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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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GPJ12345
.300 member


Reged: 18/08/12
Posts: 149
Loc: South Africa
Side x side shotgun actions conversion builds acceptable?
      #258233 - 25/12/14 06:24 AM

Good day members

The past year or two I read about double rifle builds using side x side shotgun actions. On this forum especially various members build beautiful double rifles on shotgun actions, feedback is great and their builds do not have to stand back comparing to double rifles build by known companies....my opinion naturally...

My question : how acceptable are these builds in the expensive/real double rifle environment , on other forums I noticed remarks like " cheapies, poor man `s double, back yard double" and yet I can not find fault with the craftsmanship of members building these exceptional double rifles on shotgun actions...

Are there specific rules to abide by when engaging such a build? How much "inferior " are such a build in comparison to the double rifles build by companies like Sabatti, Merkel, Westley&Richards , CZ ect?

I really would like to hear your honest opinion in this regards...

Gert

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ChrisPer
.300 member


Reged: 12/05/08
Posts: 235
Loc: Australia
Re: Side x side shotgun actions conversion builds acceptable? [Re: GPJ12345]
      #258239 - 25/12/14 11:24 AM

Remember everything you read is filtered through preconceptions.
In someone else's eyes, its wrong - possibly including your eyes.

How many crap builds and half finished, or even half-started builds are out there?

So I suggest that to people interested in buying right, first time, to do the intended job, the uncertainty hinted at in a conversion is exactly what they are not looking for.

To the rest of us, eg with half-rebuilt planes in the garage and a backlog of interesting gun projects, these are a way to participate in the DR world that challenges our technical interest. Like any such sphere of endeavour we expect a spectrum of quality in inputs - and outputs.

For 'affordable range' DR buyers, the conversion is a potential money pit, only justified because we can - or maybe we can, one day. Far better to run a lemonade stall and buy a known good one out of the profits if we want certainty of results.

Edited by ChrisPer (25/12/14 11:40 AM)

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Mauser416
.300 member


Reged: 20/06/07
Posts: 162
Loc: Corpus Christi, Texas
Re: Side x side shotgun actions conversion builds acceptable? [Re: GPJ12345]
      #258243 - 25/12/14 03:37 PM

Ellis Brown wrote a book about making such conversions which has a wealth of information. As mentioned in the previous post many observations are "filtered" from a particular perspective whether good or bad. Butch Searcy (U.S.) started out building conversions.

Unless your gun is built by a gunsmith with a well-established reputation it will "always" be held as second class when compared to the established makers such as Heym, Merkel, Blaser, etc. ... well maybe not Blaser according to some, LOL.

When done by a knowledgeable person I think conversions guns offer a highly custom product at a "reasonable" price. Folks doing such conversions are typically open to a fairly wide range of cartridges. I have one in the works and have chosen 45-120 as the cartridge. The brass is significantly cheaper than the 450 NE and is a bit easier to find. If you want a .303 from one of the big makers you may end up with a custom project but with a conversion gun the cost could be no different than if you had chosen one of the typical chamberings.

You do have to be careful when dealing with conversion guns. My first attempt at engaging a smith for this was a total disaster. Just because someone is a good rifle smith does not mean they are a good double rifle smith.

I think many folks would agree that one of Searcy's earlier conversions is probably better than a production SIACE, FAIR or Sabatti.

There are always exceptions but for the most part I think conversions will be held in a lesser position to the established production guns when it comes to monetary worth. From a mechanical standpoint I think a conversion guns can be just as good as production guns. I've seen some conversion guns built on Beretta guns by one of the forum members that are works of art in their own right. While I love my Sabatti 450-400 I would definitely hold their conversion guns above the Sabatti. The conversion gun will cost about the same as the Sabatti was listed for but the conversion gun will give me the choice of chambering, sights, length of pull, forearm type, barrel length, gun weight, regulating load, etc. Mine will happen to be built on a sidelock action.

Eric

--------------------
There is nothing worse in this world than an enslaved man who naively believes himself free, except, perhaps, trying to explain to that same man his predicament.

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GPJ12345
.300 member


Reged: 18/08/12
Posts: 149
Loc: South Africa
Re: Side x side shotgun actions conversion builds acceptable? [Re: Mauser416]
      #258244 - 25/12/14 04:59 PM

Chrisper/Mauser416

From my perspective I view such a build as extremely challenging , technically,intellectually and financially in a way since having access to material and machines the financial aspect is less daunting . The "acceptability factor" features as a low, low factor for I am satisfied it will be to my liking ...I accept purchasing a high grade double from well known brands will not be possible in my case while I own big bore rifles (404 Jeffery/.458 Mannlicher Schonauer) that can do any big game hunt, financially it does not make sense of engaging in such a financial layout while you have the tools already to do a dangerous game hunt with..

Looking at the processes in building a shotgun action it is even possible that procedures adapt by the likes of forum members can be a better concept than brand/off the shelf commercial brands..

I will definitely venture into such a building process and believe this is an endeavor that will for certain evolve rapidly maybe creating a market where even these big brands will make available components to such a market like we find today in the commercial world..

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Mauser416
.300 member


Reged: 20/06/07
Posts: 162
Loc: Corpus Christi, Texas
Re: Side x side shotgun actions conversion builds acceptable? [Re: GPJ12345]
      #258259 - 26/12/14 09:44 AM

While I definitely lack the skills and the equipment to conduct such a build I am always interested in seeing the work in progress. Please post pictures and commentary should you undertake a conversion.

Eric

--------------------
There is nothing worse in this world than an enslaved man who naively believes himself free, except, perhaps, trying to explain to that same man his predicament.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Side x side shotgun actions conversion builds acceptable? [Re: Mauser416]
      #258282 - 27/12/14 03:07 AM

I'm thinking a SXS by Ron Vella in .303 Brit might be all a BC guy needs for big game hunting, from black bear and deer to moose and elk. Yes - I could stick with one of those & perhaps, sell the rest.(probably have to sell ALL the rest just to afford it)

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ckhobart
.275 member


Reged: 26/06/13
Posts: 84
Loc: Reno, NV
Re: Side x side shotgun actions conversion builds acceptable? [Re: DarylS]
      #258359 - 29/12/14 11:32 AM

all about the journey. For me this is a matter of interest and hopefully, someday, getting to pursue it. Until then I'll keep tinkering with my bolt and semi automatic guns, and playing with metal and wood on my down time =P

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GPJ12345
.300 member


Reged: 18/08/12
Posts: 149
Loc: South Africa
Re: Side x side shotgun actions conversion builds acceptable? [Re: Ckhobart]
      #258821 - 09/01/15 07:10 AM

I agree, I noticed an increase regarding shotgun action builds, it seems a lot of new builds are in progress, even on other forums people talk and discuss this kind of build. The book written by Ellis Brown seems to be in great demand. As mentioned previously I do think this is going to be the next best trend in rifle building. I even think there is going to be a supply of stronger shotgun actions developing to sustain this trend in the long run...some rifle part supplier will really do good if such an item can be provided at affordable price...the market surly is going to expand...this is my opinion....

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