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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Lee Speed Forum & Archive
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Norman4
.300 member


Reged: 16/01/15
Posts: 111
Loc: Vermont,USA
Help with shot out bore
      #259148 - 18/01/15 09:03 AM

I purchased a commercial BSA sporter at a local gunshop a while back. I wasn't even sure it was a sporter 'til I got it home and did some extensive research on it. It's the most basic model BSA made. The give-aways were the 24 inch barrel with the folding hood, the bolt mounted safety, and what looked like a carbine type sight, otherwise it looked a lot like any old chopped SMLE. Even had a magazine cut-off and ten shot magazine. I fell in love with it. It points well and cycles easily from the shoulder. Took it out to shoot it and it key-holed every time. Perfectly sideways. I can drop a .314 right through the barrel. I can shoot .318s in it, but the accuracy was lousy. A .323 bullet is too tight to push through with a ramrod. I'm new to your forums and wondered if anyone has had any experience with reboring and or rechambering and, if so, some reliable smiths who might do the work here in the US. Thanks for your time. Norman4

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MikeRowe
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Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 478
Loc: Arkansas, USA
Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: Norman4]
      #259151 - 18/01/15 11:19 AM

If it's the heavier profile you could rebore it to .375x2 1/2" Nitro which was chambered in the Lee Speeds.

Norm Johnson (High Plains Reboring) in Turtle Lake, ND is a good guy to have do the job.

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Norman4
.300 member


Reged: 16/01/15
Posts: 111
Loc: Vermont,USA
Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: MikeRowe]
      #259153 - 18/01/15 11:54 AM

Thanks MikeRowe. I'm not familiar enough with barrel profiles. What's a heavy profile barrel at the muzzle? What is standard? Would .375 2 1/2 require opening the bolt face?

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Norman4
.300 member


Reged: 16/01/15
Posts: 111
Loc: Vermont,USA
Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: Norman4]
      #259154 - 18/01/15 01:52 PM

Here are the pictures if I did everything right.




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MikeRowe
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Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 478
Loc: Arkansas, USA
Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: Norman4]
      #259157 - 18/01/15 02:56 PM

From memory, I think the heavier profile is about .600" at the muzzle, and the lighter one runs about .560".

I don't think the bolt face needs modifications - I'd have to check that.

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9099
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Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: MikeRowe]
      #259158 - 18/01/15 03:24 PM

.315 indian (8x50R Mannlicher) is another possibility

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Norman4
.300 member


Reged: 16/01/15
Posts: 111
Loc: Vermont,USA
Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: lancaster]
      #259162 - 19/01/15 01:06 AM

By the looks of things, I have the standard small barrel diameter. I'm not sure if that would leave enough meat for .375 caliber. It certainly would clean the rifling up. I looked into the .315R. It was a listed caliber for my rifle. I suspect boring to 8mm would clean up the rifling, but would need a smith to ascertain that for me. It would require rechambering and, I assume, some modification of the action? The .315R has a large case diameter which made me question feeding issues in a .303 magazine? Also the rim diameter means opening the bolt face and extractor too. Even from what little reading I've gotten in here in the last few days, it seems the ammo can be problematic. Can you make cases from the 8x56R? I have an M95. I do reload when I have the time, and the cartridge is intriguing and certainly would be adequate for the type of hunting we do here. (Deer,Bear,Moose,Coyote/Wolf) Is there anyone with experience making this conversion? Thanks for the replies! Norman4.

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: Norman4]
      #259164 - 19/01/15 01:46 AM

I have a SMLE sporter, evidently made in India, with the marking ".315" on the breech along with the proof marks. I assumed that the bore had been opened to .315" to comply with the law prohibiting military calibers and simply loaded .303 British brass with .315" bullets I sized down from .323". It seems to work fine, at least to the extent that the bullets do not keyhole. The sighting system is so primitive that I can't really comment on the accuracy.

I wonder if your rifle might have the same chamber as mine.

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Norman4
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Reged: 16/01/15
Posts: 111
Loc: Vermont,USA
Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: xausa]
      #259165 - 19/01/15 02:05 AM

The .315R and the .303 use the same case?

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
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Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: Norman4]
      #259167 - 19/01/15 02:11 AM

Quote:

The .315R and the .303 use the same case?



I don't know. I never heard of the .315R until I happened upon this thread.

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Nailcreek
.300 member


Reged: 13/08/08
Posts: 150
Loc: Saukville, WI, USA
Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: xausa]
      #259169 - 19/01/15 02:26 AM

You might wish to consider re-barreling it. Criterion Barrels will be coming out with a No.1 profile barrel in the future, once their No.4 barrel is up and running.

--------------------
Veni, Vedici, Veggie ... I came, I saw, I had a salad.

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lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9099
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: Nailcreek]
      #259171 - 19/01/15 03:11 AM

the .315 india is the 8x50R Mannlicher
Prvi 8x56R is THE basic case to make it, .323 for barrel diameter
I have the impression reboring and rechambering will clean up the original .303 chamber. probably the 8x50R was choose because reworking existing .303 enfield rifles was trouble free and simple when the .303 cartridge ban came.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Norman4
.300 member


Reged: 16/01/15
Posts: 111
Loc: Vermont,USA
Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: Nailcreek]
      #259175 - 19/01/15 04:14 AM

Quote:

You might wish to consider re-barreling it. Criterion Barrels will be coming out with a No.1 profile barrel in the future, once their No.4 barrel is up and running.



Are you saying Criterion is making a BSA contoured barrel that could be purchased in .303? That would be something to consider, certainly. Wait. I'm rereading your post. You mean they are making a No. 1 SMLE contour barrel? Slightly different, but doable.

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Norman4
.300 member


Reged: 16/01/15
Posts: 111
Loc: Vermont,USA
Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: lancaster]
      #259176 - 19/01/15 04:17 AM

Quote:

the .315 india is the 8x50R Mannlicher
Prvi 8x56R is THE basic case to make it, .323 for barrel diameter
I have the impression reboring and rechambering will clean up the original .303 chamber. probably the 8x50R was choose because reworking existing .303 enfield rifles was trouble free and simple when the .303 cartridge ban came.



It would seem like it made sense. Maybe there wouldn't be much modification of the action required? Does anyone have any experience with this conversion, or am I in new waters here?

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Nailcreek
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Reged: 13/08/08
Posts: 150
Loc: Saukville, WI, USA
Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: Norman4]
      #259177 - 19/01/15 05:16 AM

Criterion is currently getting a No.4 barrel ready for market, after which they've started on the No.1 SMLE barrel. I have dropped off MLE take-off ("heavy barrel") which has the earlier knox (sp) form and the heavier contour, which like yours was shot out. Here's their web site and contact information. I agree, the heavy barrel would be more suited for the BSA, but a lot of them were re-barreled with the later SMLE barrels as well.

http://criterionbarrels.com/

--------------------
Veni, Vedici, Veggie ... I came, I saw, I had a salad.

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: Norman4]
      #259179 - 19/01/15 05:41 AM

Quote:

Quote:

the .315 india is the 8x50R Mannlicher
Prvi 8x56R is THE basic case to make it, .323 for barrel diameter
I have the impression reboring and rechambering will clean up the original .303 chamber. probably the 8x50R was choose because reworking existing .303 enfield rifles was trouble free and simple when the .303 cartridge ban came.



It would seem like it made sense. Maybe there wouldn't be much modification of the action required? Does anyone have any experience with this conversion, or am I in new waters here?



I fear you are the first doing this
iirc, there was once a reboring into 35 WCF which is very close to the 303 base.
read about rechambering into 7,62x54R a cartridge very similar to 8x50R but with a .311 diameter bullet.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (19/01/15 05:58 AM)

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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
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Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: lancaster]
      #259181 - 19/01/15 07:06 AM

I know a bit on this as I have done it, most worn/pitted 303/311-312 barrels will not clean up enough to go to 8mm, I had a light profile (SMLE type) & heavy barrel (MLM/MLE type) bored out to 375 but the 375 is VERY close to the sight holes & has to be keeped to low presure (I dont have the barrels as they can not be send to me now days) we have a poster on this site who rebore to 338/303 (a non Speeder round) & he likes it very much !

I like the look of some of the 9mm rimmed cartridges to !

Oh one barrel to look for & may be found shot/rusted out is a H profile heavy barrel that were made for the SMLE rifle, these have no rear sight holes & can be rebored out to what ever size you like, even up to 40cal, I was thinking of doing a 40/60 Maynard but may well go to 405Win as it will fit in my 1888 type mag .

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Norman4
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Reged: 16/01/15
Posts: 111
Loc: Vermont,USA
Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: Nailcreek]
      #259183 - 19/01/15 07:48 AM

Quote:

Criterion is currently getting a No.4 barrel ready for market, after which they've started on the No.1 SMLE barrel. I have dropped off MLE take-off ("heavy barrel") which has the earlier knox (sp) form and the heavier contour, which like yours was shot out. Here's their web site and contact information. I agree, the heavy barrel would be more suited for the BSA, but a lot of them were re-barreled with the later SMLE barrels as well.

http://criterionbarrels.com/



Thank you for the information Nailcreek. I have had more than a few people tell me to just find an old chopped SMLE and swap the barrels. The only reason I have resisted, is a romantic infatuation with the nonmilitary commercial contour. Which, considering the actual value of the rifle, is probably impractical. But a brand new original SMLE contoured barrel in .303 might not make me feel like I was forsaking a friend. I probably could cut it down to the sporter 24" length and fit a sight to make it look reasonably civilized. I have a fondness for the .303 caliber itself. I live on the Canadian border and the woods were full of sporterized SMLEs in my youth. I suspect that they were only second to the 1894 Winchester carbines in proliferation with the 1899 Savages coming in somewhere after that. I would assume it reasonable to believe that this rifle made the trip down at some point. It sported a weaver side mount and an ancient brass trimmed weaver straight tubed scope. I could see it plausible that it hunted through two generations and the third sold Gramps rifle for cash or traded for a fiberglass stocked Savage in .270. A common enough story up here. In any event, you folks are offering me some plausible options!

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Norman4
.300 member


Reged: 16/01/15
Posts: 111
Loc: Vermont,USA
Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: Sarg]
      #259184 - 19/01/15 07:59 AM

Quote:

I know a bit on this as I have done it, most worn/pitted 303/311-312 barrels will not clean up enough to go to 8mm, I had a light profile (SMLE type) & heavy barrel (MLM/MLE type) bored out to 375 but the 375 is VERY close to the sight holes & has to be keeped to low presure (I dont have the barrels as they can not be send to me now days) we have a poster on this site who rebore to 338/303 (a non Speeder round) & he likes it very much !

I like the look of some of the 9mm rimmed cartridges to !

Oh one barrel to look for & may be found shot/rusted out is a H profile heavy barrel that were made for the SMLE rifle, these have no rear sight holes & can be rebored out to what ever size you like, even up to 40cal, I was thinking of doing a 40/60 Maynard but may well go to 405Win as it will fit in my 1888 type mag .



This is a concern I have in the back of my head. I fear that if I can shoot .318s in it with poor accuracy, that boring to .323 may not clean the barrel enough. My next thought was to go to .338 or .358 if the barrel was thick enough to take it. I have read of some success with the 35/9mm as you may also use pistol bullets for cheap practice and vermin. I haven't found much on the .338 wildcats. I would be suspicious of getting a bullet soft enough to expand reasonably at the estimated velocity. I have a few old Hornady 200grn. bullets for the old .33 Winchester kicking around, but I don't believe they are still in production. A couple interesting alternatives to consider though! Does anyone have experience with either of these wildcats?

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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
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Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: Norman4]
      #259191 - 19/01/15 09:38 AM

I think this tread may help you on the 338/303 looks good other than not a factory Cal.



http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....ic=&Search=

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Rowdy
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Reged: 12/09/04
Posts: 53
Loc: Victoria. Australia
Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: Sarg]
      #259194 - 19/01/15 11:35 AM

The rifle pictured is the BSA #4 sporting carbine which based on the SMLE (No.1) barrel.

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Norman4
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Reged: 16/01/15
Posts: 111
Loc: Vermont,USA
Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: Sarg]
      #259195 - 19/01/15 12:23 PM

Quote:

I think this tread may help you on the 338/303 looks good other than not a factory Cal.



http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....ic=&Search=



At least some solid info. Thanks Sarg.

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Norman4
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Reged: 16/01/15
Posts: 111
Loc: Vermont,USA
Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: Rowdy]
      #259196 - 19/01/15 12:28 PM

Quote:

The rifle pictured is the BSA #4 sporting carbine which based on the SMLE (No.1) barrel.



Thanks Rowdy. Yes, according to the research I've done, it is called a No.4 Sporting carbine. You are right about the contour of the barrel being similar to the SMLE except of course for the 24" length instead of the military 25+" length, which may or may not be the reason for naming it a "carbine", although it's handiness does suggest a smaller rifle than actually it is.

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DoubleD
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Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: Norman4]
      #259207 - 20/01/15 01:21 AM

This rifle looks to be good candidate for relining and kept .303. Get a liner from TJ's, send it and the Rifle to John Taylor Machine for the work.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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Norman4
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Reged: 16/01/15
Posts: 111
Loc: Vermont,USA
Re: Help with shot out bore [Re: DoubleD]
      #259212 - 20/01/15 09:20 AM

Quote:

This rifle looks to be good candidate for relining and kept .303. Get a liner from TJ's, send it and the Rifle to John Taylor Machine for the work.



If that is a feasible option I like the sound of it. I like the .303 cartridge. If you could give me more information, DoubleD, I'd definitely pursue that further. That way everything could work together the way it's supposed to and I get to keep everything original. Including the markings and the barrel. Then it would be back in business as a classy little meat getter!

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