down power in a small controllable package, I prefer the Colt Commander lightweight series, full length grip for control yet shorter slide for concealed carry and light weight.

I am a bit biased toward the .45 after carrying one for a career for some time in custom built colts of various types and stocked with the 230gr federal hydra-shock I always felt well protected.

I to loved the idea of the 10mm and belive it to be a wonderful cartridge, its only draw back for me and the reason I don't carry one is the recoil and affect it has on my second shot quick double tap and multiple string accuracy. I carried a custom Bren-Ten years ago one of the first 10mm to come out and love the pistol as well as the Delta Elite.

As always practice and bullet placement is much more important the caliber with in reason. I do not feel under gunned with a .380 if need be because I trust my shooting and bullet placement, the saying goes "a .44mag at home is not near the stopper as a .22 in the pocket when you need it" (Clint Smith) My sea camp .32 is a backup because I don't feel safe with it as a "bad situation" stopper but in certain times it beats nothing.

James F. Nixon III


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Holmes
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #9516 - 19/02/04 04:49 PM

I'm a 45ACP guy. Not opposed to the others, but I've carried for a living and three decades of 1911-style conditioning does not convert easily!

Most of my time has been spent with Colts but I switched several years ago to Kimbers. Current carry piece is an Ultra Compact. Very dependable and recoil is reasonable. Eats most anything I feed it.

Regards,


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luv2safari
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #9613 - 20/02/04 03:41 PM

For my personal use I prefer my 45ACP LW Commander. To have for ready use by household members and for the wife...38 spl/357 DA revolver with a 3"-4" barrel. I like a Smith on a K frame.

I think that simple is better for those who don't use handguns often enough to be familiar with a semi-auto...even in DA.IMHO

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics


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Bigfive
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: luv2safari]
      #9632 - 20/02/04 06:05 PM

My personal favourite is a 9mm CZ 75 wich I carry with me at all times.(you have to if living in South-Africa ,)
I think the reason is totally personal and you cant tell anybody wich is better.It is what you are comfortable with shooting.Left and right I can group all 16 my shots in a 4" grouping at 15 meters wich I think is absolutly enough for self defence.I battle to shoot revolvers and this is why my 38 S&W never gets used.
Coiuncidently I am in the market for another handgun for my wife but I'll let her shoot a couple before SHE makes HER decision.I only made a few suggestions but it is up to her.

To get back to the question most of the stats I ever came across showed that a 9mm is the ideal.

If a guy pulls a knife on me I would'nt mind pulling a 454 Casull.Just imagine the look on the batards face

--------------------
"Hunting is a way of life"
Bigfive,South Africa


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ChuckWagon
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Bigfive]
      #9638 - 20/02/04 11:53 PM

I carry a Kimber 45. My wife uses a Smith Airweight Ti in 38+P with Laser grips. Its reliable fast and BRUTAL to shoot !

--------------------
Life is more like a jar of Jalapeno's than a box of chocolates. What you do today might burn your butt tomorrow !


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Hobie
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Reged: 15/01/04
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #9691 - 21/02/04 07:40 AM

For years I carried a .45 Colt Combat Commander. Given the clothing I was wearing, it was easy to conceal AND with small kids in the house, I wasn't going to leave a gun out anyway. At night I took it off and then set it up at bedside. However...

The wife took exception to my having a cocked pistol next to the bed. Explanations of the mechanics were futile. Now the kids are grown, the daily clothing and work schedule have changed and has been easier to have a S&W M13 3" or Ruger Speed-Six (both .357s) for both uses. When I leave the house (I now do most of my non-profit work at the house), it is easy to pick it up and go. The springs are always at rest and the cartridge will do what I want including required applications at the farm.

Sometimes either of these guns is just too big. Then I carry a S&W M36. Very little transition needed.

I have used an alternative which I consider inadequate for winter work due to the heavy clothing some people might be wearing. That is the Pistolet Makarov using the 9x18mm cartridge. Pluses include low cost (VERY important to some people) of both the firearm and the ammo (which you can get for $60 for 500 rounds delivered!), light recoil (like the .38 Special), moderate capacity (8-9 rounds or more), and the double action feature (which makes MY wife very happy). Negatives are the bulk of the gun for the round utilized, what might be considered under-penetration by the 9x18 HP round, relatively limited effective range (compared to the heavier .38/.357 and .45 bullets), and limited range of support equipment such as holsters (although this has improved).

Most people don't have to use their carry gun on the farm but many do have families with whom they want to or must interact and whose skill set they must consider. For me, a .357 Magnum or .38 Special level load (including the 9x18mm Makarov) in a double action pistol or revolver.

--------------------
Sincerely,

Hobie
"Duty is the rent we pay for life." The Queen Mother
116th Infantry Regiment "The Stonewall Brigade"


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M82A1Barret50Cal
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Hobie]
      #13847 - 22/04/04 02:33 PM

Unfortunatly we are not allowd to carry handguns for self defence in Australia. If we could though...

.22!!! It is the easiest to shoot due to low recoil. All self defence happens at very close range and at 10 metres a .22 will do plenty of damage to said target. If you miss with a big cal handgun then you want to be able to make a very quick follow up shot and you are going to get a follow up shot in a heck of alot quicker with a .22 than you will with any other cal. Just remember this, a .22 bullet that hits will always do more damage than a .50cal bullet that misses!!!

M82A1


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iqbal
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: M82A1Barret50Cal]
      #13880 - 23/04/04 03:25 AM

Agreed a .22 is easier to shoot and has less recoil,but its not a stopper i.e.unless you hit a vital organ.For self defense you perhaps need a caliber which will stop the perpetrator in his tracks and not allow him to fire back.The trauma or shock of a heavy caliber can do this.

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M82A1Barret50Cal
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #14005 - 26/04/04 06:52 PM

If you shoot someone in the knee then in the shoulder, even with a .22 they are going to be in too much pain to get another shot in...

M82A1


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475Guy
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: M82A1Barret50Cal]
      #14036 - 27/04/04 11:51 AM

Not necessarily, there are documented cases where someone was hit with a 22 and the shootee killed the shooter by beating him to death. If the ass-hole is under the influence by either drugs of choice or alcohol or both, he won't feel a damn thing. I can't give you specifics as that would be time consuming trying to go through thousands and thousands of cases done by the FBI's NCIC.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.


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M82A1Barret50Cal
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 475Guy]
      #14048 - 27/04/04 08:11 PM

Hmmm, I never really thought about the effects drugs would have on someone's ability to feel pain. Now that you mention it I seem to remember hearing about someone having their heart pulped by bullets while they were on PCP and the person got up and continued attacking. Well know that I've thought about it you may have just changed my opinion, if we are ever allowd to have a handgun for self defence in Australia or if I ever move to a country where I am allowd one I might go for something a bit bigger now, probably a .357mag or a .38 special or maybe even bigger. Thanks mentioning that because it may just save my life one day in the future, 20 years from now...

M82A1


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475Guy
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: M82A1Barret50Cal]
      #14190 - 01/05/04 12:41 PM

Dude, don't count on twenty years from now. Shit happens every day and with some bad luck going my way, I've had it happen more often than not. When you get complacent, that's when it'll catch up with you. I've been told that I look around me (360) for no reason. Little do they know. If I seem to expect anything to happen, then I'm mentally prepared for it because it didn't surprise me. Since you guys down there are limited to .355 to .357 size, get the hottest load/gun combination that you can handle.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.


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M82A1Barret50Cal
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 475Guy]
      #14198 - 01/05/04 06:19 PM

1 problem though, we are not allowd handguns for self defence so that why I said in 20 years, if I decide to move overseas (or the government decides to stop being an asshole).

M82A1


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475Guy
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: M82A1Barret50Cal]
      #14199 - 01/05/04 10:28 PM

Well then, good luck on your relocation. When man's law abrogates God's law for self-defense, it is time to move. We got to remember that Moses was told that it is the duty of the good citizen to do in the wrongdoer.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: M82A1Barret50Cal]
      #14209 - 02/05/04 03:41 AM

In reply to:

If you shoot someone in the knee then in the shoulder, even with a .22 they are going to be in too much pain to get another shot in...




Victorian police training is to shoot them and keep shooting them until they are on the ground. As they ca still cover a fair distance with a knife even when fatally wounded. Something the media would not believe having watched too much TV.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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475Guy
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: NitroX]
      #14211 - 02/05/04 06:49 AM

Nitro, you bring up an interesting point. Stateside, it is commonly called the 21 Feet rule discovered and put forth on paper by then-peace officer, Dennis Tueller of Salt Lake City PD, Utah.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.


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rgp
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 475Guy]
      #15900 - 17/06/04 06:35 PM

1911's are neat but if I were still carrying a handgun for protection from meanies I'd probably go for a SIG in .45 acp or .357 SIG or a Glock in 9mm. They seem to be better out of the box than most 1911's. That said, I like 1911's a hell of a lot better than any of the Yurp guns.

Also regarding the 10mm, the only police officer I know of who had to use one on a bad guy immediately got rid of the 10 and went back to carrying a .45 acp...he said the 10 was pretty much a failure.

Currently the only handguns I own are single action revolvers since I am not in any business requiring social interaction.

Richard


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cowboyhat
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #16002 - 20/06/04 07:16 AM

The best handgun for your personal defense and the defense of your family, is on you have confidence in and you can shoot well. I have carried them all, 380, 357, 44 mag and 45 ACP. I prefer the 45, but any in a gun that you can shoot well, will put down your assailant, and keep him down.

--------------------
RJW

It is not about being the fastest, and it is not even about being the most accurate....it is about being willing


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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #17739 - 09/08/04 09:56 PM

Well I hate to dissagree with you fella's however the best close range defence weapon is a REMINGTON 870 Pump loaded with OO Buckshot.
Ive never seen anybody survive a good dose of OO buck.
Its a bit messy but who cares.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949


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Gibbs505
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: M82A1Barret50Cal]
      #19096 - 09/09/04 02:12 PM

A couple of shoots into the head and it won't matter what drugs they are on!!

--------------------
So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it


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475Guy
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Gibbs505]
      #19103 - 09/09/04 08:36 PM

505

Only if the dude stands still when you pull out your iron. Every time I've had to pull mine out, there was an automatic reaction in trying to duck on their part. Gotta remember that these street toughs have had various weapons pulled on them on a regular basis.



--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.


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Nick_Adams
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 475Guy]
      #19151 - 12/09/04 11:04 AM

Get a 10mm Auto, like the Glock 20. The G20 holds 15 rounds of 10mm, which, in its mid-to-high performance range, has more "knock-down" punch than either the .45acp or the 9mm wuss ball.

Double Tap Ammo, Texas Ammo, Corbon, Georgia Arms, ProLoad and a number of others produce full-strength 10mm loads.

As 10mm fans in the States like to say:

"When you're finally serious about stopping power, then you're ready for the 10mm Auto."

Nick Adams carries a 10mm. You should too.

--------------------
________________________________

Remember ...

"Only accurate rifles are interesting."

.300 H&H.



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M82A1Barret50Cal
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #19488 - 28/09/04 01:16 PM

After careful consideration over the last few months, I would say for personal protection, if you are limited on cal size then get the biggest cal you can and put the hottest load you can in it. If not I agree with the 10mm auto, I still haven't had a chance to shoot anything bigger than a .38 (stupid australian government) but from looking at performance figures that's what I would go for.

However, for home protection, get yourself a not-too-expensive, but reliable, 12 semi-auto shotgun. Put a skeeted choke in, saw off the barrel, take your No. 00 (very well chosen ammo by the above user) and remove the wad for faster spread of the shot. If you do all this right from 5 meters your shot should have expanded to a radius of about 1 meter, in otherwords you can't miss, pump a few of those into someone and they will have shrapnel embedded in them from head to toe and they won't live to tell the story...

M82A1


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Siskiyous6
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #21123 - 22/11/04 05:33 PM

The best is the one in your hand. I teach personal defense. You need agun you will carry. When I lived in the desert I carried smaller guns than I do in moderate climates. Lite guns tend to be taken along when heavy guns are left at home.

The best gun is the most powerful gun you are willing to take with you all the time

On duty we still carry .38 S&W revolvers and I have one of Taurus's UltraLite's in that caliber (+P) that is always with me. I also have a 25 ounce 45. It goes along a little less often. There are some really small and light 9mms, but if you are going to carry more weight then don't kid yourself. The 45 is more gun. One shot stopping power is irrelevent. Empty the guns entire capacity into him quickly.

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Pass it on!


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slammer6delta
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Reged: 31/12/04
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #22943 - 31/12/04 10:52 AM

I agree with Alan hands down that a rem 870 with 00buck is the best self defense you can have. If someone breaks in your house and you happen to miss him your first shot because it's dark or whatever and half the wall beside him is gone, his intentions of robbing you after that are probably gonna fade anyway. You can replace the wall later but you can't replace your life or worse your wife or child.

My step brother was riding horses one day and one of the guys that was with them just started shooting at everyone with a .22 pistol. He hit a couple of them didn't kill any of them, hit my brother in the leg, brother took the pistol away from him and beat the hell out of him.


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blackfoot
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: M82A1Barret50Cal]
      #22995 - 31/12/04 06:33 PM

Wound ballistics and stopping power of calibers are still debated even by the experts. But the only real guaranteed measure of man-stopping power is the size of the wound channel the bad guy is going to bleed into. Unless you hit the central nervous system they're not sure to go down straightaway, and that's not very likely to happen. I had a friend a number of years ago who was attacked at several feet by a butcher-knife wielding assaillant while responding to a routine call. The first round (38 special +P hollowpoint, in performance very close to a 9mm Hydrashock, these were the revolver days) went dead center into the guy's chest. He kept coming and managed to put a slash across the officer's face, friend still has the scar. The second round went through the bad guy's cervical spine, and the assailant collapsed immediately, effect described as being like a switch turned off.

No normal pistol round is going to have enough energy to physically knock someone down, they're going to hopefully fall down from shock and pain, and years of self-visualization from TV and movies that that is what one does when one gets shot. The problem is with the bad guy who doesn't realize its time to fall down. In the 1986 Miami shootout between the FBI and the two armored car robbers, which left two agents dead and around a half dozen more wounded, one of the suspects fought for several minutes after sustaining a 'non-survivable' wound to his aorta.

I think a 9mm hollowpoint is a good round, its what I carry off-duty in a Browning BDM. I would not go any smaller though. The 40 S/W (10mm short) is a bit more powerful. The 10mm and 45ACP are still the kings in my eyes. The FBI's research shows the 10mm might be just a tad better man stopper than the 45. But they'll all work. I think its what you're comfortable with recoil-wise, and what you can afford to practice with! All the foot-lbs. in the world aren't going to save you if they're zinging over the bad guy's shoulder. I don't know about down under, but in the states 45ACP is almost twice as expensive as 9mm. I also like the nine because I can carry sixteen rounds in an off-duty capacity in a slim pistol, where I might not have a spare mag around.

As far as brand name guns I like dependable ones, Brownings, Rugers, Smith revolvers, 3rd generation Smith autos. I personally have had a lot of problems with Berettas and some with Sigs. Never shot a CZ but I'd like to. Glock is a good combat gun but you need to be damned careful with it, 4.5 lb standard trigger pull isn't much.

All just my two cents anyway .


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577Enfield
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: blackfoot]
      #23029 - 01/01/05 01:23 AM

for me, in the area I live in and the lifestyle I lead, self defence with a handgun means bears primarily. A double barrel howdah pistol in .577 Snider would be my ultimate choice for this. For some scumbag trying to attack me with a knife? well I am most comfortable with a single action in .45 Colt, I realize an auto is likely better, but I have only used auto's a little bit-a big single action revolver is natural to me and I can use one without wondering what button to push etc....

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Taos
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #38848 - 07/10/05 02:01 PM

I daily carry a Kimber single stack in .45 A.C.P. A little practice and it is very controllable. My sons both started shooting them at around 7yoa. My wife loves to shoot it also.

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Daryl_S
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #38849 - 07/10/05 02:21 PM

Being a proficient handgun shooter with many years of use, on the job and off, I can wholeheartedly recommend a short barreled 12 bore only. Handguns take much practise to become proficient in their use, and easily miss at very close range by someone who is quite excited. Just a few hours of GOOD practise can develope all the skill necessary to use a shotgun properly. You, the home defender, must be the only one giving evidence at the trial. With a single bullet fired from a handgun, this is less likely.
: For inside jobs, I'd recommend #1,2,3 or 4 buck and an open choke. The smaller buck-shot, the better as it will be equally or more effective at such close range as 00 buck due to multiple hits and be less likely to hurt someone else in adjacent rooms due to less penetrative force.
: A shotgun is much easier to control and has a much more dramatic 'Visual' effect which is liely to difuse the situation until help arrives via 911.
: For those who insist on using a handgun, there are few better or even the equal of the model 1911 loaded with Speer Flying ashtrays.(200gr.hp's)(or more modern rapid expanding projectile. The trouble is that few will retire to the needed practise, vitally necessary to become proficient with it. I do not consider anything smaller than .41 cal. to be good enough for those who can legally use a firearm for self defense. The only .38 I would consider is a .38/40, which is actually a .408". The .35's don't muster.


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V


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Pablo
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: M82A1Barret50Cal]
      #39741 - 25/10/05 10:24 AM

10mm is caput, it's been superseded by .40S&W.
After loosing 15kilos the MK 23 .45ACP is the one for me.


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303
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Pablo]
      #39837 - 26/10/05 09:23 PM

what about one of those little ruger super redhawks with the 2 1/2 inch barrel in 454Casul

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Taos
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 303]
      #39849 - 27/10/05 04:01 AM

I would say that the best gun for self defense is the one you have with you when it is needed. That said I would choose the largest bore gun, with the hottest load that I could shoot and hit a pie plate consistantly every time at 20 yards, without fail. That is what I would consider my defensive handgun.

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Pablo
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 303]
      #39864 - 27/10/05 01:23 PM

.454 Casull with 2.5" barrel? Nice "flame thrower" which entire sasquatch family can use in defense of their cave.
Try .357Mag with 38 Special + P 158gr semi-wadcutter hollow points.

Edited by Pablo (27/10/05 01:28 PM)


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tinker
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #39890 - 28/10/05 01:10 AM

.45ACP in a 1911

AND
Proper training.

Proper training as in thunder ranch, front site etc...
Massad Ayoob Lethal force Institute yadda yadda yadda

All the bullshit about a single action trigger being dangerous is just that.
The .45 is easily controllable, wether in the 1911 or a glock or a revolver...
It's a manstopping round designed to stop men.
It works great at doing that too.





--Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Daryl_S
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: M82A1Barret50Cal]
      #39898 - 28/10/05 04:09 AM

Best handgun for self defence, for someone without good combat/handgun training, is a 20" bl. 12 bore Pump with 00 buck.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V


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Pablo
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Daryl_S]
      #40055 - 30/10/05 01:47 AM

If self defense = home defense then cyl-choked scattergun is fine. Birdshot for summer season and #4 Buck for fall/winter, if applicable.

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Tightloop
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Pablo]
      #65476 - 08/11/06 03:30 AM

45 ACP, 1911 Series 70 Commander, full race, stuffed with 230 Fed Hydro Shok....been doing the job since the round was designed in 1905 and then made it's way into the 1911 mod pistol...both doing the job for a long time...

Line the tag line of one of the members...never hunt with a cartridge younger than you...well, same can be said for a pistol round that was designed to save your life...


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hoppdoc
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Tightloop]
      #65486 - 08/11/06 05:19 AM

The best handgun is the one in the caliber you can best hit your target repeatedly.

I enjoy and shoot alot of handguns so I will voice my opinions and hope not to offend others.

1911's are great if they are extensively reworked but most suffer from reliability issues if run hard.The best most reliable stock guns for defensive work are Glocks,Sigs,and HK's. I like HK compacts with their safety features. They are not common familiar guns. A perp who gets your gun may require some extra time to get one running.

Attacking perps require multiple hits and thus a 45 is harder to control effectively. One bullet may not get it done. You should shoot till the perp is not a threat. I have several 1911's but I personally prefer the 40 S&W in one of the guns mentioned. A 40 will also have higher magazine capacity than 1911's. When carrying a small pocket size auto a 9mm micro Kahr works nicely.

Carry a gun everyday and shoot regularly.You may form the same opinions.Its a highly personal issue and you are betting your life on your choice.Shooting defensive handguns is just plain fun.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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Tightloop
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: hoppdoc]
      #65497 - 08/11/06 09:22 AM

I agree that the best pistol is the one that you can hit with...but a 45 ACP is lots easier to shoot and control than a 470NE and it seems that everyone here but me has one of those...LOL

Started shooting competitively in '77, between then and now, recon I have shot way over 1 million rounds of 45ACP...been to 5 US Championships and 3
World shoots....I guess the 45 will get it done for me with 9 rounds...I don't intend on taking on the entire Bandidos biker gang at once...doesn't matter if you are Rob Leathan if there are 10 and you only have 9 rounds....


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gatsby
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #65521 - 08/11/06 05:31 PM

I like the .41 mag Smith 6inch or the Colt 45 auto for myself. If I had to leave a gun for the wife and kids it would be a .38 revolver with +p light hollow points, easy to use and to see if its loaded or not. Here in CA in the USA it is illegal to leave a loaded gun within the reach of a minor or any gun for that matter. A shotgun is not a bad thought either.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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hoppdoc
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: gatsby]
      #65529 - 08/11/06 10:57 PM

The best gun is the one you hit the target rapidly and accurately with be it a 9mm, a 40, a 45ACP ,or whatever.

If you have to actually shoot a single perp, don't just shoot once and watch, shoot 'em like a singer sewing machine while moving,starting at the chest and zipper up till they are not a threat.Have a b/u mag and a flashlight if possible.Perps probably have partners, so look for his buddy.

I refer to "people" defensive handguns. When outdoors for protection I carry a Ruger Bisley 45 LC with hot loads for penetration.Almost had to use it on a black bear once.

You gotta use what works for you.Practice alot!!.


--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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bonanza
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: hoppdoc]
      #65556 - 09/11/06 10:13 AM

I have been thinking about the Kimber KDP recently for home defense. I like its features and it will accomodate a flashlight. I find the a shotgun too bulky and I want to keep my firearm in my side table.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


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hoppdoc
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: bonanza]
      #65564 - 09/11/06 01:38 PM

I would agree that for home defense a light/laser dot combo on a semiauto is a winner. An advantage of such a gun shooting a high capacity 9mm like a full size Glock is that you can make controlable hits at strange angles away from your body around corners etc.I think its a great home defence combo---

Try shooting targets in dark rooms with such a gun going doorway to doorway.Its very educational and a blast!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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Tightloop
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: hoppdoc]
      #65590 - 10/11/06 01:23 AM

Would you like to expand on your statement of making controlable hits at strange angles around corners etc...I have been shooting combat handguns for 30 yrs and the requisites for accurate handgun shooting differs little from accurate rifle shooting...sight picture and trigger control are the two things that matter...and the laser sights like Laser Sites only give you an approximation of where your shot will hit...



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hoppdoc
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Tightloop]
      #65620 - 10/11/06 09:01 AM

Tightloop--Sorry--

You are absolutely correct-

Brain/typing Fart!!

I was referring to strange pivoting body angles used banging away from corners. i.e. when tipped over at 45`to lessen body exposure from return fire. I find a 9mm much more controllable with pivoting angles and better able to hit targets than other calibers.With your level of competition experience/expertise this would'nt be a problem,but I do better with a 9mm.And yes if you cant get a front site picture and release the trigger properly you got problems.

I will defer to others who shoot/train heavily with lasers but my impression is they actually slow down your shot response when used for POI in low light.I do think they may be an aid in developing muscle memory for learning how to "point shoot" at close distances. I think I may be better at "point shooting" after playing with the laser but how that could be proved I don't know.

What are your thoughts on light/laser equiped guns for low light scenarios and home defense?

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (10/11/06 09:06 AM)


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Tightloop
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: hoppdoc]
      #65622 - 10/11/06 09:19 AM

This is hardly the place to discuss self defense with any weapon...but one should use the sights on any firearm...there is always time and it makes hitting so much better....you should practice to the point of it being automatic concerning sights, trigger, grip, firing, calling your shot, and the reload...

Red dot lasers have a place in combat during urban fighting, in dim or no light situations, but for defensive situations, they just show the bad guys where you are...let the muzzle flash be the first thing they see...then the advantage shifts to your side...


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bonanza
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Tightloop]
      #65630 - 10/11/06 11:57 AM

No, this is a perfect place to discuss this. This web site has the greatest collection of firearm bullshiters anywhere. Seriously, I want to buy a handgun soon for home defense and want to here from those who know their shit.

Currently my train of thought is a DAO rail gun in 9mm.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


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Tightloop
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: bonanza]
      #65633 - 10/11/06 01:19 PM

It depends a great deal on your level of competency and your committment to learn a specific platform...the .45 was developed to shoot people and has been doing a good job since 1905....it is the almost perfect combination of power and comtrolability...and the DAO guns might be a tad bit safer in a home with someone who is not going to master the platform, but SERIOUS handgunners of the defensive nature will look long and hard at the single action 1911 or clone in .45 ACP...take the time to master the pistol and the cartridge and you will not be disappointed...carried one in Nam, and have shot one in competition for a lot of years...shot a burgler with one in '74 and it did a great job there too.

Just my .02 worth..


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500grains
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 475Guy]
      #66483 - 07/12/06 03:00 AM

Quote:

Nitro, you bring up an interesting point. Stateside, it is commonly called the 21 Feet rule discovered and put forth on paper by then-peace officer, Dennis Tueller of Salt Lake City PD, Utah.




21 feet? 7 yards? Some forumites allow elephants to come closer before pulling the trigger, let alone humans.


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500NE_Classic
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 500grains]
      #66522 - 07/12/06 03:51 PM

Although in the past I carried concealable autos ( Devel 9mm, Detonics .45, AMT Backup .45, Glock 20C 10mm, etc, etc)
I do not work at shooting as I once did, I don't shoot "fun house" combat ranges anymore ,ala the earlier years of practical pistol competitions.
Infact , I don't shoot pistols much at all any more (though today I fanned 3 cylinders out of an italian Colt Copy just to see if I could still do it) .
Truth is I just don't work at being hangun proficient like I used to.
So, where am I going with this?
Well, I dont want to worry about a non locked slide , nor a non engaged mag, nor a decocker nor a saftey, nor a weak mag spring. nor a stove-pipe , nor a dud ,nor-- you get the drift.
Sooo, I've gone back to wheel guns.
.44 Chater Bulldog cut down to 2", .38 airwt Mod 38 S&W pinned barrel (+P's, yeah I know you aren't supposed to shoot +P's in an airwt) etc

Don't get me wrong, I love my autos, but I don't work at it any more, so if I'm tire or half asleep, or whatever---I don't have to think or worry about mechanicals--just point and shoot.


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Tightloop
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 500NE_Classic]
      #66556 - 08/12/06 06:47 AM

You must answer the question for yourself....but how much time, effort, energy, and dedication is your life or the life of a loved one worth? Is it worth getting the Best defensive pistol, chambered for the Best defensive round, and then mastering those two things till you can do it when you are sleepy, tired, whatever...when you have a master level of profiency with the 1911 platform and the .45ACP, you do not have to worry about the mags, the slide, anything, it is just as reliable, if not moreso than any revolver...

Not to be arguementative about it, but it sounds to me like you don't need a defensive pistol, you need a big dog, and the police on speed dial...

Just remember that if you called am ambulance, the police and a pizza place, the pizza guy would get there first, the ambulance second and the police last...so you make the call..

Just like hunting and shooting dangerous game...there is NO magic bullet...it ALL comes down to having the proper gear, profiency and the will to do the right thing when the time comes...sure you don't live in NYC or on the Left Coast?????? They share the same ideology you do...


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allenday
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Tightloop]
      #66621 - 09/12/06 02:37 AM

Good comments........

A big part of the answer depends upon how much practice and training you're willing to invest in. I don't consider the 1911 to be a good platform for someone who is going to take a casual approach to skills development. For the person who simply wants to buy a defensive handgun, shoot it a bit, make sure that it's sighted-in in case he should ever need it, then clean it and put it up until an emergency arises, there are several good and safe alternatives.

The HK P7-M8, Sig, and Kahr autos as well as S&W J-frame revolvers are good, simple, reliable guns that are straight-forward to use and very safe -- although until someone manages to invent the fool-proof fool...........well

For my own purposes, my favorite carry/defense handgun is a Commander-size 1911 in 45 ACP. I'm 49 years old, I grew up shooting a 1911 on the family farm, and on our place, we shot a LOT. After some thirty years of use, thousands and thousands of rounds fired, and at least a couple dozen 1911s owned, the operation and use of the 1911 is second-nature to me. I've tried just about every other make of auto-pistol, and I've gotten rid of everything else.

With proper training and sufficient practice, I think the 1911 in 45 ACP is the ultimate defensive pistol, and it's incredibly durable, and it'll stand up to abuse that would shut a revolver down totally. It's not unusual for a well cared for 1911 to hold up to 100,000 rounds of ammo and STILL shoot with good accuracy. In contrast, the U.S. Army has noted "catastrophic failure" of the Beretta pistol (that the 1911 was dropped in favor of) after just 3,000 rounds! So the army went from a far more durable pistol in a far more effective caliber to a problematic junker.

As I understand it from our men in the middle-east, there are two kinds of sholdiers on duty who carry pistols: Those that carry and 1911, and those who wish they did..........

AD


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Tightloop
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: allenday]
      #66625 - 09/12/06 03:50 AM

I am similar to you in my appreciation for the 1911 platform...have shot something over one million rounds of .45ACP since 1977 both in competition and practice...the platform is not for those that want easy or simple...it is something that needs to be studied and mastered...not for the stupid or the lazy...but once you have achieved a level of mastery, it is the almost perfect self defense handheld weapon...Mine is a 70 Series Combat (steel) Commander with all the trick features, (which are not for everyone either), but they work for me...

Being an advocate of the late Jeff Cooper, and having taken lots of courses and study under his hand, I believe you can't do much better unless it is to have more than one 1911...but to each his own...

It is not the first, nor will it be the last bad call the military makes...the M16 is another one..but we'll save that for another discussion...

Self defense is a mindset as much as anything...refusing to be a victim...and it starts way before you start carrying for self defense...the decision to shoot or not is made long before the situation comes up...and when it does, those that hesitate are lost...as the saying goes in my neck of the wood: Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6...

While the perfect defense handgun has not yet been made, and while we each have our preferred weapons, you have to remember that even a .22 in your pocket is better than the .44 Mag on your dresser at home when you really need it..


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pistolchamp
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #72628 - 27/02/07 02:04 PM

WOW! a truly varied set of opinions. I live in Texas where the rules are pretty simple, get a concealed carry permit and carry what you like... with the limitation that the state licenses you for a revolver or any handgun over 32 caliber... interesting eh?

By the bed is a Glock 21 in 45 acp loaded with Federal hydroshocks, because tis powerful, accurate and both my wife and I can shoot it instantly, in the back pocket of my jeans is a Kahr PM9, mainly because its little, the 9m/m is a lot better than a stick and I like it. The wifey refuses to carry outside the house or off the ranch.

When meandering around the woods or ranch I carry the Glock 21 or if considering a bit of hunting a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt with very good handloads for deer, hogs, etc.

I have a safe full of handguns, but, these few get the nod nearly every time.


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475Guy
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 500grains]
      #73073 - 04/03/07 10:39 AM

Dan, that's 21 ft only with a man carrying a knife. It doesn't take long for a dude under the influence to cover that ground and stick you with that knife. In the training world, some police academies and many private training facilities practice knife defense. In some training scenarios, a guy will come at you with a dummy knife and you try to get him with good hits using paintball rounds before he sticks you. There's about a 90% chance he'll stick you at least once if not more and kill you. When I got to be a "knife wielder", I bowled almost everybody over and "got" them. Convicted felons in our prisons practice knife work and gun disarms when the C.O.'s aren't watching.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.


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hoppdoc
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 475Guy]
      #73076 - 04/03/07 11:09 AM

I have carried all kinds of handguns and have recently been shooting a modified Browning HI Power in 40S&W and like it alot.
It just like a 1911 but needs the trigger redone due to its basic magazine safety design.Rides on my hip well too.
Not a glock or Sig or HK but reliable, accurate,and I can shoot it well.

If you don't want to mess with maintaining a semiauto shooting a S&W revolver can be great fun and with its ergonomics some hammerless versions can be shot multiple times from inside a coat pocket! My wife carries one regularly.

Ultimately is all about attitude. How much does it matter to you to find some combo that works?

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (04/03/07 11:11 AM)


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dale
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: hoppdoc]
      #73110 - 04/03/07 05:20 PM

Hello Gentlemen,

This is a very interesting discussion. Though the years I have never been able to settle for one specific pistol but have narrowed it down to several favorites that I choose depending on different circumstances. In no particular order:
Browning P-35 14 shot 9mm
Para Ordiance lda 10 shot double action 45
S&W 6906 10 shot double action 9mm
S&W 37 airweight cheif 38sp. (first one up a shotshell)
German made 38 derringer (first shot a shotshell)
Walther ppk doubleaction 380
Walther TPH doubleaction 22
Bauer 25auto
Colt woodsman 4" 22
Could be I'm just pistol crazy


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hoppdoc
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: dale]
      #73117 - 04/03/07 08:02 PM

What I take is dependent on what I wear and what is most concealable for those clothes. Guess thats why so many handguns---

The hot days of summer due not promote the concealment of certain rigs.If you are down to a t-shirt and shorts you have to make some compromises.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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Savuti_One_Shot
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: hoppdoc]
      #73236 - 06/03/07 10:20 AM

Since the question was about handguns, I'll resist the temptation to discuss rifles and shotguns.

For concealed carry in this hot climate I've adopted the Kahr PM9, very small and just over a lb.

As a car gun, Taurus 2" Titanium 41 Mag.

In the night stand, Sig 220 45 with tritium sights.

For mowing the weeds around the house, where the most likely threat is a snake, S+W airweight 32 Mag with 3 of my shot loads and 3 85 gr HPs.

However, the handgun is purely a reactive weapon. If time permits, I'll retrieve a long gun to address the situation.

475guy is absolutely right about the 21 ft rule. Never let a cutting tool get any closer.

I had to laugh about knee and shoulder shots regardless of caliber. In the US, during the after-shooting analysis, that would be taken as prima facie evidence tha you were NOT in fear of your life, otherwise you would have killed the assailant. Even if a grand jury fails to indict, everything you own will belong to the "poor wounded victim".

SOS

--------------------
"I've this damned cannon." - Robert Wilson


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hoppdoc
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Savuti_One_Shot]
      #73253 - 06/03/07 03:42 PM

For a carry gun in hot climates I agree, the Kahr PM9 is a
great pocket gun.

A hammerless S&W airweight with a Barami grip is fun as well.

In colder climate conditions with light overclothes a smaller 1911 IWB with a "clip it" attachment can work if it rides properly.

With overclothes a "inside the belt", outside the jean rig for a big semiauto works well.I like safeties on my guns to avoid reholstering surprises ala Glock so the HK compact, Browning, and para-ord limited get the nod.I find the reworked Para only reliable with ball loads.Soft points need not apply.Thus the Browning and HK get the usual carry duty.A Surefire flashlight and additional mag can go elsewhere on the large belt if one feels so inclined but thats getting HEAVY.

It always helps to "be prepared".A man needs to have options.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (06/03/07 03:44 PM)


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bigdog
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: hoppdoc]
      #79169 - 22/05/07 02:10 PM

Nothing beats a Glock 20 with 15 shots of 10mm.Lots of power for a main gun. An excellent back up is a Rorbough 9mm. 6 shots of 9mm on a beefed up Seecamp frame and really really small.

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #79183 - 22/05/07 05:03 PM

I was thinking about a Steyr MA-1 recently because they were available at a huge discount on CDNN Incestments for a while but my wife is small and we needed something that either of us would be able to use if required at home (I live in a Communist state with no carry permits at all.) I couldn;t get any opinions anywhere as they are probably too new for them to have been used to any extent by experienced shooters.

My business partner and good friend made the decision for me - he gifted me a 38 revolver for my birthday. Now, it's going to be fun shooting it and getting my wife to do that as well whenever we can.

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hoppdoc
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #79189 - 22/05/07 09:35 PM

My wife likes the Kahr in a 9mm.A 38 S&W snub is great with A Barami/Tyler grip/grip adapter for IWB carry.

Find what you like but whatever you do--shoot it alot!!
Shooting it has to be as natural as breathing!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (22/05/07 09:35 PM)


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Swampfox
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: bigdog]
      #79224 - 23/05/07 05:09 AM

Bigdog,
I agree,this is my absolute favorite Handgun.Not nice,but a perfect Workingmachin.I own the Glock 20 now since years and i like it more and more.
The Glock has a deep aiming line and shoots controllable also with hard handloads.
But i live in a very peacefull area and don't have to carry the pistol all the time.i only carry when i hunt Wild boars as a back up.

--------------------
" As long as there's lead in the air there's hope".


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Shanster
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Swampfox]
      #79345 - 25/05/07 02:37 AM

Well lets see for home defense it is a glocksicle(33 round mag) 17 9mm with glock light and laser.
For concealed carry a Kimber CDP 45 with Laser grips a Smith Air weight 642 in 38+P and a Keltec 380 that I carry in my wallet pocket. Choice depends on weather and area . the kel tech is usually always with me. IF I NEED MORE MOVE OR BRING MY DOUBLE RIFLE.

Shan


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hoppdoc
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Shanster]
      #79366 - 25/05/07 10:36 AM

The best handgun is one is the one you have on you when you need it.

Always carry a semiauto rifle shooting a rifle cartridge in the truck or car.This vehicle gun is your REAL backup gun to deal with most scenarios!!

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An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.


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littlbigd
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: hoppdoc]
      #79784 - 02/06/07 05:57 PM

When it comes to combat shooting I think sticking with the tried and true weapons is always your best course of action. There is a reason that of all of the different assault rifles in the world 90% of the fighting forces use either an AK or an AR. These weapons are proven.

The same goes with pistols. 90% of the tactical community uses either a 1911 or a Glock. When making a choice for a tactical pistol I consider only these two weapons and then it comes down to operator training as has been mentioned in numerous other posts in this thread. The 1911 is great if you are willing to devote about 80 hours of formal training and 5000 rds to learning how to operate it efficiently or just buy a Glock - which works great, is reliable and will do the job.

I personally carry a 1911 when given a choice and a Glock when issued.


I think you can see from this thread that there is no 'best'. Although from a practical stand point I would have to go with the Glock for someone starting off with tactical handgun shooting. Another strike against the 1911 which hasnt been mentioned yet is that to get a 1911 working properly for combat applications you need a $1100 to $2000 weapon. Again though - I come from the chuch of the raven and nothing compares to a custom .45


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475Guy
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: littlbigd]
      #79785 - 02/06/07 06:13 PM

Church of the Raven, huh? You been to GunSite?

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
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Mike_Johnson
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #143924 - 19/10/09 07:57 AM

I have personally been a fan of the .45acp for many years but I have recently gone through a down sizing of my gun collection (still in progress) and for personal defense I use the following:

Sig 226 Combat with extended grip and 20 round mag in 9mm. This is a full size pistol and the first full size 9mm I have used for self protection. I at one time carried a Rohrbaugh all the time but I sold it. This is a big pistol and though I am 6'3", I use this pistol in the winter months under a coat.

Smith and Wesson 60-3 Pro in .357. 3 inch pistol with night sights, my 9 months of the year carry pistol. Two speed loaders in a jacket pocket for refills.

Bond Derringer in .357. I use this one quite alot and though its a two shot, it goes into the woods and on many hunting trips with me.


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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Mike_Johnson]
      #143928 - 19/10/09 08:50 AM


I carry a S&W model 640. .357 Mag with a 2" barrel

--------------------
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a wandering spirit chasing Autumn skies and the call of sporting roads ahead.


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Ripp
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #143937 - 19/10/09 11:54 AM

Have several Kimber 1911's in .45 I carry--have a Glock .40 in my desk drawer at my office--.357 S&W model 60 in my car..Remington assault 12 gauge under the bed with a H&K 45 on the nightstand..

When going hiking in bear country,usually more concerned about the 2 legged variety but still carry a lightweight S&W 44 Mag..

When just bumming around have been known to throw a little Ruger .380 in the shorts..easily concealed and there if you need it..

Have numerous others but those are the usual suspects...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Ripp
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Ripp]
      #143993 - 20/10/09 07:44 AM

Got this in an email today and remembered this post--makes for a good read..

Ripp

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satellite/IMO_GA/Story_C/Social+Shotgun

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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9.3x57
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #144075 - 21/10/09 03:37 PM

Quote:


I carry a S&W model 640. .357 Mag with a 2" barrel




Your gun's little brother, a .38:

Leather by yours truly...



--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Empire375
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 9.3x57]
      #144084 - 21/10/09 07:33 PM

I just wish I could have a handgun !
Sadly in Australia only druglords and crims are qualified to have em !!


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Der_Jaeger
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Empire375]
      #144087 - 21/10/09 10:14 PM

Quote:

I just wish I could have a handgun !
Sadly in Australia only druglords and crims are qualified to have em !!




Sadly, that is the very expected outcome when honest, law-abiding citizens CANNOT have them.

--------------------
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a wandering spirit chasing Autumn skies and the call of sporting roads ahead.


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Ripp
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #144095 - 22/10/09 01:16 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I just wish I could have a handgun !
Sadly in Australia only druglords and crims are qualified to have em !!




Sadly, that is the very expected outcome when honest, law-abiding citizens CANNOT have them.





AGREED--find it aweful ironic---the largest number of firearms sales in history in the U.S. and crime is at a 50 year low per an article I read a few days ago..you would think the politicans would get their heads out of their ass and realize that..but as we all know it has nothing to do with facts..but more so to move forward with their personal political agenda..

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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500grains
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Ripp]
      #144100 - 22/10/09 02:25 AM

Best is relative I suppose. What is best and what is easy to carry are two different things. A great handgun that gets left home due to its size or weight does not do anyone any good.

The Ti or Sc S&W .357 revolvers get my vote when travelling in non-hostile areas. It fits IWB or in the pants pocket no problemo.



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Daryl_S
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 500grains]
      #144104 - 22/10/09 02:57 AM

Handguns? M29 4" would be my favourite for carry but isn't legal here at this time, for me. If my back gets straightened up and I get into guiding full time in my retirement, then my old 4" will be my companion in the bush. The 275gr. SWC at 1,210fps works well in my revolver.
I used to pack one just like it when a policeman - eons ago, loaded with 180gr. JHC Sierra's at 1,550fps - that was a descent self-defence load for 2 legged critters - easy to hit with, accurate and good on vehicle penetration as well as my actual testing showed. Never got to use it in self defence - maybe that's good.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V


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mehulkamdar
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Daryl_S]
      #144317 - 24/10/09 08:48 AM

COnsidering that I live in that land of peaceful dead people aka the murder capital of the USA, Chicago Ill-Annoy, where no one needs to carry a gun, and considering that I had asked a question about this some time ago here and received excellent advice, I have two .38 cal revolvers at home - one a Colt Detective Special and the other an old Iver Johnson which is useless unless you put it onto a target and fire. My wife is small made and has a weakness as she broke her arms when she was a child and cannot tolerate recoil - the Detective Special works for her.

I have been looking at buying an automatic pistol for myself and recently tried and then shot one of the new SIGs with the Short Reset Trigger and I really loved it. It will be my at home pistol shortly.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

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ChinaFleetSailor
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Empire375]
      #145330 - 07/11/09 02:30 PM

Quote:

I just wish I could have a handgun !
Sadly in Australia only druglords and crims are qualified to have em !!




Which is unfortunately the case in most of the world.

I've been reading a lot of responses from members from your part of the world, who for the most part are of the opinion that you don't need handguns in Australia.

Fair enough.

But I would counter that if you wait until there is a need, it won't be available.

Most cops in the states will never need their handgun. Most will make it through their careers without ever drawing it from their holsters.

Frankly, I'd say that our attachment to our handguns is just a reflection of our attachment to our rights, and we exercise them not so much because there is a need but instead simply because we can.


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Daryl_S
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #145364 - 08/11/09 06:10 AM

Mel- for a few years I used a M1911 for IPSC and came to love the gun for that purpose. For a self-defence gun, I'd gravitate to the larger bore and .45 just seems right. Speer's 200gr. Flying Ashtrays worked well in my .45 at right around 1,000fps.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V


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Checkman
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Daryl_S]
      #145382 - 08/11/09 12:05 PM

I carry a GLOCK 19 as my duty gun. For backup and off duty I go between my GLOCK 26 and my S&W Model 49 Bodyguard. However there are times that I will carry my G19 off duty. Especially in the winter when heavy coats and sweaters are the norm.

The S&W Model 49 tends to see more carry time in the summer in an ankle holster. It might not be the perfect arrangement but it beats nothing at all.

I guess it's blasphemy to say this on Nitroexpress, but I like the 9mm. I also like 38 special and .357 magnum. Never been a big fan of the 4 calibers. No reason just me.


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9.3x57
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Checkman]
      #145392 - 08/11/09 01:32 PM

Quote:

I guess it's blasphemy to say this on Nitroexpress, but I like the 9mm.




No disagreement here.

Or put another way, based on shooting butcher stock, dogs, coyotes and other varmints, trapped and Born Free, I'm not particularly impressed with any service pistol cartridge.

But I like the 9x19 NATO.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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88MauSporter
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 9.3x57]
      #145394 - 08/11/09 02:53 PM

I have carried a number of handguns over my several (many) years. Early 1970's in Alaska I carried a Colt model .357, .357 Magnum. It was rugged and accurate with full load 158 grain jacketed or hard cast. I could feel fairly confident for about any situation. I couldn't afford a .44 mag then. My .44 cap and ball gun did fairly well also, but I usually ended up carrying my Cold woodsman for pot meat.

When I was in law enforcement, I carried .357 M.66 S&W 4 inch, 9MM Berreta or a well worn but battle ready .45 1911 A1. I never felt undergunned with any one. As concealed carry, I carried a Colt Agent 2 inch. It is very light, holds 6 round to the J frame S&W 5. It was always on my belly band holster, inside the waistband holster or a nifty ankle rig. I used 125 gr +P. I still carry it or a S&W .38 like 9.3s.
Now that I am back in Alaska (all law abbiding citizens can carry here), I am going through the debate again. With bear attack not unheard of, even in populated areas the last few years, I am think about my.45 Colt SA with heavy cast bullet or one of my Webley's with 260 grain when we are out hiking, fishing or cross-country skiing. No, it isn't a .454 Cas. or a .500 S&W, but it is what I have and they do have a good reputation for deep penetration and knock down. I guess I could also pull out the old 1911 again as well. As far as best handgun for self defense? I guess it depends on what you are most likely to run into.
this is a good post thread. I has been running since 2003!

--------------------
"A hunter should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everthing goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." 88MauSporter


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Checkman
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 88MauSporter]
      #145435 - 09/11/09 03:09 AM

9.3X57

Quote:

Or put another way, based on shooting butcher stock, dogs, coyotes and other varmints, trapped and Born Free, I'm not particularly impressed with any service pistol cartridge.

But I like the 9x19 NATO.




You know the old saying about only bringing a handgun if you know you're going to be in a gunfight. However as a cop the handgun is what I always have on my belt and I thinks it's important to have confidence in your ability with the handgun as well as the caliber you use.

I used to carry the Sig Sauer P220 in 45 acp. I was a good shot with it, but I have always preferred the 9mm Parabellum. I don't care what all the tactical gurus say I like having magazines with seventeen cartridges (I carry the G17 mags for my reload) and with my smallish hands I don't feel comfortable with the GLOCK 21 - which is the model carried by the majority of officers with my department. Yes I can shoot the G21 and I can qualify with it, but I don't like that big blocky grip. Don't even like the G21SF with it's slimmer grips design. I worry that under stress I might fumble the G21 and I believe that a locak of confidence can be fatal. And again I like having lots of bullets. It's probably all in my head but I like having lots of bullets.

I can get hold of the G19 grip and put the bullets on target.That's important to me.

I carry the Federal 124 grain +P HST jacketed hollowpoint. Good load. The 45 guys carry the 230 grain +P HST Jacketed Hollowpoint in case you're curious.


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mehulkamdar
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Daryl_S]
      #145446 - 09/11/09 03:59 AM

Daryl,

Thanks for the suggestion. I shall check one of the 1911s out. They always confuse me because there are so many different brands and variations in configuration and price ranging from well below $ 1000 to over $ 3500. With the SIGs there is less confusion and they have a buyback for "clunker" handguns in the USA at the moment. I thought I'd get rid of some junk that I have . . .

Good hunting!

--------------------
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Mehul Kamdar


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Ripp
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: ChinaFleetSailor]
      #149272 - 02/01/10 05:07 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I just wish I could have a handgun !
Sadly in Australia only druglords and crims are qualified to have em !!




Which is unfortunately the case in most of the world.

I've been reading a lot of responses from members from your part of the world, who for the most part are of the opinion that you don't need handguns in Australia.

Fair enough.

But I would counter that if you wait until there is a need, it won't be available.

Most cops in the states will never need their handgun. Most will make it through their careers without ever drawing it from their holsters.

Frankly, I'd say that our attachment to our handguns is just a reflection of our attachment to our rights, and we exercise them not so much because there is a need but instead simply because we can.




Read with NEW insight into this thread. Spent most of last week in Houston.. not exactly a crime free area in the U.S. --the next door neighbor to my sister and her husband is a 24 year veteran of the Houston Policy department. He basically stated what has been said in this thread so many times...if you are in a situation that requires the police you had better be able and prepared to handle it yourself with "your weapon"..because in most cases by the time the cops get there all will be over and the only thing they are doing is filling out police reports...He was a very strong proponent for one being able to carry a handgun and protect yourself. There is NO way cops can or should be everywhere...which, I guess, is why the states with the "right to carry" laws here in many cases have lower incidences of ugly crimes that states who don't...

My time there only reiterated the fact you have to be able to take care of yourself..whether that is with a handgun, martial arts training, or whatever...


Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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86thecat
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Ripp]
      #157781 - 29/03/10 06:17 PM

My choice for every day carry is a Glock 20 10mm in a Galco Jackass shoulder rig. Load full house 180gn XTP's in town and 200gn soft points in the woods. Don't find the recoil any heavier than a compact G27 in 40S&W. Recoil in a steel framed 10mm pistol though seems harsher. IMHO the 10mm is still very much alive and the best choice for a concealable city & trail gun. For true wilderness the 454 gets the call.

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kamilaroi
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 86thecat]
      #157788 - 29/03/10 08:47 PM

"Tactical". How much the frock does that mataphor bore the living crap out of me!

(aka big kid/d***k on block syndrome)


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BigBoreRS
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: kamilaroi]
      #164956 - 25/07/10 03:14 PM

Given a choice, I would carry a Ruger SP101 in 357 Mag. I think it is a good option keeping in mind that is it easily concealable. I understand that it only has 5 rounds but if you cant stop an aggressor with 5 rounds of 357 Mag, then he dosent deserve to be stopped.

My 2 cents!

BigBoreRS

--------------------
Its not the gun, its the man behind the gun!


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Homer
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: BigBoreRS]
      #164964 - 25/07/10 06:29 PM

G'Day Fella's,

BigBoreRS, I have to agree with you as the SP 101 in .357 Mag is a Sweet Little Revolver!
You are correct, they are a Five Shot but that is no real disadvantage unless there are 6 or More Villains attacking you!

Unfortunately, Australians are no longer trusted with a .357 Mag SP 101, as the longest barrel its available in, is 3 1/2" and 4" is the minimum barrel length we are trusted with!

HooRoo
From
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"


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taw1126
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: BigBoreRS]
      #165002 - 26/07/10 03:22 PM

Quote:

I would carry a Ruger SP101 in 357 Mag. I think it is a good option keeping in mind that is it easily concealable.

BigBoreRS




"Easily concealable" varies tremendously depending on your environment and how many hours per day you're going to carry the thing. I have two .45 ACP 1911's (full-size Colt Gunsite, and Commander-length Ed Brown) and they are my favorite self defense platform. Toting around a couple of magazines worth of standard-pressure 230 grain bonded hollow points will give you a comforting feeling. But it's not necessarily comfortable, and it's very difficult to "accessibly conceal" a 1911 under business casual clothing even with very high quality gunleather (Milt Sparks' VM-II is my personal favorite). So I rarely carry a 1911.

For several years I carried a little Kel-Tec P3AT (.380 ACP) in a pocket holster. Extremely light, and simply vanishes in the front pocket of dress slacks. I carried mine with FMJs to maximize the potential for reaching something vital but I've never been comfortable staking my safety on the .380 ACP. I still own a .380 PPK but it's really heavy for the firepower it provides, and I only keep it around for the James Bond factor.

A few months ago I bought a 9mm Kahr PM9 for pocket carry. It's a small pistol, but still much heavier and larger than the Kel-Tec. I can pocket-carry it, but it "prints" worse in dress pants due to the additional size & weight. The upside is that I'm toting around 147 grain bonded hollow points that pass the FBI's penetration tests instead of the 90-grain FMJs.

I guess my points are as follows:
- it's only worth owning if you have it with you
- there's a very real trade-off between firepower and ease of carry/concealment
- what looks good in the store or on paper might be a real bitch to deal with when you try to conceal it for any length of time
- be realistic about the amount of training you're going to do, and what you're going to be capable of in the confusion/stress/excitement/fog of a life threatening situation


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bigmaxx
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #165016 - 26/07/10 11:46 PM

Well, I cant get a Remington 870 in my pocket, but I can my model 37 S&W! My prefered defensive handgun is a Glock 21 (.45 acp +p), 3rd generation with nite sights. I sometimes carry a Ruger Speed Six in .357 Magnum. Don't underestimate revolvers. They are great defensive tools. I also own and carry: Ruger LCP, Glock 19, Ruger Super Blackhawk SS 4 5/8" Magnaport.

--------------------
One day at a time...


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Daryl_S
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: bigmaxx]
      #165018 - 26/07/10 11:56 PM

I firmly believe the BEST self defence handgun for anyone is one that has sufficient power, and that can be shot accurately and swiftly by you.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a spaniel without ears" King George V


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