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wwiifirearms
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Loc: Ohio, USA
J. Nowotny double rifle questions and pictures
      #262207 - 14/03/15 03:45 AM

I am trying to research a J. Nowotny double rifle that appears to be .450 caliber. It has some interesting markings and I was hoping someone might know what they mean. First, there is a medallion on top of the buttstock with a Crown over N & E superimposed on each other. Any thoughts on meaning of the markings, or value of the rifle would be greatly appreciated.


Second, is a series of letter on a plate along the right side of the stock near the buttplate.


Other pics:

















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fuhrmann
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Re: J. Nowotny double rifle questions and pictures [Re: wwiifirearms]
      #262239 - 14/03/15 07:49 PM

This is a high-quality rifle in very good condition.
Johann Nowotny in Prag / Praha was a renowned gunmaker and dealer, meaning: some guns bearing his name may have been made in his own shop, others were bought in from makers in Austria, Germany, Belgium, maybe in finished state, maybe unfinished ("in the white"), maybe as parts.
Finding out who really made what is detective's work.
As I see no proof marks I assume the gun was made and sold before 1892 or so (in this year official proof became mandatory in the Austrian empire).
1880's might also fit well to the breech with Jones underlever.
I do not know the small stamps on the underside of the barrel (that intertwined "TS" or whatever it is might lead somewhere).

One could do a chamber cast and run a soft lead slug through the barrels, to determine exact dimensions and the cartridge.

That small oval inlay is the "nameplate" of an owner, presumably the first owner. The crown indicates he was from nobility, a Graf or Count, with the initials E and N.
As there where quite countless Counts back then and there is no coat of arms, I see no way to go further here.
The number engraved on the buttplate may be an inventary number, so the owner may have been quite wealthy with a household big enough to be accounted for.

The engraved metal strip on the right side of the stock is for keeping a record of the game shot with this rifle. The letters are abbreviations for different game species, and small nails would be driven in for each animal shot, along the faint parallel lines that can be seen leading away from the metal strip.
Why there are no such nails, who knows?
I have seen a couple of guns from Bohemia with this system (and plenty of nails), maybe this was a local fashion ?

Value is a tricky question. I am not knowledgeable enough and anyway it is not possible without holding the gun in hands. Certainly a couple of 1000 Euros or USD, my guess would be a range between 2500 and 5000.
Your best way to find out a value number is to go to an auction house specialised in collector's arms and have it appreciated, or go through auction records to see what comparable pieces were sold for.
Certainly it is worth enough to keep it safe and cared for, and not to try any "renovations". This rifle is in very good condition, probably it is all original. Any re-blueing or stock conditioning (except a rub of the right oil then and now) is unnecessary and takes away value for a collector.

fuhrmann

Edited by fuhrmann (14/03/15 07:52 PM)


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lancaster
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Re: J. Nowotny double rifle questions and pictures [Re: fuhrmann]
      #262243 - 14/03/15 10:18 PM

no doubt Nowotny was a best gunmaker, gun and rifle I remember were allways top

the caliber is probably 11,6x82R 450 Express what you may know as 450 BPE 3,25"
possible the chamber is for the "Deutsche Form" or german model case what can mean you need a different sizing die because the today common 450 NE case is a little bit over case measurments. 450 NE brass can be used when resized in a custum made die set without problems but a chamber cast will tell more.
another possiblity is your DR is chambered for the 11,6x60R 450 or the 11,6x65R 450 simply the 450BPE case cut back to 60 or 65 mm.

--------------------
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.
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gungadoug
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Re: J. Nowotny double rifle questions and pictures [Re: lancaster]
      #262249 - 15/03/15 12:16 AM

Nice rifle! I also own a Nowotny double in 8x57jr, though a later manufacture. Mine is toplever hammer. My rear sight is also marked for 2 ranges, and I find a fine sight with the bead down in the notch is correct for the close range, and a coarse sight with the bead even with the top of rear sight is correct for the longer range. I am aware that some older 450 ex. chambers are too tight for modern cases, but have found that also in British rifles, just assumed the old Kynoch brass was thinner, as it will usually chamber fine.

Enjoy- you certainly have a finely crafted rifle there!

Doug


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fuhrmann
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Re: J. Nowotny double rifle questions and pictures [Re: gungadoug]
      #262297 - 15/03/15 08:11 PM

The stamp I was wondering about yesterday is a Belgian proof mark, upside down and weak on one side.

fuhrmann


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wwiifirearms
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Re: J. Nowotny double rifle questions and pictures [Re: fuhrmann]
      #262308 - 15/03/15 11:06 PM

Wow! Thank you for all of the great information. More than I ever imagined I would learn about this rifle. Your help is very much appreciated!

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: J. Nowotny double rifle questions and pictures [Re: wwiifirearms]
      #262338 - 16/03/15 08:17 PM

Quote:

Wow! Thank you for all of the great information. More than I ever imagined I would learn about this rifle. Your help is very much appreciated!




Well done gentlemen for the extensive informative answers.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: J. Nowotny double rifle questions and pictures [Re: NitroX]
      #262353 - 16/03/15 11:49 PM

Nice double rifle, and a lot of good information above.

You really need to do Cerrosafe chamber casts before going further. Certainly if you plan to shoot this rifle. This is available from Brownell's

Remember this is a black powder rifle. Tailor your loads accordingly. You can get plenty of horsepower out of black powder equivalent loads.

The rifle would have been made to shoot paper patched bullets. You can see the rifling is somewhat similar to Henry style. Paper patched bullets are a joy to shoot and delightful to clean after, as they leave no lead or copper residue in your bore.


Curl

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es
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Re: J. Nowotny double rifle questions and pictures [Re: CptCurl]
      #262819 - 27/03/15 04:19 AM

Fascinating. I believe that I have the twin to that rifle. I will have to pull it out of the safe. It regulated well with the standard Nitro for black - 4198 load.

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DarylS
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Re: J. Nowotny double rifle questions and pictures [Re: es]
      #262822 - 27/03/15 08:31 AM

Cerosafe is also available from www.trackofthewolf.com

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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es
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Re: J. Nowotny double rifle questions and pictures [Re: DarylS]
      #263181 - 06/04/15 08:44 AM

There is a wonderful article in the most recent Double Gun Journal about a 450 that takes the D case.

Edited by es (06/04/15 08:46 AM)


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gungadoug
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Re: J. Nowotny double rifle questions and pictures [Re: es]
      #263303 - 08/04/15 11:22 PM

I wonder if the lettering that looks like "STFMAT" could be SIEMANS, with serifs, and worn?? Also, is this a Jones, or Lefacheaux action? Seeing the forend still apparently attached is puzzling.
Doug


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tinker
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Re: J. Nowotny double rifle questions and pictures [Re: gungadoug]
      #263328 - 09/04/15 02:24 AM

Two-bite rotary bolting existed before the Jones patent.
Jones rode the success of the continental makers.
It's not necessarily considered Lefeucheux either.

On the siemans question - I seriously doubt it.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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