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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Lee Speed Forum & Archive
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BwanaBob
.300 member


Reged: 03/07/03
Posts: 178
Loc: Gold Coast, QLD, Australia
Lee Speed 8x50R chambering
      #260227 - 10/02/15 11:00 AM

Whilst trying to educate myself about Lee Speeds, by reading the associated threads here and from other sources too, I keep finding reference to the 8x50R chambering.

Can anyone enlighten me about this cartridge, please?

In particular, it seems that this cartridge is known by a number of names, such as the 8x50R Austrian, .500/320 and .315 India - are these three all the same cartridge?

According to Cartridges of the World, the 8x50R uses a .323" bullet but this would seem to contradict the .315 name, although I do realise that cartridge names never make sense in regards to actual bullet diameter.

Any info that can be provided about the Lee Speeds and this cartridge would be gratefully accepted.

Oh, and by the way, the Indian Ordnance Board (IOB) are, to this day, still making sporting versions of their SMLE variant in .315 calibre! I know this to be a fact because at every Indian Defence Expo, they still exhibit these rifles along with their own copies of the BRNO Model 1. I even thought about investigating importing some of these rifles but they are very roughly made and the wood looks like it was carved and checkered with a cold chisel and a mallet by, none other, than Fred Flintstone himself! So I gave the idea away. In addition, while trying to talk to the representatives, from the IOB about this possibility, they showed absolutely no interest in selling their products overseas, which was a strange view, in my opinion, and I can't help but wonder who is buying these rifles?

By the way, John Walter in 'Rifles of the World', states that the Lee Speed was chambered in, and I quote, "7x57, .303, 8x51R, 32-40 Winchester or .375 Flanged Nitro Express (9.5x57)". I think that this list has some significant errors, but please correct me if I am wrong:

1. 7x57 should be 7x57R,

2. 8x51R (which John Walter also identifies as 8x51R French?) should be 8x50R Austrian,

3. .32-40 is a new one to me, and

4. The 9.5x57 is a rimless cartridge and is not the same as the .375 2.5".

Edited by BwanaBob (10/02/15 02:04 PM)

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dan_oz
.224 member


Reged: 04/09/08
Posts: 28
Loc: Australia
Re: Lee Speed 8x50R chambering [Re: BwanaBob]
      #260234 - 10/02/15 03:07 PM

The ".315" designation would come from the nominal bore diameter I'd say, not the bullet diameter, which is pretty standard practice for the Poms. Hence .315 Mauser (8x57JS), .315 Mannlicher Schoenauer (8x56) and the .315 (Austrian) Mannlicher (8x50R) chambered in the Lee Speeds by BSA and others. BTW Taylor mentions the latter in passing in his "African Rifles and Cartridges".

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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: Lee Speed 8x50R chambering [Re: BwanaBob]
      #260243 - 10/02/15 06:12 PM

This is from 1914 Cat !

I have seen in person a 6.5X53R also in BSA/Lee Speed looked to be factory, I think they would make what you wanted to a degree ?

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 8716
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Lee Speed 8x50R chambering [Re: Sarg]
      #260244 - 10/02/15 06:59 PM

looks indeed like a 7x57 without rim
the 32/40 looks like it could not compete against the bigger rounds.

the 8x50R Mannlicher ( not Austrian because you had to name it than Austro-Hungarian) was just at hand when they need a new cartridge after the ban of the 303 so it was there to do that. just as it indicate by the name it became the ".315 india" only. if they had found another cartridge before for the job the .315 india will be looking different today.
an interesting historic similarity is the french Rival rifle offered in 8x50R Lebel, 303 Brit., 375 Flanged and 405 Win, only the 7mm is missing.






in the end only the mauser can survive

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (10/02/15 07:05 PM)

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jc5
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Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 162
Loc: West Coast, USA
Re: Lee Speed 8x50R chambering [Re: BwanaBob]
      #260246 - 10/02/15 07:10 PM

Quote:



2. 8x51R (which John Walter also identifies as 8x51R French?) should be 8x50R Austrian,

3. .32-40 is a new one to me,



2. Yes
3. The Lee Speed was not chambered in .32-40. This comes from a misreading of the catalogue. There was a single-shot BSA rifle that was chambered for this and it used a Lee-Metford bolt, but it was not a Lee-Speed/Lee-Metford/Lee-Enfield.

--------------------
Researching Lee Speeds and all commercial Lee Enfields. If you have data to share or questions, please send me a PM.

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