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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns

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Tuzi
.224 member


Reged: 14/11/03
Posts: 5
.308 Win. in a drilling?
      #25328 - 28/01/05 11:27 PM

Will the extractor / ejector be reliable - work with .308Win. in a break-open rifle such as a drilling?
I like the .30 calibre but I don't want the .30R Blaser.

Tuzi


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shatter
.224 member


Reged: 02/01/05
Posts: 41
Loc: Germany
Re: .308 Win. in a drilling? [Re: Tuzi]
      #25329 - 28/01/05 11:46 PM

Drillings and Bockbüchsflinten (Over-and-Under-Shotgun-Rifles) are fairly often used in Germany.

I know two guys who own Bockbüchsflinten in 12/70 and 30/06. They report no problems at all. Anyway, I myself would always use a rimmed (flanged?) cartridge in a break-action gun.

Just remember, you can download a 30R to the level of a .308, but not vice versa. Also - if a 30 cal rimless - why not a 30/06?

Joachim


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shatter
.224 member


Reged: 02/01/05
Posts: 41
Loc: Germany
Re: .308 Win. in a drilling? [Re: Tuzi]
      #25331 - 29/01/05 12:39 AM

btw, if you can read German: Thread in German Hunter Forum

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: .308 Win. in a drilling? [Re: Tuzi]
      #25334 - 29/01/05 01:26 AM

The J.P.Sauer 3000 would have to be one of the most popular 'modern' drillings exported to the West, even marketed in the US by Colt I believe! Its most commonly encountered chambering would have to be 12/70 x .30-06. Never heard of one failing to extract.

My mate has one, and was hunting pigs with it last week as a matter of fact. His ancestry is Kraut, so he has a soft-spot for European hardware.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
Loc: United States
Re: .308 Win. in a drilling? [Re: Marrakai]
      #25386 - 29/01/05 03:19 PM

I have a J.P. Sauer 3000 drilling in 12/12/30-06 and have never experienced an extraction problem. I have also shot several others and noticed that Sauer cuts the chambers to taper out a bit wider toward the rear of the chamber. I believe this is to aid extraction of the rimless cases. It doesn't make for very good brass for reloading, but never sticks a case in the chamber...

I would much prefer the 30-06 over a 308 in a drilling; the longer cases are easier to handle and drop into the gun, IMHO. You will notice that most all traditional drilling rounds are long and slender.

My 12/'06 drilling is quite accurate with the 6x Nickel Supra scope in claws...added bonus is that the right shotgun barrel shoots a traditional Brenneke slug the same place at 80 meters that the '06 shoots a 180 gr PSP Remington factory round...about 1" at 1-O'clock on average.

Weatherby handled the Sauer 3000s for a while (as well as Colt did later on) at the time Sauer was making the MKV for Weatherby. Some of the 3000s had a Weatherby logo on them, in fact. Mine has Weatherby papers, but no logo other than Sauer.

If you keep your pressures in check, you shouldn't have any extraction problems.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

Edited by luv2safari (29/01/05 03:33 PM)


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davem3
.300 member


Reged: 10/02/04
Posts: 121
Loc: birmingham,al usa
Re: .308 Win. in a drilling? [Re: Tuzi]
      #25430 - 30/01/05 12:10 PM

Look up the .307 Winchester, it is a standard 308 with a rim. (Like the rimmed version of the .222 Remington.)
Dave


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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: .308 Win. in a drilling? [Re: luv2safari]
      #25950 - 09/02/05 03:20 PM

My wife has a Sauer drilling in 12x12x30-06. She lets me borrow it once in a while, and I have snuck it out a few times. I have also shot it a fair amount testing 30-06 loads in it. I have never had any extraction problems, or any other kind for that matter. I have used the same brass for up to 5 firings without any signs of failure.

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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
Loc: United States
Re: .308 Win. in a drilling? [Re: NE450No2]
      #26014 - 10/02/05 09:24 AM

No.2

Have you noticed any signs of a somewhat larger chamber in your wife's drilling? Mine and two others I have shot seemed to have a somewhat larger than average chamber near the rear of the case. The chamber tapers out more at the rear than do my various bolt action '06s. My Valmets in 30-06 show this characteristic, also. I checked both chambers in my Valmet u/o 30-06 and my two 12/'06 barrel sets.

This may be the designers' answer to possible extraction problems with rimless cases.

And, if you ever find yourself in the doghouse just when you need to borrow her drilling, you can always ask me for a loan of mine...

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics


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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: .308 Win. in a drilling? [Re: luv2safari]
      #26115 - 11/02/05 03:02 PM

The rear of the case does seem to have a slight swell to it.
When I get a chance I will mike some cases, and compare them to some 30-06 fired in a Garand and a bolt rifle.
Thanks for the offer to use your drilling. If she found out I had another one to use she might cut me off for good.
She has been pretty good this deer season because she was hunting for a big buck with her Rem Mod 7 308.
She did not get the big buck, she is pretty picky, she even passed on a buck with "points" comming out the back of the horns several inches.... He was just not quite wide enough.
She did shoot a nice pig at 20 yards though.
One shot through the shoulders, he went right down and did not even kick.


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luv2safari
.400 member


Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1401
Loc: United States
Re: .308 Win. in a drilling? [Re: NE450No2]
      #26149 - 12/02/05 03:10 AM

#2

If she is THAT pickey, why is she still hanging with you?

I have noticed that all my break open rifles...o/u or combo guns...exhibit this:

1. The rimless chambers allow the case to swell more than do bolt action guns in the same calibers.

2. Rimmed case guns seem to have much tighter chambers than do the rimless chambered DRs/combos.

This is arrived at by checking a total of 6 barrels (break open guns) in rimless chamberings and 9 barrels chambered in rimmed.

I am also refering only to commercialy made bolt action rifles. My surplus military based rifles have loose chambers...much looser than the commercial turnbolts...




--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

Edited by luv2safari (12/02/05 03:17 AM)


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Robie
.275 member


Reged: 04/04/03
Posts: 61
Re: .308 Win. in a drilling? [Re: shatter]
      #26499 - 18/02/05 09:05 AM

Hello Shatter

You mentioned one can load the .30R to the level of a .308Win?
Do you have any reloading data? It will be much appreciated.
Thank you

Robie J.


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shatter
.224 member


Reged: 02/01/05
Posts: 41
Loc: Germany
Re: .308 Win. in a drilling? [Re: Robie]
      #26500 - 18/02/05 10:17 AM

calibre: -308
bullet: .308, 150, SPR BTSP 2022
Powder: VV N140
load: 45,7grs
V0: 2797 fps
pressure 53689 (estim.)
energy: 2606 ft-lbs.
code:

Patrone : .308 Win.
Geschoss : .308, 150, SPR BTSP 2022
Patronenlänge L6 : 2.800 inch or 71.12 mm
Lauflänge : 23.6 inch or 600.0 mm
Pulver : Vihtavuori N140

Tabelle mit abgstuften Ladungen
in Stufen von 2,0% der eingegebenen Nennladung
V O R S I C H T: Maximal- und minimal zulässige Ladungen werden überschritten.

Diff Füll. Ladung v0 E0 Pmax Pmünd Abbrand D_Zeit
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20,0 80 36,56 2287 1742 28730 5976 95,1 1,479
-18,0 82 37,47 2339 1823 30603 6133 96,0 1,440
-16,0 84 38,39 2391 1905 32598 6283 96,8 1,403
-14,0 86 39,30 2443 1988 34726 6425 97,5 1,366
-12,0 88 40,22 2495 2073 36985 6557 98,1 1,330
-10,0 90 41,13 2546 2159 39366 6681 98,6 1,294
-08,0 92 42,04 2597 2246 41886 6795 99,1 1,258
-06,0 94 42,96 2648 2335 44566 6899 99,4 1,223
-04,0 96 43,87 2698 2424 47418 6992 99,7 1,190
-02,0 98 44,79 2748 2515 50454 7074 99,9 1,159
+00,0 100 45,70 2797 2606 53689 7145 100,0 1,128 ! STARKE LADUNG !
+02,0 102 46,61 2846 2698 57137 7205 100,0 1,098 ! STARKE LADUNG !
+04,0 104 47,53 2894 2790 60815 7261 100,0 1,070 !ÜBERDRUCK - NICHT VERWENDEN!
+06,0 106 48,44 2942 2884 64742 7315 100,0 1,042 !ÜBERDRUCK - NICHT VERWENDEN!
+08,0 108 49,36 2990 2978 68939 7366 100,0 1,016 !ÜBERDRUCK - NICHT VERWENDEN!
+10,0 110 50,27 3037 3073 73429 7416 100,0 0,990 !ÜBERDRUCK - NICHT VERWENDEN!

Auswirkung einer ± 10-prozentigen Los-zu-Los Pulverabbrandschwankung bei Nennladung
Abbrandgeschwindigkeit gegenüber dem Nennwert erhöht um 10%
+Ba 100 45,70 2894 2789 63909 6853 100,0 1,054 !ÜBERDRUCK - NICHT VERWENDEN!
Abbrandgeschwindigkeit gegenüber dem Nennwert reduziert um 10%
-Ba 100 45,70 2653 2344 43674 7249 97,2 1,227



calibre: 30R,
bullet: .308, 150, SPR BTSP 2022
Powder: VV N140
load: 56grs
V0: 2847 fps
pressure 51186psi (estim.)
energy: 2700 ft-lbs.

code:

Patrone : .30 R Blaser
Geschoss : .308, 150, SPR BTSP 2022
Patronenlänge L6 : 3.590 inch or 91.19 mm
Lauflänge : 23.6 inch or 600.0 mm
Pulver : Vihtavuori N140

Tabelle mit abgstuften Ladungen
in Stufen von 2,0% der eingegebenen Nennladung
V O R S I C H T: Maximal- und minimal zulässige Ladungen werden überschritten.

Diff Füll. Ladung v0 E0 Pmax Pmünd Abbrand D_Zeit
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms

-20,0 69 44,80 2372 1874 29209 7503 98,0 1,481
-18,0 71 45,92 2422 1954 30945 7672 98,6 1,449
-16,0 72 47,04 2472 2035 32770 7831 99,1 1,418
-14,0 74 48,16 2521 2116 34691 7978 99,4 1,388
-12,0 76 49,28 2569 2198 36711 8113 99,7 1,358
-10,0 77 50,40 2617 2281 38834 8236 99,9 1,323
-08,0 79 51,52 2664 2365 41065 8346 100,0 1,289
-06,0 81 52,64 2711 2448 43410 8445 100,0 1,256
-04,0 83 53,76 2757 2532 45875 8541 100,0 1,225
-02,0 84 54,88 2803 2616 48464 8635 100,0 1,195
+00,0 86 56,00 2847 2700 51186 8728 100,0 1,165 ! STARKE LADUNG !
+02,0 88 57,12 2892 2785 54046 8819 100,0 1,138 ! STARKE LADUNG !
+04,0 89 58,24 2936 2870 57053 8908 100,0 1,111 ! STARKE LADUNG !
+06,0 91 59,36 2979 2956 60214 8996 100,0 1,085 !ÜBERDRUCK - NICHT VERWENDEN!
+08,0 93 60,48 3022 3041 63540 9081 100,0 1,060 !ÜBERDRUCK - NICHT VERWENDEN!
+10,0 95 61,60 3064 3128 67038 9165 100,0 1,035 !ÜBERDRUCK - NICHT VERWENDEN!

Auswirkung einer ± 10-prozentigen Los-zu-Los Pulverabbrandschwankung bei Nennladung
Abbrandgeschwindigkeit gegenüber dem Nennwert erhöht um 10%
+Ba 86 56,00 2929 2858 59607 8475 100,0 1,093 !ÜBERDRUCK - NICHT VERWENDEN!
Abbrandgeschwindigkeit gegenüber dem Nennwert reduziert um 10%
-Ba 86 56,00 2724 2471 42701 9010 99,3 1,263



Please note: I do not issue any warranty for the data, as it ist calculated with QuickLoad and NOT VERIFIED.
Please take it as an example only.
If you have a favorite powder you want to use, or a bullet ...

Joachim


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