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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Handguns
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Tightloop
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Reged: 24/06/06
Posts: 74
Loc: Spring, Tx...
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: bonanza]
      #65633 - 10/11/06 01:19 PM

It depends a great deal on your level of competency and your committment to learn a specific platform...the .45 was developed to shoot people and has been doing a good job since 1905....it is the almost perfect combination of power and comtrolability...and the DAO guns might be a tad bit safer in a home with someone who is not going to master the platform, but SERIOUS handgunners of the defensive nature will look long and hard at the single action 1911 or clone in .45 ACP...take the time to master the pistol and the cartridge and you will not be disappointed...carried one in Nam, and have shot one in competition for a lot of years...shot a burgler with one in '74 and it did a great job there too.

Just my .02 worth..

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500grains
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 475Guy]
      #66483 - 07/12/06 03:00 AM

Quote:

Nitro, you bring up an interesting point. Stateside, it is commonly called the 21 Feet rule discovered and put forth on paper by then-peace officer, Dennis Tueller of Salt Lake City PD, Utah.



21 feet? 7 yards? Some forumites allow elephants to come closer before pulling the trigger, let alone humans.

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500NE_Classic
.224 member


Reged: 28/10/06
Posts: 7
Loc: Texas
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 500grains]
      #66522 - 07/12/06 03:51 PM

Although in the past I carried concealable autos ( Devel 9mm, Detonics .45, AMT Backup .45, Glock 20C 10mm, etc, etc)
I do not work at shooting as I once did, I don't shoot "fun house" combat ranges anymore ,ala the earlier years of practical pistol competitions.
Infact , I don't shoot pistols much at all any more (though today I fanned 3 cylinders out of an italian Colt Copy just to see if I could still do it) .
Truth is I just don't work at being hangun proficient like I used to.
So, where am I going with this?
Well, I dont want to worry about a non locked slide , nor a non engaged mag, nor a decocker nor a saftey, nor a weak mag spring. nor a stove-pipe , nor a dud ,nor-- you get the drift.
Sooo, I've gone back to wheel guns.
.44 Chater Bulldog cut down to 2", .38 airwt Mod 38 S&W pinned barrel (+P's, yeah I know you aren't supposed to shoot +P's in an airwt) etc

Don't get me wrong, I love my autos, but I don't work at it any more, so if I'm tire or half asleep, or whatever---I don't have to think or worry about mechanicals--just point and shoot.

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Tightloop
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Reged: 24/06/06
Posts: 74
Loc: Spring, Tx...
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 500NE_Classic]
      #66556 - 08/12/06 06:47 AM

You must answer the question for yourself....but how much time, effort, energy, and dedication is your life or the life of a loved one worth? Is it worth getting the Best defensive pistol, chambered for the Best defensive round, and then mastering those two things till you can do it when you are sleepy, tired, whatever...when you have a master level of profiency with the 1911 platform and the .45ACP, you do not have to worry about the mags, the slide, anything, it is just as reliable, if not moreso than any revolver...

Not to be arguementative about it, but it sounds to me like you don't need a defensive pistol, you need a big dog, and the police on speed dial...

Just remember that if you called am ambulance, the police and a pizza place, the pizza guy would get there first, the ambulance second and the police last...so you make the call..

Just like hunting and shooting dangerous game...there is NO magic bullet...it ALL comes down to having the proper gear, profiency and the will to do the right thing when the time comes...sure you don't live in NYC or on the Left Coast?????? They share the same ideology you do...

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allenday
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Reged: 18/04/04
Posts: 318
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Tightloop]
      #66621 - 09/12/06 02:37 AM

Good comments........

A big part of the answer depends upon how much practice and training you're willing to invest in. I don't consider the 1911 to be a good platform for someone who is going to take a casual approach to skills development. For the person who simply wants to buy a defensive handgun, shoot it a bit, make sure that it's sighted-in in case he should ever need it, then clean it and put it up until an emergency arises, there are several good and safe alternatives.

The HK P7-M8, Sig, and Kahr autos as well as S&W J-frame revolvers are good, simple, reliable guns that are straight-forward to use and very safe -- although until someone manages to invent the fool-proof fool...........well

For my own purposes, my favorite carry/defense handgun is a Commander-size 1911 in 45 ACP. I'm 49 years old, I grew up shooting a 1911 on the family farm, and on our place, we shot a LOT. After some thirty years of use, thousands and thousands of rounds fired, and at least a couple dozen 1911s owned, the operation and use of the 1911 is second-nature to me. I've tried just about every other make of auto-pistol, and I've gotten rid of everything else.

With proper training and sufficient practice, I think the 1911 in 45 ACP is the ultimate defensive pistol, and it's incredibly durable, and it'll stand up to abuse that would shut a revolver down totally. It's not unusual for a well cared for 1911 to hold up to 100,000 rounds of ammo and STILL shoot with good accuracy. In contrast, the U.S. Army has noted "catastrophic failure" of the Beretta pistol (that the 1911 was dropped in favor of) after just 3,000 rounds! So the army went from a far more durable pistol in a far more effective caliber to a problematic junker.

As I understand it from our men in the middle-east, there are two kinds of sholdiers on duty who carry pistols: Those that carry and 1911, and those who wish they did..........

AD

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Tightloop
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Reged: 24/06/06
Posts: 74
Loc: Spring, Tx...
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: allenday]
      #66625 - 09/12/06 03:50 AM

I am similar to you in my appreciation for the 1911 platform...have shot something over one million rounds of .45ACP since 1977 both in competition and practice...the platform is not for those that want easy or simple...it is something that needs to be studied and mastered...not for the stupid or the lazy...but once you have achieved a level of mastery, it is the almost perfect self defense handheld weapon...Mine is a 70 Series Combat (steel) Commander with all the trick features, (which are not for everyone either), but they work for me...

Being an advocate of the late Jeff Cooper, and having taken lots of courses and study under his hand, I believe you can't do much better unless it is to have more than one 1911...but to each his own...

It is not the first, nor will it be the last bad call the military makes...the M16 is another one..but we'll save that for another discussion...

Self defense is a mindset as much as anything...refusing to be a victim...and it starts way before you start carrying for self defense...the decision to shoot or not is made long before the situation comes up...and when it does, those that hesitate are lost...as the saying goes in my neck of the wood: Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6...

While the perfect defense handgun has not yet been made, and while we each have our preferred weapons, you have to remember that even a .22 in your pocket is better than the .44 Mag on your dresser at home when you really need it..

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pistolchamp
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Reged: 27/02/07
Posts: 19
Loc: Texas, USA
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #72628 - 27/02/07 02:04 PM

WOW! a truly varied set of opinions. I live in Texas where the rules are pretty simple, get a concealed carry permit and carry what you like... with the limitation that the state licenses you for a revolver or any handgun over 32 caliber... interesting eh?

By the bed is a Glock 21 in 45 acp loaded with Federal hydroshocks, because tis powerful, accurate and both my wife and I can shoot it instantly, in the back pocket of my jeans is a Kahr PM9, mainly because its little, the 9m/m is a lot better than a stick and I like it. The wifey refuses to carry outside the house or off the ranch.

When meandering around the woods or ranch I carry the Glock 21 or if considering a bit of hunting a Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt with very good handloads for deer, hogs, etc.

I have a safe full of handguns, but, these few get the nod nearly every time.

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475Guy
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Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 500grains]
      #73073 - 04/03/07 10:39 AM

Dan, that's 21 ft only with a man carrying a knife. It doesn't take long for a dude under the influence to cover that ground and stick you with that knife. In the training world, some police academies and many private training facilities practice knife defense. In some training scenarios, a guy will come at you with a dummy knife and you try to get him with good hits using paintball rounds before he sticks you. There's about a 90% chance he'll stick you at least once if not more and kill you. When I got to be a "knife wielder", I bowled almost everybody over and "got" them. Convicted felons in our prisons practice knife work and gun disarms when the C.O.'s aren't watching.

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: 475Guy]
      #73076 - 04/03/07 11:09 AM

I have carried all kinds of handguns and have recently been shooting a modified Browning HI Power in 40S&W and like it alot.
It just like a 1911 but needs the trigger redone due to its basic magazine safety design.Rides on my hip well too.
Not a glock or Sig or HK but reliable, accurate,and I can shoot it well.

If you don't want to mess with maintaining a semiauto shooting a S&W revolver can be great fun and with its ergonomics some hammerless versions can be shot multiple times from inside a coat pocket! My wife carries one regularly.

Ultimately is all about attitude. How much does it matter to you to find some combo that works?

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (04/03/07 11:11 AM)

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dale
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Reged: 28/02/06
Posts: 341
Loc: logan W.V.
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: hoppdoc]
      #73110 - 04/03/07 05:20 PM

Hello Gentlemen,

This is a very interesting discussion. Though the years I have never been able to settle for one specific pistol but have narrowed it down to several favorites that I choose depending on different circumstances. In no particular order:
Browning P-35 14 shot 9mm
Para Ordiance lda 10 shot double action 45
S&W 6906 10 shot double action 9mm
S&W 37 airweight cheif 38sp. (first one up a shotshell)
German made 38 derringer (first shot a shotshell)
Walther ppk doubleaction 380
Walther TPH doubleaction 22
Bauer 25auto
Colt woodsman 4" 22
Could be I'm just pistol crazy

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hoppdoc
.400 member


Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: dale]
      #73117 - 04/03/07 08:02 PM

What I take is dependent on what I wear and what is most concealable for those clothes. Guess thats why so many handguns---

The hot days of summer due not promote the concealment of certain rigs.If you are down to a t-shirt and shorts you have to make some compromises.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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Savuti_One_Shot
.300 member


Reged: 24/01/07
Posts: 139
Loc: Florida
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: hoppdoc]
      #73236 - 06/03/07 10:20 AM

Since the question was about handguns, I'll resist the temptation to discuss rifles and shotguns.

For concealed carry in this hot climate I've adopted the Kahr PM9, very small and just over a lb.

As a car gun, Taurus 2" Titanium 41 Mag.

In the night stand, Sig 220 45 with tritium sights.

For mowing the weeds around the house, where the most likely threat is a snake, S+W airweight 32 Mag with 3 of my shot loads and 3 85 gr HPs.

However, the handgun is purely a reactive weapon. If time permits, I'll retrieve a long gun to address the situation.

475guy is absolutely right about the 21 ft rule. Never let a cutting tool get any closer.

I had to laugh about knee and shoulder shots regardless of caliber. In the US, during the after-shooting analysis, that would be taken as prima facie evidence tha you were NOT in fear of your life, otherwise you would have killed the assailant. Even if a grand jury fails to indict, everything you own will belong to the "poor wounded victim".

SOS

--------------------
"I've this damned cannon." - Robert Wilson

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 1791
Loc: Southeastern USA
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Savuti_One_Shot]
      #73253 - 06/03/07 03:42 PM

For a carry gun in hot climates I agree, the Kahr PM9 is a
great pocket gun.

A hammerless S&W airweight with a Barami grip is fun as well.

In colder climate conditions with light overclothes a smaller 1911 IWB with a "clip it" attachment can work if it rides properly.

With overclothes a "inside the belt", outside the jean rig for a big semiauto works well.I like safeties on my guns to avoid reholstering surprises ala Glock so the HK compact, Browning, and para-ord limited get the nod.I find the reworked Para only reliable with ball loads.Soft points need not apply.Thus the Browning and HK get the usual carry duty.A Surefire flashlight and additional mag can go elsewhere on the large belt if one feels so inclined but thats getting HEAVY.

It always helps to "be prepared".A man needs to have options.

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (06/03/07 03:44 PM)

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bigdog
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Reged: 05/02/06
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Loc: Southern Illinois
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: hoppdoc]
      #79169 - 22/05/07 02:10 PM

Nothing beats a Glock 20 with 15 shots of 10mm.Lots of power for a main gun. An excellent back up is a Rorbough 9mm. 6 shots of 9mm on a beefed up Seecamp frame and really really small.

--------------------
Kyle, I love you buddy, Dad

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #79183 - 22/05/07 05:03 PM

I was thinking about a Steyr MA-1 recently because they were available at a huge discount on CDNN Incestments for a while but my wife is small and we needed something that either of us would be able to use if required at home (I live in a Communist state with no carry permits at all.) I couldn;t get any opinions anywhere as they are probably too new for them to have been used to any extent by experienced shooters.

My business partner and good friend made the decision for me - he gifted me a 38 revolver for my birthday. Now, it's going to be fun shooting it and getting my wife to do that as well whenever we can.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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hoppdoc
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #79189 - 22/05/07 09:35 PM

My wife likes the Kahr in a 9mm.A 38 S&W snub is great with A Barami/Tyler grip/grip adapter for IWB carry.

Find what you like but whatever you do--shoot it alot!!
Shooting it has to be as natural as breathing!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

Edited by hoppdoc (22/05/07 09:35 PM)

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Swampfox
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Loc: South Germany
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: bigdog]
      #79224 - 23/05/07 05:09 AM

Bigdog,
I agree,this is my absolute favorite Handgun.Not nice,but a perfect Workingmachin.I own the Glock 20 now since years and i like it more and more.
The Glock has a deep aiming line and shoots controllable also with hard handloads.
But i live in a very peacefull area and don't have to carry the pistol all the time.i only carry when i hunt Wild boars as a back up.

--------------------
" As long as there's lead in the air there's hope".

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Shanster
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Reged: 02/10/06
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Loc: Seattle WA
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Swampfox]
      #79345 - 25/05/07 02:37 AM

Well lets see for home defense it is a glocksicle(33 round mag) 17 9mm with glock light and laser.
For concealed carry a Kimber CDP 45 with Laser grips a Smith Air weight 642 in 38+P and a Keltec 380 that I carry in my wallet pocket. Choice depends on weather and area . the kel tech is usually always with me. IF I NEED MORE MOVE OR BRING MY DOUBLE RIFLE.

Shan

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hoppdoc
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Reged: 02/03/06
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Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Shanster]
      #79366 - 25/05/07 10:36 AM

The best handgun is one is the one you have on you when you need it.

Always carry a semiauto rifle shooting a rifle cartridge in the truck or car.This vehicle gun is your REAL backup gun to deal with most scenarios!!

--------------------
An armed man is a citizen of his country, an unarmed man just a subject.

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littlbigd
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Reged: 04/02/07
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Loc: Anchorage, AK
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: hoppdoc]
      #79784 - 02/06/07 05:57 PM

When it comes to combat shooting I think sticking with the tried and true weapons is always your best course of action. There is a reason that of all of the different assault rifles in the world 90% of the fighting forces use either an AK or an AR. These weapons are proven.

The same goes with pistols. 90% of the tactical community uses either a 1911 or a Glock. When making a choice for a tactical pistol I consider only these two weapons and then it comes down to operator training as has been mentioned in numerous other posts in this thread. The 1911 is great if you are willing to devote about 80 hours of formal training and 5000 rds to learning how to operate it efficiently or just buy a Glock - which works great, is reliable and will do the job.

I personally carry a 1911 when given a choice and a Glock when issued.


I think you can see from this thread that there is no 'best'. Although from a practical stand point I would have to go with the Glock for someone starting off with tactical handgun shooting. Another strike against the 1911 which hasnt been mentioned yet is that to get a 1911 working properly for combat applications you need a $1100 to $2000 weapon. Again though - I come from the chuch of the raven and nothing compares to a custom .45

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475Guy
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Reged: 22/08/03
Posts: 1088
Loc: Kali, US
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: littlbigd]
      #79785 - 02/06/07 06:13 PM

Church of the Raven, huh? You been to GunSite?

--------------------
Lo do they call to me,
They bid me take my place among
them in the Halls of Valhalla,
Where the brave may live forever.

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Mike_Johnson
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Reged: 17/10/09
Posts: 104
Loc: York, Pa
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: iqbal]
      #143924 - 19/10/09 07:57 AM

I have personally been a fan of the .45acp for many years but I have recently gone through a down sizing of my gun collection (still in progress) and for personal defense I use the following:

Sig 226 Combat with extended grip and 20 round mag in 9mm. This is a full size pistol and the first full size 9mm I have used for self protection. I at one time carried a Rohrbaugh all the time but I sold it. This is a big pistol and though I am 6'3", I use this pistol in the winter months under a coat.

Smith and Wesson 60-3 Pro in .357. 3 inch pistol with night sights, my 9 months of the year carry pistol. Two speed loaders in a jacket pocket for refills.

Bond Derringer in .357. I use this one quite alot and though its a two shot, it goes into the woods and on many hunting trips with me.

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Der_Jaeger
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Reged: 09/10/08
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Loc: SE Pennsylvania
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Mike_Johnson]
      #143928 - 19/10/09 08:50 AM


I carry a S&W model 640. .357 Mag with a 2" barrel

--------------------

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Der_Jaeger]
      #143937 - 19/10/09 11:54 AM

Have several Kimber 1911's in .45 I carry--have a Glock .40 in my desk drawer at my office--.357 S&W model 60 in my car..Remington assault 12 gauge under the bed with a H&K 45 on the nightstand..

When going hiking in bear country,usually more concerned about the 2 legged variety but still carry a lightweight S&W 44 Mag..

When just bumming around have been known to throw a little Ruger .380 in the shorts..easily concealed and there if you need it..

Have numerous others but those are the usual suspects...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Best handgun for self defense [Re: Ripp]
      #143993 - 20/10/09 07:44 AM

Got this in an email today and remembered this post--makes for a good read..

Ripp

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satellite/IMO_GA/Story_C/Social+Shotgun

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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