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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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MacNaughton
.275 member


Reged: 11/02/05
Posts: 55
Loc: Somerset. U.K.
.450/.400 NE Cowles and Dunn
      #26460 - 17/02/05 02:35 PM

Does anyone know if the Sydney retailers Cowles and Dunn sourced their rifles from a particular maker ?
I`m `looking after` a .450/.400 Nitro Express double rifle that has `Cowles & Dunn. 407 George St. Sydney. By Appt to HE Governor. engraved on the rib. The rifle bears Birmingham nitro proof marks and the legend `.450-.400 EXPRESS` on the lumps. Also `3" ` `?0 GRS CORDITE` ( first figure poorly stamped - possibly `6`.) There is no makers name, barrel makers initials or a serial number. The rifle is an Anson and Deeley type boxlock with a full rib and dolls head extension. The front sight is a bead on a low ramp ( two holes throgh the ramp from side to side with scrapes in the blueing suggesting that there is something missing - a hood ? ) It has a fixed rear sight and two `flip-up` leaf sights marked 100yds, 200 yds, 300yds. Barrels are 26 1/2 inches. The stock has a full pistol grip with an engraved horn cap ( a sun with rays on three levels ) and a horn butt plate. The action is engraved in semi-relief with medium scrolls, waterway beaded fences and a rolled trigger guard. It is top lever opening ( un-assisted ) with double triggers and an automatic slide safety ( the word `SAFE` inlet in gold. There are no side bolsters or clips. The rifle was originally the first gun of a pair ( surely not a trio ? ! ) as it bears a gold `1` inlet to the rib and another on the top lever. The action is very similar to a black powder .450 Express rifle by Alex. Henry that was offered for sale at the last ( Dec.9th.2004 ) Holts auction. ( Lot 529, illustrated on p.122 of the catalogue.)
Date is c.1900.
The rifle is in good to fine condition showing little wear, has clean bores and sharp rifling. There are traces of colour hardening on the action.
Any help with identifying the maker of this this rifle would be greatly appreciated as it comes with no relevent history whatsoever.

--------------------
Nothing compares to a `Best Gun.`

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: .450/.400 NE Cowles and Dunn [Re: MacNaughton]
      #26489 - 18/02/05 05:00 AM


450-.400 EXPRESS
3" = 3" Jeffrey Chamber
60 GRS CORDITE would be the load.

A CIRCA 1900 guns sounds abi early for a 3" Jeffrey Chambering, would like
to see photos.

I had a look at the picture in the catalogue.. I really need to see a picture of the:-
- action SIDE and TOP - especially the Dolls Head
- Profile of the whole gun
and then from this I can rule out a couple of makers or
definately say whethe it is made by Webley / Webley and Scott / W & C Scott,
(they kept changing the name !!!) depending on when it was made.

The Alex Henry does NOT look like it was made by Webley and Scott.

Any number of makers were making guns around this time so it could be anyone in Birmingham.
Webley etc al made heaps of guns for everybody esle (W & C Scott made all of Hollands guns before
1893 !!!) and these can asily be picked. Others are hearder to definatelively say they made it but
H Leonard who made alot of Jeffrey's guns also made guns for others.

Sometime small intials are stamped somewhere on a gun barrels and this can give it away as can
small features like Quarter Ribs, front sight configurations etc.

Either way, sounds like a nice gun.

500 Nitro

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MacNaughton
.275 member


Reged: 11/02/05
Posts: 55
Loc: Somerset. U.K.
Re: .450/.400 NE Cowles and Dunn [Re: 500Nitro]
      #26541 - 19/02/05 01:34 PM

Thanks for the comments 500Nitro. Sorry I can`t oblige with photos - I have a problem with my PC at the moment in that I can`t access new pictures to upload - but they are available to browse in my pictures file - a problem that coincides with the Fuji camera software that my daughter loaded on Tuesday night ( I told her to get a Nikon like mine ! )
When I said that the rifle was `remarkably similar` to the Alex Henry I meant that it appears to be a clone of the Alex Henry rifle as far as the action is concerned. Obviously I don`t know who was responsible for the Alex Henry action either. I agree that it is highly unlikely to have been W.C.Scott, or Webley ...or Webley and Scott as the two rifles are unlike any their actions that I have seen.
Re. The date I suggested: 1900 is an approximate date but I believe that it is not too far off. As far as I remember Jeffery completed the development of his 3 inch .450/.400 NE in 1896 and immediately made it generally available however I don`t know how rapidly it was taken up by other gunmakers.
Yes, Holland and Holland outsourced all of their guns until 1893 - a fact that has now been published and agreed -and W.C.Scott/Webley and Scott continued to build all the `Dominion` models. As regards how much of the rest of their output Holland and Holland actually built after that date depends upon ones intepretation of the word `built` - does the assembly and finishing of outsourced actions, barrels and locks qualify as `building` ? If it does then the answer is `quite a lot`, if not ...........
The very good thing about contemporary London gunmaking is that London guns ARE now built in London.

--------------------
Nothing compares to a `Best Gun.`

Edited by MacNaughton (19/02/05 02:05 PM)

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: .450/.400 NE Cowles and Dunn [Re: MacNaughton]
      #26569 - 20/02/05 07:55 AM

MacNaughton,

I agree with everything you say.

Re LONDON gun ARE made in London, I laugh at people over here who say
it's a LOndon gun OR it's only a Birmingham Gun.

Brazier, Stanton etc etc locks were made in Wolverhampton (ie near Birmingham !!!).

Anyway, will see what else I can find out.

500 Nitro

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MacNaughton
.275 member


Reged: 11/02/05
Posts: 55
Loc: Somerset. U.K.
Re: .450/.400 NE Cowles and Dunn [Re: 500Nitro]
      #26603 - 21/02/05 12:32 PM

Yeah, `It`s a London gun ( only it`s mostly made in Birmingham ).` 500Nitro, you`re a man of rare discernment !
The firm of Joseph Brazier Ashes are heroes of gunmaking as far as I`m concerned - they had the very naughty habit of signing their work ( even when they were not supposed to. ) In the last year I`ve seen three H&H Royales and one Purdey with the locks signed by Joseph Brazier. In `hammerless` guns you often have look very closely for the signature - sometimes it appears on the back of the hammers.
.....All those London, Birmingham ( and provincial ) gunmakers producing hand built best sidelocks and ALL of them using one of two different action forgings ! ( - And the `Big Three` London makers all adopted the `stocked to the fences` design in the 1890s. ) Parallel development ? Coincidence ? I think not.
Thanks for your ongoing research into the Cowles and Dunn - I`m getting nowhere with my efforts.

--------------------
Nothing compares to a `Best Gun.`

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