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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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BillfromOregon
.333 member


Reged: 27/10/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Sweetwater, by God Texas
Seeking twist rates for .577 Black Powder Express
      #263055 - 03/04/15 01:59 AM

I know several here own doubles in the .577 BPE family. I am thinking of rebarreling a Ruger No. 1 to .577 3-inch BPE to be shot primarily with black and cast. My Pedersoli Kodiak .58 has 1:48 twist, as did a Snider that passed through my hands. Believe Krieger offers a 1:30. Don't know if that would be too fast for a 550-600-grain bullet at 1700, but I am sure it would be fine with a smokeless plinking load.
Any advice most appreciated.

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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1465
Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Seeking twist rates for .577 Black Powder Express [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #263104 - 04/04/15 05:20 AM

My 1870's era Stephen Grant .577 has a 1:48 twist. Remember that this was for a 480-550 grain bullet.
My opinion? The faster twist would be OK, or try one of the muzzle loader barrel makers to see if they have a blank with a 1:48 or so twist.
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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BillfromOregon
.333 member


Reged: 27/10/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Sweetwater, by God Texas
Re: Seeking twist rates for .577 Black Powder Express [Re: 3DogMike]
      #263136 - 05/04/15 12:27 AM

Thanks Mike. How does your Grant shoot?

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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
Posts: 1465
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Re: Seeking twist rates for .577 Black Powder Express [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #263141 - 05/04/15 02:05 AM

Hi Bill,
The Grant shoots well for a very light (8 1/4 lbs) double .577 3"BPE, on the order of 3" to 3 1/2" 6 shot groups at 50 yards standing rest with H4198.
Weather has been too cold yet to fool with working up suitable black powder loads.
- Mike

--------------------
"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27014
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Seeking twist rates for .577 Black Powder Express [Re: 3DogMike]
      #263149 - 05/04/15 06:22 AM

If using 150gr. to 160gr. equivelend loads, I'm sure the 48" twist will work well with 600 to 650gr. bullets - NP.

If wanting to shoot even longer ones, the Kreiger twist might be better, however, my 66" twist HAWKEN .58 cal. shot 675gr. RN Lead bullets with 160gr. 2f GOEX (1978 era powder) at 1,375fps and put them into 3-4" at 100 yards off the bench.

The recoil was too much for me, even in the 11 pound rifle, due to the narrow, hooked butt plate. Yeeeowch - that hurt, but such testing needed to be done! Now, I wonder about that NEED & if that sort of testing helped bugger my right shoulder.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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BillfromOregon
.333 member


Reged: 27/10/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Sweetwater, by God Texas
Re: Seeking twist rates for .577 Black Powder Express [Re: DarylS]
      #263172 - 06/04/15 12:00 AM

Daryl, that buttplate had to have been torture. With a good, broad, flat English butt, I'll bet you would have had a much different experience.

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DarylS
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Re: Seeking twist rates for .577 Black Powder Express [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #263176 - 06/04/15 02:14 AM

No comparison at all, Bill - my 14 bore has a normal English plate, 2" wide and lovely to shoot.
That Hawken Plate, well, it was nasty indeed.


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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BillfromOregon
.333 member


Reged: 27/10/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Sweetwater, by God Texas
Re: Seeking twist rates for .577 Black Powder Express [Re: DarylS]
      #263338 - 09/04/15 08:32 AM

Ahhh, that lovely 14-bore that your brother built for you, right?

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Seeking twist rates for .577 Black Powder Express [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #263361 - 10/04/15 02:51 AM

Yes, that's the one, Bill - nice shooting rifle, even with 6 dram 2F GOEX loads. I was able to reduce those to just over 5 drams with the newer powder.

I suspect a reduction to perhaps 4 1/2 drams or 5 drams wiht Swiss 1 1/2F powder.

Here's 140gr. (5 1/8th dram) load- rifle is still climbing a bit.

With proper pitch on the butt, the as the shoulder is driven back, it angles down, bringing the cheek off the comb - thus, the comb never smacks you. Note the trigger finger close to the front of the guard, well forward of the trigger. Almost full recoil at that point. 140gr. 2f GOEX and 480gr. round ball - and no pain. We were shooting the 200yard offhand 5 shot part of a 10 shots at 200yards postal match. The 14 bore won. There were a lot of guys on the forum who were going to compete, but only the originator, Taylor and I posted targets. Both Taylor and the other guy shot .50's against my .69. Taylor then built himself a .62 cal. 12 pound Hawken to compete more closely in that event. When working up loads he managed a 2 1/2", 5 shot group at 200yards, once he settled on 130gr. of powder as the best load.



--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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BillfromOregon
.333 member


Reged: 27/10/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Sweetwater, by God Texas
Re: Seeking twist rates for .577 Black Powder Express [Re: DarylS]
      #263368 - 10/04/15 09:49 AM

Daryl, mon frere, that photo makes me want to take a couple of aspirin ...

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27014
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Seeking twist rates for .577 Black Powder Express [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #263406 - 11/04/15 02:44 AM

LOL - really, it's not bad at all. The rifle weighs 9 1/2 pounds - good thing.

Oh - that .62 Hawken has yet to beat "The Bitch" at 200yards. I named her back in 1986 when he built the rifle. Today, I suspect he could indeed win a match and quite handily at that.
This is the BEFORE picture, aiming at the 200yard square target with the 200yard leaf raised.
HA! - I just noticed, my watch spins around until it sits on the outside of my wrist when shooting this rifle.



--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TH44
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Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK
Re: Seeking twist rates for .577 Black Powder Express [Re: DarylS]
      #263415 - 11/04/15 09:18 AM

My .577 3" BPE made by I Hollis, probably later - 1890s, appears to have a twist of 1 in 30" or a little less

Shoots well with 590 grain bullets ahead of 150/155 grains No. 4 Swiss BP (1 1/2fg)

TH44

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BillfromOregon
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Reged: 27/10/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Sweetwater, by God Texas
Re: Seeking twist rates for .577 Black Powder Express [Re: TH44]
      #263418 - 12/04/15 01:48 AM

Thanks, TH44.

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