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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Buster95
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Reged: 01/11/10
Posts: 65
Loc: Canada
458 win mag barrel life.
      #255709 - 26/10/14 07:45 AM

I'm interested in a Ruger No.1 in 458 win mag with a couple of hundreds rounds through it, what's the expected barrel life for a 458 win mag?

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 458 win mag barrel life. [Re: Buster95]
      #255712 - 26/10/14 09:48 AM

You should get thousands, if not tens of thousands.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
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Re: 458 win mag barrel life. [Re: tinker]
      #255715 - 26/10/14 11:32 AM

.458 Win Mag Barrel life???

I put 15,000 rounds through my McGowen .458 barrel. That tore the cartilage in my right shoulder, around 14,000, but NEVER GIVE UP!
I retired the barrel and sold it to a friend. It is still being used.
It was in perfect condition when sold, internally and still grouping at 1" or a bit better when using 350gr. Hornady or Speer bullets. Both are VERY accurate. I was only running those at 2,290fps.
I do not think you can wear one out in a single lifetime. Not many people shoot them as much as I did over the 30 years I shot it.
The bullets included cast, jacketed and bullets made from ctg. brass in weights to 550gr. and as light as my grouse load of a 230gr. Speer .452" pistol RN over 15gr. AL-8 + kapok fill for 1,340fps and 3" groups at 100 yards. I head shot 34 grouse and ptarmigan one fall near Smithers with that load.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: Australia
Re: 458 win mag barrel life. [Re: DarylS]
      #255725 - 26/10/14 02:03 PM

I doubt you could wear out a .458 Win barrel in a couple lifetimes *thumbs up*

I've never seen a shot out one.

--------------------
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Buster95
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Reged: 01/11/10
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Loc: Canada
Re: 458 win mag barrel life. [Re: Ash]
      #255727 - 26/10/14 03:57 PM

Thanks for the replies guys.

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
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Re: 458 win mag barrel life. [Re: Buster95]
      #255755 - 26/10/14 11:12 PM

This article is interesting - it doesn't claim to be the whole answer, but it is interesting that the .458 is very low on the list and thus all things being equal should have relatively long barrel life...
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/overbore-cartridges-defined-by-formula/

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mauserand9mm
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Reged: 03/09/09
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Re: 458 win mag barrel life. [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #255757 - 26/10/14 11:34 PM

Yes, throat erosion will cause the death of accuracy, and overbore cartridges accelerate the process. I have a friend who has worn out a few barrels on his 338WM and now his 416Rigby. Until he came along, I'd only every heard of benchrest shooters replacing barrels relatively frequently. My friend does shoot a lot BTW.

I suspect otherwise that neglect or (mechanical) damage by poor cleaning procedures would cause the demise of many hunting rifle barrels.

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Jim_C
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Re: 458 win mag barrel life. [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #255765 - 27/10/14 05:43 AM

Throat erosion was my first thought. I shot the throat out of an early Winchester .458 while experimenting with light bullets and some faster powders. Barring that, I don't think barrel life would really be a concern.

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DarylS
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Re: 458 win mag barrel life. [Re: Jim_C]
      #255771 - 27/10/14 08:35 AM

Interesting, Jim. If mine had throat erosion, it did not show in the groups it was capable of shooting.

Even the home made bullets using sized down & shortened .250 Savage and .30/06 cases, along with merely shortened, lead filled .35 Rem and rim-trimmed .303 cases with bullets to 480gr. shot into 1 1/2" at 100 yards. I was only driving those just over 2,000fps - some I annealed, some I didn't.

15,000 is a lot more shooting than most people put through their .458's and that was only my first one. My second one finished of the cartilage in my shoulder so I down-graded in bore sizes to .375's and 9.3's- both favourites at this time.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
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Re: 458 win mag barrel life. [Re: Jim_C]
      #255772 - 27/10/14 08:36 AM

Interesting, Jim. If mine had throat erosion, it did not show in the groups it was capable of shooting.

Even the home made bullets using sized down & shortened .250 Savage and .30/06 cases, along with merely shortened, lead filled .35 Rem and rim-trimmed .303 cases with bullets to 480gr. shot into 1 1/2" at 100 yards. I was only driving those just over 2,000fps - some I annealed, some I didn't.

15,000 is a lot more shooting than most people put through their .458's and that was only my first one. My second one finished off the cartilage in my shoulder so I down-graded in bore sizes to .375's and 9.3's- both favourites at this time.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Jim_C
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Reged: 09/08/14
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Re: 458 win mag barrel life. [Re: DarylS]
      #255786 - 27/10/14 12:49 PM

Daryl, I had the good fortune to grow up around a great bunch of enablers. They made sure I had work to pay for my shooting, and then made sure I had access to guns and ammo to fill my spare time. JB offered to let me try to wear out his .458 (and he knew me well enough to know I'd give it a serious try).

He had put about 200 rounds through the rifle, and I put another 1,000 or so factory-equivalent handloads through it. After that I kind of "Super-vel'd" it, loading bumped-up pistol slugs at absurd velocities.

That--several thousand 230 grain bullets at about 2,800 fps--was probably what killed the throat in the barrel. Group sizes at 100 yards almost doubled, even with factory loads. When the rifle was re-barreled about '87 or so, I sectioned it to look at the throat. The erosion was pretty bad for a bit more than an inch.

I've since become more cautious in my loading practices.

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 458 win mag barrel life. [Re: Jim_C]
      #255788 - 27/10/14 03:02 PM

Hey Jim - what powder did you use to get that 2800fps?

I have a very fast load with the 350gr Barnes TSX loaded at Lott length with (if I recall) 2230 powder
It's a MOA or better load from my whitworth.
Expensive to load, I worked it up and haven't used it since.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39203
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: 458 win mag barrel life. [Re: tinker]
      #255796 - 27/10/14 07:01 PM

I wonder if shooting mono-metal bullets especially improperly designed ones can reduce barrel life significantly?

Same with lead core bullets with two tough or thick jackets?

It has always been advised to minimise the use of FMJ bullets in double rifles to extend barrel life, so ... ?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Jim_C
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Re: 458 win mag barrel life. [Re: NitroX]
      #255867 - 28/10/14 11:58 AM

Tinker, you did catch that I was a teenager when I worked those loads up, right? Teenagers have never been known for their common sense. I was working without benefit of a chronograph, and didn't know the technique of measuring expansion rings of cases to judge relative pressures.

Even annealing the necks, brass life was short. (I had what I suspect was the only "small base" 458Win sizing die in the state, and used it often.) Most of the loads were worked up with surplus powders, usually 3031 and 4198 or equivalent "data powders". A drop tube was used to get more powder in the case.

The bullets were typically jacketed 45 pistol bullets, bumped up to .458" with a cannelure added. Bullets were given a _firm_ crimp. FMJs performed better than the lighter HPs; I was never sure if that was due to the weight, the length, or the thicker jacket.

Ball C was a lot more consistently accurate, but velocities were lower. If I were going to do further light bullet/high velocity experiments with the 458, I'd look at powders in the range of 2230 to BLC-2.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
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Re: 458 win mag barrel life. [Re: Jim_C]
      #255916 - 29/10/14 02:18 AM

Some time ago, a Gun Digest, or perhaps Guns and Ammo Annual had an article on casting and loading ZINC bullets in the .458Win, Mag., along with or another article on shooting 220gr. .308 bullets in a .458 Mag, using nylon 'sabots' turned (at slow speed) on a lathe. Their 220gr. bullets were hitting point on, so I assume a 14" or 15" twist at the just over 3,000fps the author was achieving.

The extremely light weight zinc bullets, between 100 and 200gr. were being shot with horrifically fast pistol or maybe shot gun powders and some achieved speeds over 4,000fps.

Throat life unknown but possibly short?

At the time, I experimented with the 220gr. bullets and nylon sabots when I lived in Smithers (in 77 or 78), but did not have much success with them - point-on impacts (15" twist x 22" McGowen tube) but huge 6" groups at 100yards and were running close to 2,950fps,IIRC? I had my own Oehler M12 chronograph with sky screens at that time.

These were tested in my first .458 - the one I used for 15,000 rounds - grouse to moose. I retired that barrel in about 2005 - again, iirc. Sometimes are as sharp and clear as to dates, while others slip off into obscurity.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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albertan
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Reged: 13/06/06
Posts: 432
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: 458 win mag barrel life. [Re: DarylS]
      #260128 - 08/02/15 10:16 AM

More guns are damaged due to neglect than actual shooting. Many of today's dangerous game bullets are fouling monsters. The Hornady Dangerous Game series, whether soft or solid, employ a steel jacket that is plated with a small amount of copper to preserve your barrels rifling. That copper is very soft and after a good days shooting, you will swear you have a plague of copper. The Barnes solids can mix up with your other gilding metal bullets and the fouling will be severe. Modern copper removers such as Wipe Out are a real blessing.

Keep your barrel clean, and your gun properly lubricated, and you will have your .458 for a lifetime.

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