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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing

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Flying_Y_Farms
.224 member

Reged: 01/10/14
Posts: 8
Loc: Oregon, Klamath

450 NE vs 450 No. 2 NE
#254913 - 09/10/14 05:15 PM

what is the good bad and ugly between the two of these calibers, will not be hunting dangerous game just playing around the ranch. Keep in mind just bought a merkel shotgun to do a conversion, biggest thing we will see are bears and elk more or less its just for fun.

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado

Re: 450 NE vs 450 No. 2 NE [Re: Flying_Y_Farms]
#254946 - 09/10/14 11:54 PM

Performance wise, the 450 3-1/4 does everything the No.2 does but is a higher pressure round.
Of course, components for the 3-1/4 are easier and less expensive to get but that No.2 shell is sure to impress your buddies.
Since you are building your own, you could of course load either to whatever power you want and the 3-1/4 is easier in this regard. You can literally go from 45ACP power all the way to full nitro loads with the powders and techniques available today. That is more difficult with the huge case volume of the No.2.

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Crusader68
.224 member

Reged: 25/11/11
Posts: 41
Loc: Baton Rouge, LA

Re: 450 NE vs 450 No. 2 NE [Re: Huvius]
#256893 - 17/11/14 12:11 PM

The no 2 was designed because the straight walled 3-1/4" was supposedly causing malfunctions when the cases expanded during firing and subsequently failed to extract or became jammed. Explanations I've read cite the reason being due to the heat of Africa/India causing higher than expected chamber pressure, and so the No 2 was developed as a bottle-necked round to alleviate this "problem". I call it a "problem" because I've not heard of any such problem with modern components, and the 3-1/4" is still much more widely produced than the No 2. As Huvius said brass for the 3-1/4" is much more easy to find and can be loaded with reduced loads that can allow dialing back the power for almost any hunting, deer or hogs and larger. That's why I'm building a 3-1/4" for myself at the moment, components are more widely available and in many cases cheaper than pretty much any other vintage chambering for doubles.

--------------------
Erik S.
"... mais épargnez le visage"

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado

Re: 450 NE vs 450 No. 2 NE [Re: Crusader68]
#256896 - 17/11/14 12:29 PM

Quote:

That's why I'm building a 3-1/4" for myself at the moment, components are more widely available and in many cases cheaper than pretty much any other vintage chambering for doubles.

Tell us about your build!

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Ron_Vella
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: 450 NE vs 450 No. 2 NE [Re: Huvius]
#256970 - 19/11/14 11:34 AM

I built and shoot a #2 so I'm biased. Have taken quite a bit of game with it including some long-range shots, eg: Sable at 208 yards. The beauty of it is that it's one of those huge cartridges that Robert Ruark described as "panatella-sized" and you'd feel confident if you held two between the fingers of your left hand while facing Tyranosaurus Rex!

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Ash
.400 member

Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1653
Loc: Australia

Re: 450 NE vs 450 No. 2 NE [Re: Ron_Vella]
#256973 - 19/11/14 12:17 PM

^
Except that ballistically the 2 are the same. Only difference is the .450 3 1/4" does it with less of everything (except pressure, which really isnt an issue nowadays). And also cheaper.
<- Biased because i have a .450 3 1/4" :P

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.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 450 NE vs 450 No. 2 NE [Re: Ash]
#256976 - 19/11/14 01:27 PM

In making a .45 cal. up on a shotgun action, I'd probably have Ron chamber it for the #2 case - or go all funky and get a .450 No1 Ex. THAT is a most LOVELY ctg. at 2 3/4" length for a double rifle for North American game even if you can't get copper tubed paper patched bullets any more - I could make something work very well indeed, but I need the rifle- anyone?

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ron_Vella
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: 450 NE vs 450 No. 2 NE [Re: DarylS]
#256997 - 20/11/14 04:50 AM

Daryl,
I just love your new tag line. Mind you, three Cavalier King Charles Spaniels live with us, so again, I'm biased!

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39883
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: 450 NE vs 450 No. 2 NE [Re: Ron_Vella]
#257297 - 28/11/14 10:48 AM

Quote:

I built and shoot a #2 so I'm biased. Have taken quite a bit of game with it including some long-range shots, eg: Sable at 208 yards. The beauty of it is that it's one of those huge cartridges that Robert Ruark described as "panatella-sized" and you'd feel confident if you held two between the fingers of your left hand while facing Tyranosaurus Rex!

Because more is not less.

I'm biased too, also having one. And if one has a NE, it needs to be impressive, not some short shit cartridge.

***

On a serious note, I did note when once buying brass from Bertram for both .450 No. 2 NE and .577/.450 Martini-Henry, that BOTH cases were the most expensive in his price catalogue.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Ron_Vella
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: 450 NE vs 450 No. 2 NE [Re: NitroX]
#257350 - 29/11/14 08:05 PM

Yesterday, I went to my library of Africana, looking for something to re-read. I decided on "Horn Of The Hunter" and began to re-live, vicariously, Robert Chester Ruark's first hunt with Ker and Downey Safaris. I had completely forgotten that Harry Selby's heavy rifle was a double, built by John Rigby and Son, in calibre, drum-roll here please, .450 No. 2 Nitro Express. Now I ask you, gentlemen, what higher recommendation could a cartridge want?

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 450 NE vs 450 No. 2 NE [Re: Ron_Vella]
#257360 - 30/11/14 06:34 AM

Wonderfull! - but - the #1 Express would be even more fun in a DR. I have a factory Kynock .450 #1 Express and do enjoy looking at it, now and then - comparing it to the .45 3 1/4" & .50 4 1/4" - and others. They are impressive, all of them.

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Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ron_Vella
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada

Re: 450 NE vs 450 No. 2 NE [Re: DarylS]
#257395 - 01/12/14 06:25 AM

Daryl,
For the sake of nostalgia, the #1 would be nice in a hammer gun with Jones under-lever. But for use on stuff like mbogo and njovu, I'll take the extra power of the #2 every time!

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 450 NE vs 450 No. 2 NE [Re: Ron_Vella]
#257441 - 02/12/14 04:16 AM

HA! - guess I'm just a nostalgic sort of guy.

I see your point, though - so - a 10 bore would suffice- with hardened round balls, of course - for a sporting sort of adventure.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ckhobart
.275 member

Reged: 26/06/13
Posts: 84
Loc: Reno, NV

Re: 450 NE vs 450 No. 2 NE [Re: Ron_Vella]
#258364 - 29/12/14 12:06 PM

I've got a box of 20 converted brass shotgun cases for the MH but have yet to slug the barrel. Dies in the garage... need to get that done one of these days, haha! Nothing quite like the "twang" when the action tosses the brass in that thing. But what I'm getting at is: yes, what these guys said. Very expensive.

No .458 lott here? =P

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Grenadier
.375 member

Reged: 20/02/08
Posts: 570
Loc: North of the Columbia, USA

Re: 450 NE vs 450 No. 2 NE [Re: Ckhobart]
#258365 - 29/12/14 12:21 PM

It would be nice to see a picture of these three rounds together. That is, for those of us who have only seen and fired the ho-hum 450 NE 3-1/4".

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~

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