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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mannlicher Discussion forum & Archive
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deeangeo
.300 member


Reged: 09/05/15
Posts: 207
Loc: United Kingdom
Now I'm curious and want to know more!
      #264814 - 11/05/15 07:48 AM

Recently I bought a Mannlicher-Schönauer M1903 Takedown rifle. Oesterr. Waffenfabr.- Ges. Steyr

It is (as all M1903's are in 6.5x54MSch Cal.) it's not quite original in that the rifle was first supplied with a metal butt plate & trap with cleaning rods. The metal plate has been replaced many years ago with a composite butt pad & of course no cleaning rods. But, other than that, the rifle is absolutely original and in quite decent condition - both wood and barrel.
The action is slick as can be...the best!

I took it all to bits this morning and gave it a damn good cleaning.......I love the smell of bore cleaner in the morning! - ......PS....Ssssch....I haven't told my wife of this acquisition yet!! As far as she knows, 'it's an old rifle, been knocking about for years'....and that's the truth. Just not knocking about in my house.

It has a serial number 16020 and a further code stamp underneath as follows: 1779 ' 22 further, underneath again, there is also a stamp: C6.5 ' 22

I am inclined to think, but do not know....1779 is (I think) the Austrian proof house stamp and the ' 22 is the year in which it was proofed - i.e. 1922
The rifle appears to have also been 'Nitroproofed' again in the UK and has a scrolled
(fancy) GV stamp as well as four other 'crown' type stamps. (I since have just discovered it means proofed in UK during King George V reign as Monarch, so 1922 is highly likely to be the year of manufacture)

I am possibly wrong & I understand that, but does anyone have a better idea?
There is very little real info. on the internet on MSch serial numbers...this is due to the unpleasantries of the 1939-1945 conflict when the factory and all its' records were destroyed during the bombing.

I haven't yet fired the rifle and currently am waiting arrival of reloading dies from the USA...also new Norma brass. I have some load data in mind and many thanks to Scotty and my previous records from 1985-1991 when I last owned a stutzen (carbine) version of M1903 MSch.
Cheers, deeangeo

Edited by deeangeo (11/05/15 05:02 PM)

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casper50
.400 member


Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1445
Loc: Alaska
Re: Now I'm curious and want to know more! [Re: deeangeo]
      #264817 - 11/05/15 08:01 AM

Congrats on the new rifle. I love these MS's. Can't wait to get my .375 2.5" imported from the UK. It will be my first large bore MS. I've owned lots of the 6.5's. Go take a nice roe buck with it to break it in.

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deeangeo
.300 member


Reged: 09/05/15
Posts: 207
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Now I'm curious and want to know more! [Re: casper50]
      #264819 - 11/05/15 08:05 AM

Thanks Casper50...my next trip to Scotland will be on the stags in September & I have every intention of getting my new acquisition to earn its keep..

--------------------
Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse, .25-06 Rem. Schmidt & Bender 8x56 & Nosler 110gn Accubond = Game Over!

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Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: Now I'm curious and want to know more! [Re: deeangeo]
      #264820 - 11/05/15 09:36 AM

Sounds like a beauty, I would have had a couple by now to, but Casper keeps beating me to them & others

Say I read some where that the 6.5X54MS was not legal on large game in the UK (might have been England) as the velocity was to low with the 160gr slug, which is crazy I know, is this true ?

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Iowa_303s
.400 member


Reged: 22/03/13
Posts: 1016
Loc: Iowa, USA
Re: Now I'm curious and want to know more! [Re: Sarg]
      #264822 - 11/05/15 11:17 AM

Sarg,
I believe, and please someone correct me if I'm wrong, the minimum velocity for deer in the UK is 2440 fps.
Not suprising that it just happens to be the velocity of .303 British MkVII load.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27005
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Now I'm curious and want to know more! [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #264826 - 11/05/15 01:44 PM

A Handload with a 140gr. Hornady SP would being home the venison, then.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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deeangeo
.300 member


Reged: 09/05/15
Posts: 207
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Now I'm curious and want to know more! [Re: DarylS]
      #264835 - 11/05/15 04:16 PM

Hi fellas, yes there was a 'deer act' by those that know about such things in Scotland 1963?? I believe. A combination of the MSch stutzen (short barrel) & 160gn bullet would not reach minimum MV & ME for the legal killing of deer in Scotland.

Scotland (extract from BASC info)
For roe deer, where the bullet must weigh at least 50 grains AND have a minimum muzzle velocity of 2,450 feet per second AND a minimum muzzle energy of 1,000 foot pounds may be used.
For all other deer of any species (red, sika, fallow) – the bullet must weigh at least 100 grains AND have a minimum muzzle velocity of 2,450 feet per second AND a minimum muzzle energy of 1,750 foot pounds.

Following the act the MSch fell out of favour and then of course more modern rifles from Steyr without the complication of fitting scopes over the 'split receiver' entered the market.

It's not hard to reload 130/140gn bullets to legal velocities and I have done so in the past.
I had a MSch stutzen from 1985-1991 and then stupidly sold the rifle to replace with a more modern Steyr...a Mod. L .243Win.
Now my plan is to load 129gn/140gn Hornady SST and shoot deer in Scotland with this 'Takedown' rifle - which of course has a longer barrel anyway.

England and Wales (extract from BASC info)
For Muntjac and Chinese Water deer only- a rifle with a minimum calibre of not less than .220 inches and muzzle energy of not less than 1000 foot pounds and a bullet weight of not less than 50 grains may be used.
For all deer of any species – a minimum calibre of .240 and minimum muzzle energy of 1,700 foot pounds is the legal requirement.

At present I'm trying to decide whether or not to ruin the rifle by the fitting of EAW scope mounts. !!!! & this is a tough decision. At present, no scope mounts have ever been fitted so the rifle is pretty untouched.
ATB

Edited by deeangeo (12/05/15 04:05 PM)

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deeangeo
.300 member


Reged: 09/05/15
Posts: 207
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Now I'm curious and want to know more! [Re: deeangeo]
      #264837 - 11/05/15 04:50 PM

By the way..if a metal 'butt stock plate with trapdoor' should be lying around anywhere..I'd buy it - hopefully for 'sensible' money.

Fitting it should I find one and assuming the butt hasn't been reworked to fit the composite butt pad - would almost bring the rifle back to original.
Of course these things are like rocking horse poo, but you never know eh!

--------------------
Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse, .25-06 Rem. Schmidt & Bender 8x56 & Nosler 110gn Accubond = Game Over!

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Now I'm curious and want to know more! [Re: deeangeo]
      #264844 - 11/05/15 08:53 PM

Yes, yours was proofed in 1922 as you suspect.

Here is a photo of the proofing on my Model 1903, S/N 4143, proofed in 1908:





And here is a view of the whole rifle, posted here in 2010: M1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer

Welcome to the forums.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1649
Loc: Finland
Re: Now I'm curious and want to know more! [Re: CptCurl]
      #264854 - 12/05/15 12:30 AM

PM sent to you Mr Deeangeo.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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deeangeo
.300 member


Reged: 09/05/15
Posts: 207
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Now I'm curious and want to know more! [Re: Igorrock]
      #264860 - 12/05/15 03:35 AM

Thanks for the corroboration CptCurl..my word your rifle is a real mint condition piece. Very nice indeed. Mine looks as though it's seen a fair bit of use, but isn't too knocked about at all considering its' 93 year history.
The barrel looks OK and I'll know more when I shoot it.

I certainly have my annual appointment with some Scottish red stags in late September & will be hoping for a couple of decent beast to take with this rifle.
Best wishes

--------------------
Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse, .25-06 Rem. Schmidt & Bender 8x56 & Nosler 110gn Accubond = Game Over!

Edited by deeangeo (12/05/15 03:36 AM)

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Now I'm curious and want to know more! [Re: deeangeo]
      #264869 - 12/05/15 11:02 AM

Yeah, mine is so close to mint I haven't found the courage to fire it. The buttplate is the only part showing any wear at all.

There is no mark of a cartridge on the face of the bolt:




I really do think I should build up the fortitude to shoot this rifle. I have dies, brass, bullets, and powder. But the beast is 107 years old!

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27005
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Now I'm curious and want to know more! [Re: CptCurl]
      #264871 - 12/05/15 12:00 PM

NICE!!!!!!!!
Bring it with you and leave it with me while you travel North - I'll "break it in" for you, then mail it back to you - promise. HA! - oh yeah - bring lots of ammo. LOL

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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deeangeo
.300 member


Reged: 09/05/15
Posts: 207
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Now I'm curious and want to know more! [Re: DarylS]
      #264874 - 12/05/15 03:37 PM

Wow...just so 'mint'! That is very rare. Nice photos too & such a kind thoughtful offer from Daryl S. LOL

I cannot work out how to post pics using the URL. and I have a great reluctance to utilise photobox...I just think it's a very invasive system.

--------------------
Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse, .25-06 Rem. Schmidt & Bender 8x56 & Nosler 110gn Accubond = Game Over!

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casper50
.400 member


Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1445
Loc: Alaska
Re: Now I'm curious and want to know more! [Re: deeangeo]
      #264880 - 12/05/15 06:47 PM

Deeangeo I use www.hunt101.com Have used it for over 10 years and never had any problems.

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deeangeo
.300 member


Reged: 09/05/15
Posts: 207
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Now I'm curious and want to know more! [Re: casper50]
      #265054 - 17/05/15 06:52 AM

images: My latest acquisition M1903 Takedown, me & a stag too. There's also a pic. of me with my M1903 stutzen a good few years ago.













--------------------
Blaser K95 Luxus Kipplaufbüchse, .25-06 Rem. Schmidt & Bender 8x56 & Nosler 110gn Accubond = Game Over!

Edited by deeangeo (17/05/15 02:57 PM)

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