Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: searcy's doubles

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)
mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: 500grains]
      #27253 - 04/03/05 05:34 PM

500 Grains/Marrakai,

I have had some correspondence with a member here who is a British dealer in fine guns and who sells a lot of them in the US. From what I have learned from him, I would think both of you are right. The gentleman in question may pitch in with his views on this topic but from what I have discussed with him, many dealers in the USA tend to sell guns that are old and close to retirement after picking them up at very low prices in the UK. I have seen several recommended lists that he has given me and the prices and quality (from the pictures) seem clearly better than those on most of the more famous US online catalogues. There may be heavily used old guns which are sometimes bought cheap and sold dear but he also has clients in the USA who buy pre 1898 guns in superb condition delivered right to their door over here.

And he is also very appreciative of the quality of Searcy guns - we have talked about the discussions on their quality on these and other forums and he gives them a solid thumbs up. Just my very amateur 2 c and I hope that he would post his comments on this topic.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #27255 - 04/03/05 09:14 PM

I probably should have added to my previous comments that I am a very firm believer in british made firearms and in particular their shot guns and double rifles.
They have set the standard that every gunsmith and manufacturer should endeavour to equal or better.

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
new_guy
Sponsor


Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: jblok]
      #27259 - 05/03/05 08:50 AM

In reply to:

Butch must be very close to NASA where he can get some really good glue to glue the ribs on...




I believe that was/is Geoff Miller (Rogue River aka Rigby (that's a stretch)) that was using glue for the rib/barrels.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #27261 - 05/03/05 09:12 AM

Friends, I have received the following response from my friend on this subject which I am posting here in it's entirety - I am sure that it would help everyone here as we are all definitely on the right track. Good hunting everyone!

Quote

Mehul as you know I joined the nitroexpress.com forum
on your recommedation and use it for entertainment and
to learn - some of the guys on the site have a
fantastic knowledge of double guns and I am always
willing to learn more. Just because I am a dealer does
not mean that I am a world authority on the subject -
I know a lot more than some though. I do not want to
use the site as an advertising media as I feel that to
do so would diminish any contributions I care to make
however if anyone wishes to contact me privately via
you that is fine.
Because of all the above I`d be grateful if you could
post this contribution for me annonomously - in its
entirety if you like.
The comparison between a fine English gun and a
modern American gun - for example - is the same as
comparing a Bentley and a Buick. Both get the job
done, both might have the same performance but the
Bentley has a substantial handbuilt component, fine
leather and premium wood. Detail and hand finishing
are expensive.
I have American clients who own both English doubles
and one or more Searcys. The Searcy is a fine gun and
I really admire the guy for producing something new
and different AND for standing 100% behind his guns.
I`ve handled a couple of Searcys, my clients tell me
that they perform admirably in the field and I am
convinced that at $8,500 there isn`t a finer gun for
the money. Would I buy one ? We have a couple of Jeep
Grand Cherokees which are fine cars.....but I still
covet a Bentley. Make of that what you will.
It is an unfortunate fact that a great many of the
English guns that are exported to the USA - especially
shotguns - are utter crap. Guns that are worn out and
even sometimes out of proof and therefore illegal for
retail in the UK are exported to the USA. Often the
barrels are re-blued, the actions are colour case
hardened and the stocks refinished and a hefty price
tag is put on them. The guns are still worn-out crap
though.
My advice to anyone wanting a used English gun is to
buy it from a reputable dealer - either in the UK, USA
or Australia. There are plenty of them and they all -
like Butch Searcy - stand behind the guns they sell.
Be wary of anything that has been refinished - you`ll
notice that the majority of the top dealers sell their
guns in original condition. Buying `sight unseen` from
an auction is a potential minefield. Auctioneers are
obliged to detail any major faults but that doesn`t
tell the whole story. All guns need to be personally
inspected. If you can`t attend an auction in person
appoint a reputable agent - the fee he charges will be
a hell of a sight less than the costs involved in
putting right a gun with problems.
A fine English ( or French - or Italian ) gun is a
work of art and a joy to own and to use. They are
expensive because of the build quality, the top grade
walnut, the engraving and the amount of hand work that
goes into them. A used gun also has that bit of
history and mystique attached. Take the `Snob value`
away from a best gun and it is still a best gun. If
you want and can afford one fine. If you can`t afford
or don`t want one then get a Searcy or other
contemporary gun. To attack either on the grounds of
cost or functionality is ridiculous
One of the contributors to this topic said something
to the effect that his `Westley Richards has made
history and his Searcy is making history`. Beautifully
put. In fifty year his Searcy will be a better gun
than it is now - fifty years of use and handling will
make the Searcy feel and look better and, who knows,
it might have made some history too. The English gun
will still be around though, will still be beautiful
and will still be eminently useable.

End quote.


--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #27263 - 05/03/05 10:56 AM

Mehul,

Thanks for posting your friends thoughts. It was most informative.

Erik


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39300
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: EricD]
      #27266 - 05/03/05 02:28 PM

Firstly I want to say that oneday I would like to own or have owned some of the great modern makers of double rifles. Heym, Chapuis, Merkel, Searcy, Krieghoff and others. As well as adding to the vintage double rifles, currently only a Jeffrey. Who wouldn't like to have a vintage Holland & Holland, Westley Richards or Purdey?!

What I don't understand is the vehemence aganst brands of som double rifle owners to other makers. Some of it is so totally over the top it must be complete bullshit and of course have a commercial motive.

In the industry I work in we avoid blatant criticism of competitors as it results in a negative industry as the other side can ANYTIME do the same. Everyone looses.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: EricD]
      #27297 - 06/03/05 03:42 AM

Erik D,

Thanks. I just wanted to assure everyone that they were right.

NitroX,

I agree with you completely on the best guns. I doubt that there is anyone who wouldn't want to have double rifles from H&H, WR, Boss, Purdey or David MacKay Brown. May there be more of them to hunt with in the future!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
510Wells
.275 member


Reged: 16/11/03
Posts: 62
Loc: Gold Bar, Wa.
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: Jeast]
      #27304 - 06/03/05 04:34 AM

Hello,

I own a Searcy PH in 500NE and couldn't be happier with the gun. I buy guns to shoot so the fact that the gun is more or less custom stocked to me is a big plus at Butchs price. The wood is not quite exhibition quality but very close. There are some little cosmetic things that aren't perfect, but as I said I bought the gun to use. Even then the piece is VERY good looking and an impressive tool to handle.

Is it a high end Britsh or German double? No, of course not and it feels different than they do. But I'll bet it's a whole lot stronger. And being stocked to me it comes up like a fine shotgun and the target is lined up perfectly in the sight pattern. I think inside 20 yards (or so) I wouldn't even need the sights the gun comes up so good.

Butch is a great guy to do business with (and to know) and stands 100% behind his product. Will the gun apperciate like a old Brit? probably not, but I'd bet if it's kept in good shape that it won't loose any value and would think it will go up at a rate better than inflation. That is assuming the gun is held onto for 3 to 5 years. Turning it around in like 6 to 9 months will probably cost you some money.

Hope that helps.

Roi

--------------------
The only constant is change.

Member DRSS


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: 510Wells]
      #27320 - 06/03/05 11:51 AM

In reply to:

What I don't understand is the vehemence aganst brands of som double rifle owners to other makers. Some of it is so totally over the top it must be complete bullshit and of course have a commercial motive.




Was there some of that in this thread? Which post was it?

I doubt anyone has a commercial motive in this. Do you think Searcy is paying his customers $20 per post for pro-Searcy or anti-Purdey comments? Do you think Marraki gets a commission from H&H? Not likely.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3495
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: 500grains]
      #27340 - 06/03/05 04:38 PM

In reply to:

Marraki gets a commission from H&H




Hey, don't tell the world, 500grains!
Now everyone will want their Royals upgraded with new ones each year!!



--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rell
.375 member


Reged: 03/12/04
Posts: 642
Loc: Oyster Bay, NY, USA
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: Marrakai]
      #27372 - 07/03/05 12:52 AM

Is it really fare to compare a PH Searcy to a best english gun? I've seen a few C&H's, Army Navy and William Evans guns that where definatly working guns and compare quite well to a PH searcy.

While I've not seen a deluxe box lock or a sidelock from searcy, I'd like to compare one of them to a best gun.

They still cost half to a third of a english gun and for 20k or so I can forgive a little less fit and finish, as long as it shoots as well as my benchrest rifle(Joke).

Does any one own or has handled one of butchs presidential grades or his sidelock best guns? Maybe they would be a better comparison.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: jblok]
      #27579 - 10/03/05 10:29 AM

In reply to:

Butch must be very close to NASA where he can get some really good glue to glue the ribs on... Regulating also seems to be a problem as soon as they are shipped a great distance (like over the Atlantic) Unfortunately all the great game is also over there!




Now, here we have someone talking through his butt, because his head knows better than the above statement! DUMBBBBBBBBB!

Nothing on a searcy is glued, and Butch has absolutely nothing to do with NASA. You, my fine friend, are simply confused! The glued wedges, and ribs were the ROUGE RIVER doubles, made by the man who now makes the US Rigby. The Rigby is not glued either, but soldered just like the Searcy,and all others in the double rifle field, except the Blaser, which has a rubber like material between the barrels.

I would like you to give me one verifiable instance of the ribs comming off or the regulation shifting, on a Searcy after being shipped over seas! I'd bet my next retirement check you can't, because, the fact is, it is simply not true!

BIG WIND COME FROM EMPTY CAVE!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: new_guy]
      #27608 - 11/03/05 03:17 AM

In reply to:

I believe that was/is Geoff Miller (Rogue River aka Rigby (that's a stretch)) that was using glue for the rib/barrels.




New-Guy, he did, in fact, glue the Rouge River together! The glue he used was the very expensive, heat resistant, glue made for NASA to hold the heat tiles on space capsules returning into the Earth's atmosphere. It was a great Idea, that simply didn't work out very well! You had to get it right the first time, or live with the result! The Rogue River rifles were notoreous for not regulateing well! I believe Geoff Miller was an engineer/machinest for NASA before he started Rouge River!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
new_guy
Sponsor


Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #27616 - 11/03/05 05:36 AM

so is he gluing the new "rigby's"?

uuhhhh that gives me the chills to say that after seeing his merkels with "Rigby" engraved on them

For the record, those are built on Merkel's 20ga shotgun frame!



--------------------
www.heymUSA.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: new_guy]
      #27623 - 11/03/05 01:55 PM

He is not gluing Rigbys - they are soldered.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: new_guy]
      #27721 - 13/03/05 08:52 AM

In reply to:

so is he gluing the new "rigby's"?

uuhhhh that gives me the chills to say that after seeing his merkels with "Rigby" engraved on them

For the record, those are built on Merkel's 20ga shotgun frame!





No! He is not glueing the Rigbys together!

I fail to see what gives you the chills with the Rigby being built on Merkel actions! The Merkel action is simply a Anson&Deeley box lock action, with a Greener cross bolt third fastener! The same actions bought to build half the Britt doubles for years. It is size specific to the 470 NE/500NE double rifle, and it is just that Merkel builds their 20 ga shotgun on the same A&D rifle action! You don't have to worry about the Merkel A&D action! Of the Britt rifles made over the years, very few were made on their own actions, most were Webley, or A&D, and most barrel blanks were bought from KRUPP! The action is one of the better things about the Rigby. The general construction, and Price is where the problem is with the Cal Rigby. In a plain field grade, at the same price, I'd rather have a Merkel than a California Rigby. I'd rather have a $9500 Searcy PH than either of them!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #27723 - 13/03/05 09:38 AM

Well put, DUGABOY1, except I am not sure I would take the Searcy over a Merkel. Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of classic DR's, but in a new production, "entry level" DR I think Merkel shines. It can be had for a good bit less than the Searcy.

Just MHO.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JohnTheGreek
.300 member


Reged: 16/11/04
Posts: 167
Loc: Cairo, Egypt
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: CptCurl]
      #27742 - 13/03/05 10:31 PM

Curl,

I am really inclined to agree with you. I know of a place selling NEW merkel .470s at $7200. Do those on this board believe that the Searcy is 30+% again higher quality than the Merkel?

Best,

JohnTheGreek


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rusty
.333 member


Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: JohnTheGreek]
      #27749 - 14/03/05 02:42 AM

I'd like to someday, own a Searcy 450/400 3 inch with proper 26" barrels. As far as I know Butch is the only maker offering 26" barrels.

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!

DRSS


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
new_guy
Sponsor


Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #27760 - 14/03/05 12:01 PM

In reply to:

In reply to:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

so is he gluing the new "rigby's"?

uuhhhh that gives me the chills to say that after seeing his merkels with "Rigby" engraved on them

For the record, those are built on Merkel's 20ga shotgun frame!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



No! He is not glueing the Rigbys together!

I fail to see what gives you the chills with the Rigby being built on Merkel actions! The Merkel action is simply a Anson&Deeley box lock action, with a Greener cross bolt third fastener! The same actions bought to build half the Britt doubles for years. It is size specific to the 470 NE/500NE double rifle, and it is just that Merkel builds their 20 ga shotgun on the same A&D rifle action! You don't have to worry about the Merkel A&D action! Of the Britt rifles made over the years, very few were made on their own actions, most were Webley, or A&D, and most barrel blanks were bought from KRUPP! The action is one of the better things about the Rigby. The general construction, and Price is where the problem is with the Cal Rigby. In a plain field grade, at the same price, I'd rather have a Merkel than a California Rigby. I'd rather have a $9500 Searcy PH than either of them!




Careful Mac, you're gonna give yourself an anurism.

I'm afraid you merged two statements that I made. It isn't the action they're built on that gives me the chills... It's comparing what Rigby used to be - to a Merkel double with Rigby engraved on it (for $20K). That's what gives me the chills.

It's kinda like Ford buying Porsche and then putting the Porsche logo on the hood of a Mustang - and trying to sell it for $60K.

Now, if you don't understand that, then I'm afraid I'm not capable of explaining why it gives me the chills.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: new_guy]
      #27765 - 14/03/05 02:37 PM

None of the new made double rifles have the feel of an original[made between the wars] British Double rifle. Even the British rifles made in the 1950's to present do not have that magical feel.
I cannot understand why the modern made double rifle makers just do not duplicate the original British doubles rifle.

IMHO the British double rifle made between say, 1920 to 1940, is the finest hunting rifle ever made.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ThomasEdwards
.300 member


Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Newport Beach, CA
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: NE450No2]
      #27766 - 14/03/05 03:01 PM

...seems as if the situation you just described has its roots in the passing of the 'old age' of guilded craftsmen (many of whom were born into the trade and who were infused with generations of know-how) into the 'new age' of modern, automated, 'one-size-fits-all' corporatized-craftsmen/women (where the profit objective, as opposed to craft perfection, reigns supreme)...

...have seen it in many industries...textiles, shoes, leather goods, optics, automotive, etc...

...all of which bodes well for collectors of fine english doubles (circa the time periods you mentioned...and probably even earlier from the late 1800s to just before wwii) which embody hundreds of years of skill and development, and which should merely increase in value over time (like an authentic samurai sword)...imho...



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3495
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: NE450No2]
      #27770 - 14/03/05 08:34 PM

NE450No2, you have hit the nail squarely on the head IMHO.

Take a contempory modern-made American double, shave a pound of steel off the muzzles, add a couple of pounds between the hands, and take those damn mercury recoil-reducers out of the buttstock and toss 'em into the nearest trash-can. Then you will have the 'feel' (or pointability, or liveliness) approaching a good Brit double.

American double-rifle customers are their own worst enemy here: they demand slim actions, light-weight guns for carrying, yet expect low recoil, and are scared of thin barrel-walls at the muzzles. The result is a fore-gone conclusion!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: Marrakai]
      #27783 - 15/03/05 08:20 AM

In reply to:

those damn mercury recoil-reducers out of the buttstock




What company does that?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Oldsarge
.300 member


Reged: 07/02/05
Posts: 180
Loc: SoCal Borderlands
Re: searcy's doubles [Re: 500grains]
      #27869 - 17/03/05 10:49 AM

I believe that the only American double rifles that used mercury buffers were made by Rogue River in the pre-California Rigby days. I'm afraid that Marrakai is either having apoplexy over a phantom or building a strawman to demolish. Not that it matters, the original question concerned Butch Searcy and he doesn't use them.

--------------------
Sarge

Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 72 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  CptCurl 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating: *****
Topic views: 10205

You rated this topic a 5.
Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved