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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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Weibel
.224 member


Reged: 15/10/15
Posts: 10
Loc: Arizona, USA
98 Action
      #271840 - 18/10/15 01:43 PM

I would like to build a nitro express rifle for myself, and from what I have gathered the most plentiful, adaptable, and easiest to work with action on the market is the Mauser 98.

Could the 98 action handle a nitro round? If so, which caliber is the most ideal for one?

Thanks everyone


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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2109
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: 98 Action [Re: Weibel]
      #271841 - 18/10/15 02:20 PM

The GEW Length Mausers will work with some modification with the 375 H&H and also the 458 Winchester. The 404 Jeffery and the 416 Rigby can me made to work, but the magazine has to be modified extensively or replaced with a larger one. This can be quite costly.
The CZ 550 is a good one to start with too, but I understand CZ is shooting themselves in the foot by discontinuing most of them.

GEW length military Mausers are my all-time favorites, but they are not made as magnum length actions. As I said they can be used, but the work needed is extensive. The famous 416 Rigby used by Harry Selby was made on a standard GEW length action.

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Weibel
.224 member


Reged: 15/10/15
Posts: 10
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: 98 Action [Re: szihn]
      #271842 - 18/10/15 03:36 PM

What modifications would be needed for the 458 WIN?

How much on average could a used GEW Mauser cost me?

Thank you szihn!

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: 98 Action [Re: Weibel]
      #271854 - 19/10/15 12:21 AM

If you want to learn about converting a military Mauser to a sporter, then Roy Dunlap's book "Gunsmithing" is as good a place to start as any. It is not state of the art, or cutting edge technology, but I don't think that's what you're looking for at this point, anyway.

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Weibel
.224 member


Reged: 15/10/15
Posts: 10
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: 98 Action [Re: xausa]
      #271857 - 19/10/15 05:32 AM

xausa,

No. Not in the least bit. I really don't have the funds to buy a several thousand dollar nitro rifle. As long as it is accurate and functions, I can't complain about added bells and whistles.

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szihn
.400 member


Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2109
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming
Re: 98 Action [Re: Weibel]
      #271861 - 19/10/15 06:10 AM

The magazine on a GEW needs little (if any) work to make it function with the 458 Win. The feed lips of the receiver are what needs the work. You need to widen them and move the shoulders forward so the wide 458 cartridges are not "pinched" into the center of the mag.
I have done about 20 of them in my life and the work is a bit slow going, but not hard to do.
I have used a Dremal tool to grind the majority of the metal away where it needs to be relieved. Next you shape stones or even bars of steel to glue metal cutting paper to, as the finish stage of the work is done. It takes time but it's not hard to do. The ones I have done were as sooth to operate when they are done as the standard 8mm was before I started the work. You will also have to widen the feed ramp on the receiver, but only about .060" per side. Again it's easy to do with a Dermal with grinding burrs and then Cretex to finish.

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: 98 Action [Re: szihn]
      #271862 - 19/10/15 06:50 AM

My late gunsmith and friend, Harry Creighton, built a .458 on a military Mauser and it worked perfectly. The same was true of the .458 he built for me on a Springfield action. The Springfields and Enfields with their slightly longer magazines are perhaps easier to convert. Or if you really want to simplify things, I believe I have a pre-64 Winchester Model 70 action marked .458, which would only require fitting a barrel.

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eagle27
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Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1124
Loc: Nelson, New Zealand
Re: 98 Action [Re: xausa]
      #271869 - 19/10/15 04:28 PM

There are plenty of modern factory rifles around in cartridges suitable for African use, most chamber for 458 Win Mag. From your inquiry it appears you want to make up a rifle for a classic nitro express cartridge, which the 458 Win Mag is not, so not sure why this cartridge has come into the conversation. None of the American produced African cartridges fit the description "Nitro Express" as it originally came to being.

The early British big bore cartridges using smokeless nitrocellulose powder as opposed to black powder were called Nitro Expresses and many of the 40-50 calibre big bores rimless cartridges can be made on the standard length M98 action. The 404 Jeffery is probably the most 'famous' of these cartridges than can be relatively easy fitted although as pointed out by others, so can the 416 Rigby although it really stretches the standard actions.

I don't know that I have heard the 375H&H called a nitro express although it came out in the same era as the 404 and 416 so earns the right if it hasn't already got it.

PS it is a Nitro Express.

Edited by eagle27 (19/10/15 06:57 PM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26510
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 98 Action [Re: eagle27]
      #271874 - 20/10/15 01:15 AM

For a standard 98, the .416 Tailor shines.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TexasJohn
.300 member


Reged: 06/04/10
Posts: 166
Loc: Texas
Re: 98 Action [Re: DarylS]
      #271894 - 20/10/15 01:29 PM

I agree on the 416 Taylor.

--------------------
John

"In the Texas Oilfield, everything that does not kill me today, gets another chance tomorrow."

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Wanabebwana
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Reged: 11/01/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Canada
Re: 98 Action [Re: TexasJohn]
      #271952 - 22/10/15 02:19 PM

You need to decide on what you plan to hunt. The best factory rounds for the Mauser 98 are:
9.3x62
.375 Ruger
.416 Ruger
.458 Win Mag.
With more mods and expense.
.375 H&H
.404 Jeffrey
If you Handload
.400 H&H
.458 AR
Have more money to blow?
.465 H&H
.500 Jeffrey
Read up about these and see if there is a local smith that can put one together for you.
For a useful all round rifle you can use on elk and big bears .375 Ruger.
For Buffalo in Africa .416 Ruger.
For A classic pre-war style .404 Jeffrey.
To be the only kid on the block,(or in your State)with one .465 H&H
Max power with a classic .500Jeffrey.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26510
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 98 Action [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #271956 - 22/10/15 03:42 PM

+ a host of wildcats.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wanabebwana
.300 member


Reged: 11/01/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Canada
Re: 98 Action [Re: DarylS]
      #271981 - 23/10/15 12:53 PM

Whenever you build a quality rifle I would recommend a factory cartridge for availability in the field and for resale value. There are very few wildcats that are superior to factory cartridges for a hunting rifle. When someone picks a Mauser 98, instead of a Remington, Winchester or other action to build a gun from scratch it is only fitting that he selects a proven cartridge.
The .416 Ruger is superior to the Taylor in that it can produce the same velocity at lower pressures or more energy if needed. You can pick up a box at your local dealer and dies,cases and bullets are readily available at reasonable prices.
The.375 Ruger is a better choice for the 98 than the H&H because the action does not need to have any metal removed from the front receiver ring.( The .375 Dakota is slightly better but cases and dies are expensive).
For the Purist a .404 NE can be shoehorned into a 98 as Jeffrey did with his classic guns.
With more expense a .400 H&H .465 H&H can be adapted. They are newer rounds,2003, but are shorter than the .375 H&H.
A competent smith can even fit a .416 Rigby into a 98 by removing most of the metal from the rear of the action and limiting the COL to 3.6".

My personal choice would be the .404Jeffrey but again it depends on what you hunt.

The only Wildcats that might make sense for a DGR are .458 to .510 cal that use a larger diameter case than the Win. Mag.
The 450 G&A, .450 Rigby 2.5", the .458AR (Accurate Reloading)and the .460 A square(No longer in factory production)have no factory equivalents probably because a handloaded .458 Win Mag with a 480gr Woodleigh at 2150fps will do the job.

Edited by Wanabebwana (23/10/15 12:56 PM)

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26510
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 98 Action [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #271987 - 23/10/15 01:25 PM

In building a rifle on a 98 for hunting, I would not be choosing a .458 or larger. Even a .416 would be larger than I wanted for a hunting rifle. A stopping rifle is different and not generally needed by a hunter. Hunt well and shoot well, then the quarry is yours.

With that in mind, a .375 (or .9.3x62) would be perfect. They worked for too long, to stop working now.

The .375 Chatfield Taylor would work, as-would my .375/06IMP.

Each to his own here, I believe.

If your ammo doesn't show up or is stolen, ahhh - rent or borrow a rifle & ammo from the PH & carry on.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wanabebwana
.300 member


Reged: 11/01/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Canada
Re: 98 Action [Re: DarylS]
      #271988 - 23/10/15 01:54 PM

Weibel mentions building a "Nitro Express"on a Mauser 98. I asked him to specify it's purpose but he did not respond.I therefore assume he is referring to a heavy hitter.
The 9.3x62, 9.3x66, 9.3x64,.375 Ruger? No need to complicate things. Factory cartridges cover every
aspect of traditional hunting, target and long range.
I cannot think of any hunting factory cartridge from .17-.423 Cal that can be substantially improved by a Wildcat.
I would not want to try to sell or trade a .375 Wildcat (or any other) in my neck of the woods.
Tony of Tradex in Ontario had a custom built 9.3/.338 Lapua and paid $700 for the Dies and $300 for a reamer. When I asked him, why not use a .375 RUM or reduced load in a .378 WBY he answered I like the 9.3mm. Now he's had his fun he is having a hard time selling it. I see it at every gun show.To each his own.

Edited by Wanabebwana (23/10/15 02:10 PM)

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ColoradoMatt1
.300 member


Reged: 01/01/14
Posts: 129
Loc: Northern Colorado
Re: 98 Action [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #271993 - 23/10/15 04:40 PM

The 458 Win was designed to duplicate the 450 Nitro Express in a standard length action bolt gun. The 404's original load was designed to duplicarte the 450-400 Nitro Express. The 416 Rigby was designed to one-up Jeffrey with insignificantly less speed and power. The 416 Ruger slightly beats them both in a standard length action. For ease of conversion, and Factory load availability, I vote 458 Win and 416 Ruger. Duane Wiebe makes nice bottom metals for both, and he can point you in the right direction with feed work:

http://www.customgunandrifle.com/products/bottommetal/mauser-bottommetal

Matt

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26510
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 98 Action [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #272021 - 24/10/15 03:58 AM

I see your point Wannabebwana, however I happen to like the wildcats, like playing with them and if or whenever I get tired of one, a buddy of mine buys them, like the 9.5x68, and 7.62x57mm - now that WAS a fun experiment to play with.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Wanabebwana
.300 member


Reged: 11/01/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Canada
Re: 98 Action [Re: DarylS]
      #272052 - 24/10/15 11:00 AM

And I get your point Daryl. 30yrs ago there were a lot of worthwhile wildcats. I had a .375/.300 Win Mag. before it had a name. Chambered the barrel for .300 Win Mag and then reamed out neck with .375 H&H reamer. Perfect fit in Steyr Mauser 98. Sure it was fun to have but today I would just pick up a .375 Ruger reamer. I had a .340 Wby and I wanted a .338/.378KT at the time the fastest .338. Today we have the .338 RUM, Norma, Lapua, .338/.378 WBY and we also had the Imperial(now the wildcat .338 Edge). Decisions are emotional and personal.The action, the style of gun, the caliber. Just like picking a car or a woman.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39245
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 98 Action [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #272063 - 24/10/15 05:03 PM

Weibel

Seeing you want a "nitro express" round in a standard 98 actioned rifle which doesn't cost too much.

Some ideas I would consider myself. And keeping with your stated theme. Aiming at cartridges designed for a bolt action. I don't know what animal size or calibres you are thinking about but here is a few to consider.

The .318 Westley Richards. .330 calibre on a case not much different from a .30-06 sized case. Indeed .30-06 brass is said to be able to be used if original .318 WR headstamped and sized brass is not available. The original classic cartridge behind all the later pretenders such as the .338 Win Mag, .338/06 etc. A .30-06 could be converted with a new barrel and minimal work on the feeding, magazine. Others could comment on that. Projectiles from 180 grs to 250 grs. The 250 gr FMJs and RNSP were a standard in their day.

.404 Jeffery. .423 calibre. Originally loaded with a 400 gr projectile at about 2,150 fps, now loadable up to say about 2,400 fps. Able to be chambered in a standard M98 action.

.500 Jeffery. Again able to be chambered in a standard length action. A true powerhouse.

.375 H&H Mag. The easiest NE round to obtain.

I think all of the above do have NE designations as well ???

Most of the rounds we know as Nitro Express are rimmed, slim cartridges designed for the new fangled cordite sticks, as compared to black powder. Some of these were chambered into bolt actions but generally not the best idea and more gunsmithing required.

Some others to consider include various 9.5mm's/.375's.

All depends on what you are aiming for.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Reged: 27/04/08
Posts: 449
Loc: From the Kalahari to the USA
Re: 98 Action [Re: Weibel]
      #272076 - 24/10/15 10:37 PM

Harry Selbys famous 416 Rigby was built on a standard Mauser 98 action http://ezine.nitroexpress.info/NickuduFiles/Africa-PDF/Africa317.pdf

Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (24/10/15 10:38 PM)

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