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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting
      #2612 - 04/05/03 08:35 AM

Well this post will get some steam up but its a q`s that a lot of you guys will answer.Let me stress there are NO references to members posting on this forum whatsoever so please anybody connected with the African industry as a hunter or guide do not take any of my ramblings personally yourselves.
I have only been to Africa through the writings of many famous hunters from days long gone that did the deed and have not been there myself but i see in the SCI magazines and other publications many photos of African game taken by what appear to be almost novice hunters (their words) and by some people that are obviously not fit enough are these "hunters" just being walked/driven around various sized game enclosures no matter how big so as to get the $$$$$$ from them.Its a very common way of collecting game and money by either party in many parts of the world.The other q`s is if these African big game animals are so hard and tough to obtain how is it that just about every body that hunts them come home with the bacon? It apears more and more that many of these animals are simply shot in collecting type environments.

I suppose i`m really asking if TRUE hunting in the sense of not sighting game from a vehicle but of spending 10 hours + - a day in tracking/glassing etc is done in Africa anymore.There are constant "read between the lines stories" of international hunters pictured in many publications available today and i would bet my bottom dollar 99% of those so called hunters would really struggle to take or even hunt a sambar stag in his home ground in Victoria or an argali ram etc.Some of these international hunters i have met when they hunted with us for sambar deer and it doesent take much to know that any game they bragged about taking in Africa was done the easy way.I do know of one big game /big name hunter that i personally talked with taking his Wapiti in a crush in NZ and shooting a penned (10 acres) sambar stag,this hunter told me how he had taken all the worlds spiral horned antelope,eight black several grizzly and two polar bears amongst his trophy game species and i often wondered as to how he got them, and there have been a smattering of others that i met that have done it much the same as well in the name of "hunting".Dont get me wrong now fella`s there are still ethical true hunters out there i know not just the cheque book types.

Shock horror i have read stories(published in SCI mag) of "hunters" lying in wait in a blind over bait for a leopard that have the torch turned on for them when the cat comes to the bait, ok so its legal in some countries but [censored] is it HUNTING? shooting a leopard in the light of a spotlight could only be regarded as criminal in many eyes--not one person can tell me that shooting a leopard in artificial light is hunting,oh yes there are time constraints on the "hunters" that need their dollar extracted so it appears to be in MANY cases a matter of having game appear in very easy situations for the "hunter" to collect.
There are so many places around the world that supply "hunters" with game--ie USA,NZ,Canada,Australia,UK and of course Africa in "ranch " type situations that i wonder if these places will eventually be the only places left in the world.When i go to Africa to hunt are there any/many places that are considered truly free range no fence type hunting left? Ah yes i`m sure to be quoted on how many acres there are in such and such a place etc but even in a 50,000 acre area that is fenced the managers have the say in the animal population and know basically where the animals are to be camped for the client to take in the easiest most exciting manner.
Stories we know firsthand on "hunters" being duped into believing they are getting wild /free game abound in circles i`m in and a lot of those "hunters" dont really care so as to have bragging rights for the folks back home.

My idea of true hunting is backpacking into Alaska for its fantastic range of species high wild and free,high altitude sheep hunting in Asia and of course hunting one of the premium antlered game of the world in the sambar stag an animal in its own environment that many try but cant take.

Of course i dont doubt that there are truly wild areas in African countries and animals there as well that on a hard to get basis are as tough as any else where (bongo for one) but hell its hard to find reference to one on the net--ok i will be bombarded on this one with places for sure.

Now on a lighter note for the fella`s What are the three words you dont want to hear in the mens room???
>
>
>Heeeeey!-----------nice dick!

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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Mpofu
.300 member


Reged: 02/01/03
Posts: 140
Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: gryphon]
      #2619 - 04/05/03 07:45 PM

Gryphon,

You ask a very good question, and the answers you get, will depend very much on the type of person who makes it.
I am no authority on African hunting, but have done four separate hunts for DG in Zimbabwe, so I suppose I can speak with a little personal experience.
In my book, to do a 'real' hunt, one must go off, perhaps with a tracker, walk into the bush, camp out, and shoot your trophies.It is the way I used to hunt, many moons ago. However,this is more or less impossible to do in Africa, unless you buy a hunt at an auction. Even then, I am not too sure if you can go it alone.
In my time in Africa, I have seen grossly overweight and obviously very unfit characters, who have actually refused to walk more than 400 yards, sit at water holes, or get off the back of a truck and shoot their trophies.( If you can get your hands on a video called 'Return to Chewore' you will see exactly what I mean).
Another bad example I have on video (given to me by an agent in the UK, who was trying to sell me a hunt at the time) where the hunter jumps out of the truck and shoots a Buffalo, and later in the hunt, 'bottles' it when he comes up to shoot the tuskless elephant he has 'booked' and asks the PH to back him up. The PH, unusually declines, and you actually see a classic piece of film on how not to shoot an elephant. (You can have a copy of this one if you want, it is awful).
The other thing is, in Africa, Safari hunting is an industry, and as a result, getting a client his trophy is of paramount importance. Corners do get cut , and ethics do take a back seat.
Having said that, I have been priveliged to have hunted with some very professional PHs, and once they get to know and trust you, they will allow you to 'take the lead' in your hunts.
So, if you are used to walking into the hills and tracking down and shooting your Sambhar, then Africa will certainly be different.
Question is , is it unacceptable enough for one not to go ??!
Personally, I would go as often as my finances allow.
Mpofu.

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ovis
.300 member


Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 216
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: gryphon]
      #2628 - 05/05/03 05:34 PM

Gryphon,

I guess that this season is my 41st. I still get excited knowing that I'm going out there "amongst them" and always look forward to the challenge. The group that I work for here in Alaska is headed by a registered guide that is upfront with all of his clients and tells all of the prospective clients just how very difficult the hunt is going to be; no gimmes here. Clients are flown in to a very remote area and it's by shanks mare from there. They cover anywhere from 6 to 14 miles a day. This is true hunting at its best and I'm very proud to be a part of this.
As far as Africa goes, I grew up reading all of the great writings on the subject of BG hunting there. I dreamed of it for years. But now with high fences, "Pirelli Safaris", and "Club Med Safaris", I found my options limited. I, too believe, there is more collecting(shooting) going on than actual hunting as it should be done. If one wants to settle for that, it's his dime, I hope he enjoys it. I looked at numerous "hunting opportunities" in Africa for a long while. I did it on my dime and not through an agent. I didn't use an agent as I have the time and the knowledge of the industry to do it on my own. It didn't take too long to narrow my choices down to TWO PHs that were frank about what they could provide and didn't say, "Oh, I think we have just what you need". Sometimes I felt I was talking to a used car dealer. I chose between the two(really tough choice) and I'm booked for April 04 for plains game in a bush camp where we'll hunt like I know how:
No fences, no shooting around or from a vehicle, and I don't need to be waited on hand and foot. I really don't care if others feel I have a "holier than thou attitude" because I don't hunt behind fences and personally find it lacking. I'm very secure with my abilities and, as long as there are wild places to hunt, I will continue to be excited whenever I take to the bush with my rifle in my hand and my pack on my back. To each their own and, while I may not agree with it, I'll happily fight for their right to do it as long as it's on the up and up.

Gryphon, this is a thought provoking subject you have brought up and it's good to see people thinking about where our great sport is headed. I truly hope that one day you can come North and experience the Brooks Range here in Alaska. To me, it's the last great place. You're welcome here at my little cabin on the river anytime.

Joe

--------------------
"Where there's a hobble, there's hope."

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SafariHunt
.333 member


Reged: 02/01/03
Posts: 468
Loc: Pretoria RSA
Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: gryphon]
      #2629 - 05/05/03 06:27 PM

Gryphon,

Good point you have made or several anyway.
But you must remember that no-one or almost no-one as time for a 60 day safari anymore 7-10-14 day safaris are the norm these days and the guys want to shoot at least one animal a day. In the end of the day you must keep your client happy I don't know if you have seen a clients face after 3 days without firing a shot and paying $300 per day for it.

There are exceptions though the raffle hunt I have in the Klaserie will be walk and stalk all te way it is a 100 000 Acres propety with no border fence between the Kruger Park and the property so that will be the closest wyou will come to free roaming buff in RSA.

Another touchy point you touched on is leopard hunting leopard cannot be hunted by any other way unless you are so lucky to see one in broad daylight the other way is with dogs so which is more ethical ????

Yes hunting in Africa as become an industry with supply and demand lets just face it it's a fuc#ed up world we live in where the older days of Africa are gone for good. So lets face up to it and make the best of it. If you wanted a straight walk and stalk on a hunt I would gladly help you out even if it means that we won't shoot as many animals or get the best trophies. After all you are paying for the expereince and not just for the killing. It all comes down to personal ethics you has a pying client tell the ph how you would like to hunt not the other way around.

--------------------
"Sleeping under the African sky I can see nothing wrong with this world!"

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MLindsay
.224 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 6
Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: gryphon]
      #2632 - 05/05/03 11:04 PM

I have been very lucky to have been to Africa 10 times. I have a nice trophy room with some wonderful animals which I have the pleasure to share with many people. I am always asked how hard is it to take these animals? It is common among many African hunters to tell of the great difficulty of the hunt! This is how I explain it; some of these animals are collected and some are hunted. Animals such as springbok, blesbok and various others can be glassed from 250 yards and then shot. The problem is not seeing a specimen but looking for a good trophy. To me this does not constitute a hard hunt even though it can take you several days of glassing to find a good trophy. You can compare this to my Cape Eland which I along with my ph and tracker hunted for 6 days. Each day we found tracks and followed for up to 8 hours non stop, finally taking it around noon on the 6th. I also have been lucky to have spent 60 something days in the rain forest in Cameroon with a good friend of mine. I have caught 17 bongo with the pygmies and there dogs, some were bayed after 30 minutes of tracking and then I took a good one after striking track at 9 a.m. and finally getting a shot at 3:45 p.m.

All of this is to state that some animals in Africa can be easily collected and others can make you pull your hair out, loose 15 pounds, strain at the altitude but finally give you great joy!

Mike

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39255
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: MLindsay]
      #2635 - 06/05/03 01:26 AM

I have been on enough failed hunts where we worked hard and still had no success that I don't hesitate when a freebie or easy one comes along.

My understanding is a lot of animals are shot from a vehicle and will admit to taking two this way. Some shooters shoot everything from a vehicle and I have heard one story where a "shooter" when walking a whole 100 metres gave up on a top buck and said lets find another.

BUT take this as an example. I hunted Zebra the first time. Most people would think Zebra should eb a breeze but they are very alert animals. We sighted herds with a shootable animal maybe nine times and had to track them from 2 kms to 9 kms each time to try to come up to them, before having to give up (Zebras are very alert if they know something is up) each time. Finally connected on one which stood long enough after moving 20 metres or so to get a clear shot off the track. My second trip I got a shot off at two without problems but both times again we were on foot.

My first safari we covered probably close to 100 kilometres on foot over seven days (the PHs new shoes were worn through ).

Game collecting? While I realise I could hunt more or longer if I only brought photos back I would be very disappointed to do this. I will start bringing back skull caps though where I have taken animals like that before eg impala.

It is very hard to hunt without a PH in Africa. Some places do allow hunt auctions but once you have outfitted yourself and considering probably a lower rate of success it probably costs the same.

Probably the typical hunt consists of - driving the tracks and sighting either game or tracks. If after leaving the vehicle a shot can not be made, then the trackers start tracking and it could go for hours, with occasional sightings and hopefully an opportunity to shoot a trophy. Other times you might go for a walk through likely country or just sit and watch some country.

To me hunting from hides is a legitmate method of hunting, and has been for thousands of years. Indeed before firearms I would guess it was even more common. Leopards are principally nocturnal and even more so on game farms where they are hard hunted. How else are you going to hunt one in a 15 day period, unless one has extreme luck?

The ultimate would be a day stalk on leopard and a Central African Lion tracking hunt. One day if the lotto comes in ...

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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iqbal
resigned as a member


Reged: 05/02/03
Posts: 778
Loc: Karachi,Pakistan
Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: gryphon]
      #2639 - 06/05/03 03:06 AM

Gryphon,
Painful though it may be i have to agree with you that hunting in Africa,especially S.A.is not really hunting.I was there a few years back and bagged twelve animals and except for maybe four of them no tracking was required.I think one really goes to Africa just to be in the book,tell stories to friends(less fortunate)and show off.
In my country there is no such thing as arranged hunts or PH's,you have to climb mountains,search the valleys,glass and track until you find a suitable trophy.All you have with you is a guide who knows the way so that you don't get lost.My hunt for the great Marco Polo sheep is a classic example(i have written about it in this forum)of a how a hunt should be.

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Mpofu
.300 member


Reged: 02/01/03
Posts: 140
Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: iqbal]
      #2643 - 06/05/03 05:15 AM

Iqbal,
I have tried , and failed to locate the account of your Marco Polo sheep hunt. Can anyone point me in the right direction, please? Any pictures ?
Mpofu.

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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: Mpofu]
      #2647 - 06/05/03 06:37 AM

quote "Another touchy point you touched on is leopard hunting leopard cannot be hunted by any other way unless you are so lucky to see one in broad daylight the other way is with dogs so which is more ethical ???? "end quote.

Hey of course leopards can be hunted without artificial light---blind/stand hunting is an acceptable method during evening/late afternoon on a tree bait but i dont ever want to meet someone that has proudly taken a leopard in the light and proclaims himself to be a great hunter by taking one of the "big five" in this manner.A former hunting partner took two in Africa using his 7mm mag during daylight hours so can we all.
If it is ok to take leopards in this way why not wait till dark and sit on a waterhole with a bloody bright light and shoot the other four of the big five and make a real hunter out of oneself?.
Hunting big cats with dogs is to me far more ethical than using a light--man has used his faithful friends for thousands of years as a hunting companion and the leopard has its chances of escape during a hunt not so in a light from a blind.I understand the need to get the clients wish list filled in a very few days and to extract trophy fees etc to make a living but shooting animals without hunting for them is just that ---


Hey Joe thats a gracious offer you made there mate and its reciprocal you know. Alaska is i suppose the place where i have set my sights on since i first started reading of it in my 40 year old copies of "Outdoor Life Mag" and other mags.I find the idea of a long walk or sore arse ride into true wilderness areas something to truly wish for in a place like Alaska with its incredible beauty and the game it has.


--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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ovis
.300 member


Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 216
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: SafariHunt]
      #2649 - 06/05/03 07:27 AM

SafariHunt,

The group that I work with has clients that are paying $750-$1000US a day that could go a week without shooting but they know before they come how difficult the hunt is. That stated, there was only one hunter last season that didn't connect. He had the opportunities(3) but didn't make the shots. He just rebooked for next season. It boils down to the clients expectations and what the PH or guide can provide. On the flip side of the coin, I know of a hunter, last season, that booked with an outfitter that told him the sheep hunt in the Brooks wasn't "difficult" but wasn't told "difficult as compared to what?". He arrived in camp and wasn't physically able to walk to the first mountain, much less 6 miles up the drainage to spike camp. He ended up killing a wolf just outside the main camp. Not hardly what he paid for. Clients perceptions are based on the information they obtain from their PHs or guides. If they're unhappy paying $300/day and not shooting for three days, I would imagine that they thought it would be a bit different based on information gleaned from somewhere. Hunting is just that: hunting. On a real hunt, there should be no guarantees other than that you will hunt hard and, after hunting hard, you, hopefully, will be in a position to take the animal you're after. This is by no means a knock on you or your abilities. I'm just a bit "old school" and believe you get out of it what you put in it. I'm sure you'll be very successful at your new venture.

Joe

--------------------
"Where there's a hobble, there's hope."

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ovis
.300 member


Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 216
Loc: Homer, Alaska
Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: SafariHunt]
      #2650 - 06/05/03 07:46 AM

Gryphon,

I agree that leopards by torch is just not to my liking. I think the dogs would be a blast. I've taken black bear in front of my hounds numerous times, but that was years ago and dogs aren't allowed in Alaska for hunting big game. The bears got away more often than they were taken. I've also hunted whitetai deer in my home state of North Carolina in front of the hounds.

When you get ready to come to Alaska, let me know and I'll put you in touch with someone that will provide you with a trip you'll never forget. Interior grizzly, sheep, caribou, and the best grayling fishing you can imagine. There are also a lot of really big moose there also but the area is so remote that it is cost prohibitive to get a moose out by air. I'm telling you, it's the last great place. The only thing I would ask is that you leave the velcro gloves at home as this isn't Kiwiland and I'm too old to get you that close to the wild sheep!
If you just come for a visit, you can stay here at the cabin and you'll still see more than you can stand in one trip. After next years Africa trip, Australia is next on the list so maybe we can bend an elbow while I'm there. Thanks for the invite.

Joe

--------------------
"Where there's a hobble, there's hope."

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Mpofu
.300 member


Reged: 02/01/03
Posts: 140
Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: ovis]
      #2652 - 06/05/03 07:49 PM

Gryphon,

Getting a Leopard to the bait, especially in shooting light conditions, is an art in itself.
It starts with looking for spoor of a decent male, then you have to shoot appropriate bait animals, site a decent bait tree, likewise for the hide....etc ending up with shot placement that leaves little room for error.
The key is getting involved in all aspects of the hunt.
I shot my Leopard in National Parks territory, where the use of artificial lights are banned. Not that I would have considered it in the first place.
Hunting Leopard with hounds is something I would love to do, provided it is done the right way. Sitting in the back of a truck , following the chase, and then putting a shot into a treed animal, is one way of not doing it.
Mpofu.

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: gryphon]
      #2676 - 08/05/03 09:14 AM

Gryphon , all hunting in Africa is not as you seem to think! and your comprison of "SAMBAR STAGG in his own home ground" , is a little missleading. not that it matters,but there is no such thing as an Austrailian "DEER"!

That was not to say these animals are not hard to hunt, simply because they aren't indgenous to Austrailia. But someone who didn't know better could assume this is a put and take hunt, and be believed, by those who haven't been there! The same holds for those who have not been to Africa, who paint Africa, and her hunting practices with a broad brush! Not fair ether dirrection it is applied!

There are plenty of places in Africa where the old walk about type hunting is the common way. Countries like ZAMBIA, BOTSWANA, TANZANIA, ZIMBABWE, where the hunting concessions are not fenced in any way, and are vast in size. The animals in these concessions, and Tribal lands are free to move in and out of the hunting areas at will!

Places like BANGUELA,where you will do a lot of wadeing, and slapping Mosquitoes, and the hunting concessions around the North Luangwa, and South Luangwa ntl parks,like the Upper Lupande, in the Luangwa Valley are vast. The drill is usually to ride the tracks looking for tracks, at which time the vehicle is parked if the tracks show promise, and the tracking begins. This can last till it is very dark, and then a long walk back to the vehicle, many times with out sighting a good head. The other is to spot , say , a herd Buffalo, then to continue on down the track, a mile or so, park and stalk back to see if you can get a shot at a good bull. Many of these stalks are blown by changeing wind, or spooking elephant, or other animals, that alert the Buffalo!

Cats over bait is a very time consuming game, and the PH has to know what he is doing, to attract a cat. More guys go home without a Leopard, or lion than any other animal booked for, in Africa. I agreee with you about the atrificial light, that wouldn't set well with me, and is illegal in most of the places I've hunted. I have no problem with the hunting of cats with dogs, I did a lot of that in my younger days, but a 66 years of age I can't stay with the chase, and have to pass for bait, or tracking as in the Kalahari of Botswana, where that is the only way legal.

The animals that come close to the "COLLECTING" are usually the animals that are so common, the you will see thousands, or at least hundreds of them in a day, like Impala, springbok, and the like. These are usually the bait animals for the leopard, or Buffalo cow, Wildebeest, and Zebra, for lion bait! These animals have to be collected in a hurry, because of the time constraints of cat hunting. If you have a 14 day hunt, about the shortest hunt you can find for cats, you don't have time to waste, in getteing out baits., and these may have to be replaced durring the hunt, so must be done expodiseously! I think in most cases, outside RSA, you will get a real hunt, if that is what you want!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #2682 - 08/05/03 02:42 PM

Dboy of course there is such a thing as an Aussie deer,there is a sub-species of sambar here due to the fact that they have been here for 120 plus years and have evolved into the Aussie sambar with the Indian,Ceylonese and Malay blood infusions to make a distinct sub species that differ antler and body wise from their forebears.

I`m happy to read the members views for a change and not just have posts read unanswered,thanks old fella

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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Mpofu
.300 member


Reged: 02/01/03
Posts: 140
Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: gryphon]
      #2684 - 08/05/03 08:01 PM

Gryphon,
This may sound a bit like being wise after the event, but every time I looked at Sambhar pics you posted, they did not look like the Indian Beast. The colour of your animals appeared a bit more reddish brown, the animals looked a bit smaller, and appeared to have a more 'tidy' coat.
I have shot a fair amount of Sambhar in the foothills of the Himalayas (Corbett country), the meat did not make very good eating , we normally went for Kakar and wild boar meat, but Sambhar skin used to make some excellent leather for boots etc.
Mpofu.

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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: Mpofu]
      #2692 - 09/05/03 04:09 AM

I have a lot of pics regarding sambar from different areas of Victoria and colour ranges from charcoal type black to various shades of grey/brown etc,some have a very short bristly coat like a school doormat others very long bristles.I`m in possesion of sambar videos from India and i cant detect much diff at all from our deer except that the animals from Kanha have very spindly antlers mostly.There is a very slight possibility that our sambar have some remnants of rusa blood in their veins--- no-one knows for sure but for some stags showing longer inners than outers a rusa norm.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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Cacciatore
.224 member


Reged: 09/05/03
Posts: 14
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: gryphon]
      #2744 - 10/05/03 09:31 AM

Gryphon,

Do you have any idea where I can get a copy of sambar videos from India? I have rarely seen any deer doco's on TV and would love to see deer from around the world.

I remember seeing a doco a while ago and it showed a Rusa stag being attacked and killed by a Komodo Dragon. Very short clip, but made captivating viewing.

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Be Safe, Be Seen
Roberto

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Cacciatore
.224 member


Reged: 09/05/03
Posts: 14
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: Cacciatore]
      #2745 - 10/05/03 09:41 AM

On a simular note, does anybody know if there are any hunting videos available in Australia on Hog, Fellow, Red and Sambar Deer?

I already own copies of Reg Gordon's Sambar Stalking 1,3 and Noel O'Connor's Sambar Safari 1,2. All 4 videos show excellent footage of sambar in the wild.

Has anybody made simular videos on other Australian deer?

Roberto

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gryphon
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Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: Cacciatore]
      #2746 - 10/05/03 10:23 AM

Hey Italiano,try this one http://www.ozziehunting.com/sambvid.html

Also Nat geographic has a top video called "the Tiger in India" which has many sambar in it to study.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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Cacciatore
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Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: gryphon]
      #2753 - 10/05/03 04:32 PM

Gryphon,

Have you seen this sambar video before?

What are the titles to the Videos you have of the sambar in India?

Sorry about asking all these questions, but i have a passion for these animals and cant get enough of them.


Roberto

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gryphon
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Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: Cacciatore]
      #2758 - 11/05/03 06:11 AM

Noel O`connor`s + nat geo`s + Ken leathams-- i have seen other stuff on cable but not saved them and dont know titles

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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Cacciatore
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Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: gryphon]
      #2760 - 11/05/03 07:44 AM

Thanks for the info Gryphon greatly appreciated

Roberto

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russ
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Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: gryphon]
      #2835 - 17/05/03 02:23 AM

The majority of hunting today is done in fenced private "game farms". The hunting is what you make of it. The PH will oblige if you want to sit on the back of the vehicle and take your shots from there. Or he will hunt with you on foot (I suppose there are a couple who won't but you should ask upfront). As long as the property is 2500 acres plus (ask beforehand), you will get plenty of exercise, and since the game is likely to have been shot at before, you will have to put up a decent stalk. Certain species are more challenging than others, eg Kudu.

If you don't know a PH who will give you a fair chase hunt, I can put you in touch with one who will be happy to make you sweat.

Leopards have traditionally been hunted from blinds over bait. Most blinds are ground blinds, which adds a little excitement to the hunt. However, there is an alternative: daylight hot pursuit hunts. This is a very exciting way to hunt, but is only possible where the terrain is fairly flat and open. A male leopard track is found, trackers follow with the hunter in tow (realistically on the vehicle but I suppose you could do it on foot if you don't have any dependents). When the trail is hot, or the leopard is sighted, the trackers fall back and hounds are released. These dogs give tongue and the whole thing picks up momentum. Soon the leopard will be sighted and is then pursued at high speed. He won't go far before turning to kill his attackers. I am not joking about this. He will pick out the person who is making eye contact and charge. That is usually the hunter perched on the back of the pursuit vehicle with a shotgun. If you don't get him, he will draw blood for sure. An exciting finish to a long hot dusty trail.

I have a couple of these hunts available for 2003 in the Central Kalahari.

--------------------
Russ Gould
http://bigfivehq.com
http://vh2q.com
http://doublegunhq.com

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: russ]
      #68158 - 28/12/06 12:13 AM

Christmas thread random spinner. A more "robust" one.

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allenday
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Re: Is it really hunting in Africa or game collecting [Re: gryphon]
      #68178 - 28/12/06 02:55 AM

I think the answer largely depends on the sort of safaris you choose to book for yourself. Some are indeed shoot-'em-up game collection trips (usually quick in and out package deals), but many of the better safaris are real, live, honest hunts.

AD

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