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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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ridgerunner_ky
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Reged: 23/01/05
Posts: 44
Loc: Kentucky, U.S.
Best Penetrating Big Bore
      #25995 - 10/02/05 04:09 AM

I was just wondering what is suppost to be the best penetrating big bore 375 and up that we have according to the chart??

and then what seems to be the best big bore that we have from actual field experience??

also what seems to be the absolute best for stopping or turning a charge??

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
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Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: ridgerunner_ky]
      #25999 - 10/02/05 05:32 AM

www.handloads.com/misc/linebaugh.penetration.tests.asp

This should answer your question.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: ridgerunner_ky]
      #26001 - 10/02/05 06:05 AM


ridgerunner_ky

"also what seems to be the absolute best for stopping or turning a charge??"
Any calibre that you have in your hand at the time !!!

No, in reality, it's not just the calibre but also the bullet being used but in general
as long as you can hit the brain / spine and the bullet penetrates, it should stop a charge.

I had a 338 Win Mag in my hands a few weeks ago and copped an unprovoked charge.
Since it had a scope I couldn't go for a brain shot but hitting it in the neck at close range
was enough to turn it.

500 Nitro

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luv2safari
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Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1413
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Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: ridgerunner_ky]
      #26013 - 10/02/05 09:09 AM

All other things being equal, I like a 416 Rigby for penetration and general use.

It seems to me that a great practical stopper is still the 577. Going to the 600 or 700 NE is a bit of overkill and an enormous expense IMHO.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
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Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: ridgerunner_ky]
      #26023 - 10/02/05 11:23 AM

In reply to:



also what seems to be the absolute best for stopping or turning a charge??





IMO a quality solid bullet, placed correctly for a brain shot, and fired from a double rifle!
This is for STOPPING a charge.
Attempting to turn a charge is a completely different story!

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ThomasEdwards
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Reged: 04/01/04
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Loc: Newport Beach, CA
Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: luv2safari]
      #26036 - 10/02/05 02:54 PM

...the .416 rigby seems to have the magical combination of superior sectional density and moderate velocity (see writings by carmichael, robertson and taylor on this topic)...other calibres that have withstood the test of time (some for over a hundred years) from a penetration and efficacy perspective include the 9.3s, .375s and .450s (tho only the .450s qualify as a 'big bore')...

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Nframe
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Reged: 29/12/04
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Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: bonanza]
      #26045 - 10/02/05 05:24 PM

I went to the link provided, was anyone else struck by the 600 Nitro velocity!! 900 gr. at 2300 fps!! How did they do that? Wasn't the original velocity 1900 fps? Ouch I would not want to bench that rifle.

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
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Reged: 24/03/04
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Loc: Western Australia
Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: ridgerunner_ky]
      #26057 - 10/02/05 11:24 PM

416 Rigby or 416 Chatfield Taylor using 400 gn Woodleigh round nose solids..

Either of them ,or depending what is charging a 50 cal Browning Machinegun works wonders when the chips are down and the shit is hitting the fan!!

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

Edited by ALAN_MCKENZIE (10/02/05 11:25 PM)

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DPhillips
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Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 819
Loc: Alaska
Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #26071 - 11/02/05 05:34 AM

I'd put a vote in for the 500 Jeff or 505 Gibbs, both seem to be all that are needed in any situation for a stopping rifle.

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pwm
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Reged: 15/06/04
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Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: DPhillips]
      #26073 - 11/02/05 05:37 AM

do you hear of the Hansen Superpenetrator bullet, this genius design will outperform any other bullet

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butchloc
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Reged: 18/12/04
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Loc: faribault mn
Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: ridgerunner_ky]
      #26083 - 11/02/05 07:48 AM

my 50BMG with AP's seems to penetrate just fine on concrete block walls, engine blocks etc.

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ridgerunner_ky
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Reged: 23/01/05
Posts: 44
Loc: Kentucky, U.S.
Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: bonanza]
      #26124 - 11/02/05 06:42 PM

bonanza,
that is what I wanted I just wish it had more calibers to compare, but thanks though.
also thanks everyone else

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Karl
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Reged: 28/05/03
Posts: 83
Loc: South Pacific
Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: ridgerunner_ky]
      #26133 - 12/02/05 12:05 AM

For playing with a calculator two penetration formulas are
the sectional density X velocity.
And kinetic energy/ area of cross section.
This are actually used for bullets on metal penetration which is not the same of course but still fun.

Don't get too carried away with those handgunner tests.
They are like the lever gun tests set up to also beat nitro express rifles half the time.

Apparently the paper wadding screws nicely with high speed rifle bullets by bunching up in front of the nose and sending the bullets of course.
When we have to hunt animals with 18 inches of paper on their foreheads we will be in trouble.

If there is a case for low velocity and hard cast lead, you would have to ask yourself why every pro african hunter changed to smokeless powders and nitro bullets 100 years ago.

Karl.

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500grains
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Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: bonanza]
      #26152 - 12/02/05 03:40 AM

Linebaugh,

Something is wrong with Linebaugh's penetration tests. He is showing that a 25-20 penetrates deeper than a 9.3 x 62. Bogus.

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thorshammer
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Reged: 27/12/08
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Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: 500grains]
      #127941 - 24/02/09 08:07 PM

375 with 380 grain rhino flatnose solids

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: butchloc]
      #127942 - 24/02/09 08:10 PM

Quote:

my 50BMG with AP's seems to penetrate just fine on concrete block walls, engine blocks etc.




And don't forget people

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9.3x57
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Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: 500grains]
      #127962 - 25/02/09 01:15 AM

Quote:

He is showing that a 25-20 penetrates deeper than a 9.3 x 62. Bogus.



Not necessarily bogus.

Any time the question is asked, the answer MUST explain the medium and bullet speed.

Many handgun bullets penetrate very deeply in various media, though they start slow and may not be very effective or at least certainly not as effective as big bore rifles on game.

Steel plate penetration is another issue. Many high speed bullets are steel cutters but might be very poor choices for use on big game. And within the category of steel plate, the alloy and heat treatment of the steel causes variability of test results as well! The ballistics experts have a term for this that I forget.

That is why I use the media that I do for my tests. Though the media I use does not "duplicate" an animal, it does seem to effect bullets similarly to what game tissue and bone does. Thus, in my experience my media allows comparisons to be made between bullets. Those comparisons seem to run true to what the bullets will do in game, NOT the depth necessarily of penetration, but the comparison between bullets seems valid.

And yes, paper wadding, dry phone books, etc, can have VERY different results on bullets than game tissue.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

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Yogi000
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Reged: 02/03/06
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Loc: New York, USA
Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: 9.3x57]
      #127963 - 25/02/09 04:04 AM

A 223 will out penetrate almost anything else through kevlar vest too. But I think the question is all about BEST Penetrating to achieve BIG GAME STOPPING.... that is much more than simply 'penetration' of a bullet.

I like 500 Nitro Loads. A 535 grain Woodleigh can be mortal to almost anything that walks on earth.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: 500grains]
      #127964 - 25/02/09 04:13 AM

Quote:

Linebaugh,

Something is wrong with Linebaugh's penetration tests. He is showing that a 25-20 penetrates deeper than a 9.3 x 62. Bogus.



That's funny - a friend of mine, old chap and old school used to use his .25/20 for moose. He'd paddle up to a swimming moose and blase away at whatever was above water, usually the head and neck, then the body as it walked up out of the water, usually dropping him by the time he was up on the shore. He averaged 14 shots per moose as total penetration on rib shots would just barely put the bullet into one lung. Very small hole and totally spent. The shots that hit meat usually made 6" penetration only. About bone will stop one, except they'll make it through a rib - no small feat, but usually stopped in a few inches from there.

I guess if you want to badly enough, you can make any claims you want, true or false.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27732
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: DarylS]
      #127966 - 25/02/09 04:24 AM

I smacked a black bear in the face at about 6 feet - walking towards me, rather quickly, it seemed. The load was a 260gr. Speer at 1,960fps from a .45 Colt M94 Trapper - that 'stopped' the charge although the shot was low and only wrecked his lower jaw. It knocked him out for almost 5 minutes. Just as I was about to start cutting, he loudly sucked in a breath kinda like "shheeeeeeeeeeeesh" - didn't take long to plant another through the top of this head. The first one stopped him, while the second killed him. Bear skin is tough- held in all those bond chips. Head was like jelly with nuts.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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viperidae
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Reged: 11/04/08
Posts: 4
Loc: Baltimore, MD USA
Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: ridgerunner_ky]
      #131095 - 01/04/09 05:08 PM

Best = 600 Overkill

In reality, probably the 416s for most of us.

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thorshammer
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Reged: 27/12/08
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Loc: USA
Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: viperidae]
      #131103 - 01/04/09 05:33 PM

600 OVERKILL WILL NOT PENETRATE AS GOOD AS A 416 375 458

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grandveneur
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Reged: 21/09/08
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Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: viperidae]
      #131104 - 01/04/09 05:50 PM

460 Weatherby Magnum !

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: grandveneur]
      #131107 - 01/04/09 06:11 PM

Quote:

460 Weatherby Magnum !




Velocity doesn't equal penetration, in fact it sometimes hinders it.

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Der_Jaeger
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Reged: 09/10/08
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Loc: SE Pennsylvania
Re: Best Penetrating Big Bore [Re: 500Nitro]
      #131123 - 01/04/09 10:17 PM


Sectional density has to increase in proportion to the bore size. As long as sectional density is high for the caliber, then increased velocity will also increase penetration depth.

--------------------

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