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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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Tentman
.300 member


Reged: 13/06/10
Posts: 128
Loc: Southland, New Zealand
Kipplaufbüchse - help from our european friends ??
      #262601 - 21/03/15 03:45 PM

Hello Gentlemen

I have recently had a little money from my mother and want to use it to purchase a rifle that "is forever", a timeless piece that I can maybe pass along to a future grandson who hunts !! I have several Zivil Mausers - Model B's, so have determined that this should be a Kipplaufbüchse.

I don't want a modern rifle with no soul, so please no Merkel K1's, Blasers K95's or Haenel K9 or the like. These are fine weapons but they don't speak to me !!

What I favour is a very plain rifle of the grade that would have been carried by a guide, farmer or forester (or maybe a hunting man of modest means). I would hunt Red Deer and Chamois in our mountains with this rifle so it needs to be very light, have some power - maybe 6.5x57r as a minimum, 7x65r or 8x57r would be ideal, and it must have a telescopic sight or be capable of having one fitted without destroying the authenticity of the rifle. Kudae has been kind enough to post up pictures of his Kipplaufs over the years and these are the sort of rifle I'd like.

I am looking on Egun.de and find this easy to search, but I have some questions . . . .

Are there other European websites that I should watch ?? (and other countries too ??)

What sort of words are used to describe or identify these more modest Kipplauf's from those very expensive engraved models that are the preserve of the wealthy ??

Any help appreciated.

Regards
Foster

--------------------
Southland, New Zealand

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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2376
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Kipplaufbüchse - help from our european friends ?? [Re: Tentman]
      #262604 - 21/03/15 04:07 PM

What is your budget ?

Waidamsnnheil

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8716
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Kipplaufbüchse - help from our european friends ?? [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #262612 - 21/03/15 07:11 PM

Kipplaufbüchse on Egun have probably the most

http://egun.de/market/list_items.php?mode=cat&cat=520&page=1


its also the rigth term in french http://www.naturabuy.fr/Kipplauf-cat-133.html


another keyword is Karpatenbüchse
pre WW 2 Kipplaufbüchsen are rare, this was allways a very special kind of gun and only few hunter's were realy needing this.

the new Merkel Karpathenbüchse is not my cup of tea
http://www.merkel-die-jagd.de/en/produkte/gewehre/kipplaufbuechsen-k-klasse/kipplaufbuechse-k4/

"SINGLE SHOT RIFLE K4 - FLORSTEDT‘S CARPATHIAN RIFLE

Alexander Florstedt (1863-1929) was a famous writer on hunting at the beginning of the 20th Century. The Carpathian Mountains were not only his favourite hunting grounds; he also composed the standard work on hunting in this magical mountain range in Eastern Europe. In line with his needs and according to his detailed requirements, Merkel developed the first Carpathian rifle. The current version of this traditional rifle is the K4. Its distinctive marks are the octagonal barrel and the steel receiver. The K4 thereby brings more stabilising mass to the scales – important for a steady firing position. A rifle exactly to the specifications laid down by Florstedt, an advocate of the precision single shot. The K4 is available in “Jagd” design."

but giving the rifle to another Suhl master and give it a new stock and finnish it would be a good rifle, no doubt



Alexander Florstedt





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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (21/03/15 07:26 PM)

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Tentman
.300 member


Reged: 13/06/10
Posts: 128
Loc: Southland, New Zealand
Re: Kipplaufbüchse - help from our european friends ?? [Re: lancaster]
      #262614 - 21/03/15 07:27 PM

Thanks Lancaster, I have been looking there but they mosly seem to be "high end rifles".

The budget is about 2500 Euros - so you can see why I am seeking a plain rifle without embellishment.

--------------------
Southland, New Zealand

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Waidmannsheil
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Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2376
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: Kipplaufbüchse - help from our european friends ?? [Re: Tentman]
      #262622 - 21/03/15 09:29 PM

Tentman, a Krieghof Hubertus would be a good choice in the base model which has no embellishment.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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Yochanan
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Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 912
Loc: Volksdiktatur Schweden
Re: Kipplaufbüchse - help from our european friends ?? [Re: Waidmannsheil]
      #262659 - 22/03/15 08:37 AM

Merkel Karpatenbüchse. Kipblock action in steel and I'm sure they will make one with no engraving etc. Calibre would be 7x65R or 6,5x57R.

There is also a second option, I would try to find a used non-sideslock Jäger kipblock action with underlever made from steel. I know there are some small makers that made these. I was offered on made in Austria in 7x65R. it had nice dense walnut and action and barrel were nitred for corrosion protection. I passed on the deal and still regret it today.

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© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

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Tentman
.300 member


Reged: 13/06/10
Posts: 128
Loc: Southland, New Zealand
Re: Kipplaufbüchse - help from our european friends ?? [Re: Yochanan]
      #262664 - 22/03/15 09:39 AM

http://www.milanuncios.com/escopetas/merkel-monotiro-6-5x57-canon-adicional-152985678.htm

So here is a modern version of what interests me, this one maybe doesn't have the real stories that I would like but its close - does anyone speak spanish ??

--------------------
Southland, New Zealand

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Yochanan
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Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 912
Loc: Volksdiktatur Schweden
Re: Kipplaufbüchse - help from our european friends ?? [Re: Tentman]
      #262675 - 22/03/15 10:59 PM

Tentman,
Contact Merkel factory directly and see what they can offer you. I had some contact with them in the past and got excellent service.

http://www.merkel-die-jagd.de/en/produkte/gewehre/kipplaufbuechsen-k-klasse/kipplaufbuechse-k4

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

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Tentman
.300 member


Reged: 13/06/10
Posts: 128
Loc: Southland, New Zealand
Re: Kipplaufbüchse - help from our european friends ?? [Re: Yochanan]
      #262765 - 25/03/15 07:28 PM

Hello Folks

I have had some luck searching once I found the right "nomenclature" and have two potential candidates - http://www.waffen-ziegenhahn.de/produkte...h%5D%5Bnew%5D=0 and http://www.sodia.cc/gebrauchtwaffen/kipplaufbuechsen/ (second rifle down) so now I need to find a export agent in Germany who will act for me on a "third party" sale - does anyone know of a reliable agent or dealer ??

Your opinions on the rifles I'm looking at would also be appreciated.

Thanks
Foster

--------------------
Southland, New Zealand

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Kiwi_bloke
.333 member


Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 256
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Kipplaufbüchse - help from our european friends ?? [Re: Tentman]
      #262964 - 31/03/15 06:51 AM

I presume you have noted on Egun that many of the offerings are not available for export - and they mean export to EU countries, never mind to NZ. The costs and delays of getting an export approved since a German law change a few years back have become considerable, so I'd hope you have a plan for getting an export licence without using up most of your budget.

The tip-barrel rifle seems to be inherently accurate, at least in the examples that I'm aware of. You might like to talk to Klaus Pommer Agencies, (KP-Agencies) in Auckland, NZ. Klaus will be back in NZ in the next few weeks and it would be worth touching base with him to see if he has any for sale or if he could look out for one for you.

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germ1947
.224 member


Reged: 02/06/15
Posts: 2
Loc: ny usa
Re: Kipplaufbüchse - help from our european friends ?? [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #265938 - 05/06/15 10:25 AM

not european but i just purchased a collath kipplauf in 7x57r with claw mount scope for 3800 usd, this rifle has double set trigger, 27 5/8 in barrel, full split (for the collath action) stock and heavy engraving. they are floating around the usa, probably war bring backs.mine is in excellent condition and is my current pride and joy.

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