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Kappa
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Reged: 23/08/13
Posts: 20
Loc: USA
Driven hunting for Wild Boar (action type)
      #252604 - 25/08/14 01:41 AM

I have a question for our European members as well as members of other nationalities who have first hand experience hunting driven boar in Europe.

Does firepower matter? I was watching that Sauer video in which Franz Albrecht talks about "firepower" (magazine capacity) and he says something that made a lot of sense: that sometimes you only have one or two chances at running game in a day and that they can come in groups all at once. In these instances having as many shots as possible would be most beneficial.

So my question to the European shooters or those familiar. In a battue/driven hunt for wild boar, does a repeating firearm with a high(er) magazine capacity always make more sense than a double rifle?


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EDELWEISS
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Re: Driven hunting for Wild Boar (action type) [Re: Kappa]
      #252605 - 25/08/14 03:37 AM

I cant speak to European Drive hunts; but on the one drive hunt Ive been on in the US (a game preserve), firepower, as in magazine capacity wasn't needed BUT quick kills, as in appropriate calibers was a HUGE issue.

I was appalled to see a couple of guys using .44cal Cap & Ball revolvers. On the flip side the rest of us, who were using calibers suitable for Whitetail and larger had quick kills.

If youre concerned about making multiple kills, Id practice making good shots on moving targets, and I suppose reloading without fumbling. I tend to use SxS's whenever possible, so I got used to carrying a reload between the fingers of my off hand. If you use a bolt gun, take some measure of HOW you carry your spare ammo-Is it accessible?--Is it easy to grab and load??---Do you have enough???

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
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Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Driven hunting for Wild Boar (action type) [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #252608 - 25/08/14 05:44 AM

After some experience (50 years) hunting in Germany my two Pfennige worth:
That Sauer video was taken under very unusual conditions, most likely in a game park where pigs are fed all year round. The hunter’s stand is also unusual, near ideal, seldom found in most hunting here. It does NOT show usual German driven boar hunting conditions! It is only meant to advertise the qualities? of a new Sauer bolt action to impress inexperienced newbies.
Usually firepower is unimportant, it is the first shot that really counts. Much more important is some training, shooting at running boar targets with your hunting rifle offhand or a visit to a shooting cinema. In most such hunting here you are quite lucky to get a second shot as a pack of boar crosses a narrow, about 10m wide gap in the woods. So a four shot capacity of your repeater is ample. Favorite rifles for such hunting (by hunters who can afford them) are double rifles and double rifle drillings (a double rifle with an additional shot barrel, a fox or hare may appear any time). An usual “poor man’s” substitute is a common drilling loaded with a Brenneke slug in the left shot barrel. This too gives the opportunity of a fast right(really under)-left at the short ranges usually involved. But you may also use a bolt-, lever- or pump action, provided the rifle fits you like a glove. Action most often is very fast, giving you less than five seconds after noticing the game for raising your gun, take the safety off, aim and fire. Autoloaders are used by some also, but legally limited to a three shot capacity here in Germany. As most autoloaders are rather slow to reload after 3 shots, so I deem them superfluous. Myself, I use either my old hammer double rifle in .500-450#1 BPE, my 7x57R dr drilling or an old Mannlicher-Schoenauer, either 9.5x57 or 8x60S, for such hunts. Even with a double rifle it is rare to get a second aimed shot. From my repeaters I never fired more than three shots in a row. In my experience a running boar covers about five meters at full speed between shots when I use a double, less than 10m if I use a repeater.


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Kappa
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Reged: 23/08/13
Posts: 20
Loc: USA
Re: Driven hunting for Wild Boar (action type) [Re: kuduae]
      #252611 - 25/08/14 09:19 AM

Excellent. Thanks for the insight Edelweiss and Kuduae!

Kuduae, I agree that for snap shooting one of the most important components is a well fitting rifle. I have a straight stock 1886 in 45-70 that balances perfectly and shoulders like a good shotgun.

A double rifle in 8x57 JRS or 9.3x57R sounds about ideal for a dedicated driven boar gun. One day...


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Lutz
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Reged: 06/05/14
Posts: 27
Loc: Germany, Brandenburg
Re: Driven hunting for Wild Boar (action type) [Re: Kappa]
      #252634 - 25/08/14 05:56 PM


After some years of driven hunts in Germany (not 50 but 20) there was only one time I've seen a pack of boars which came across like 'on a pearl necklace'. And also only one situation where a very good shooter used that situation and took four boars with five shots in a few seconds. He used the Sauer 202...and was the german master in that shooting discipline.
Most german hunters use bolt action rifles of different types. From Mauser 98 (me...) to the modern Sauer or Blaser. Double rifles or Drillings are in an absolute minority. Under our conditions I think it is better to have five semi fast shots than two very fast ones.
It is like anywhere: you need 'your' rifle and a good training in fast shooting on moving targets. But additional you have to be familar with the game. In that few seconds (like Kuduae explained) you have to identify the right ones...


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Driven hunting for Wild Boar (action type) [Re: Lutz]
      #252638 - 25/08/14 08:28 PM

Can I add a couple of questions? Sorry Kappa, hopefully not off topic as to action type, which I think has well been answered and certainly there are more guys on here who can also answer your questions and hopefully will.

My two questions are : how important is species, age and sex identification on most driven shoots? Secondly how important is good shot placement - ie not gut shooting the boar, deer etc and instead hitting it well with minimal meat damage?

I have understood it is frowned upon severely if the animal has meat damage, gut shot etc. Something perhaps harder for running driven shots.

And species, sex and age identification, even harder in those 10 metres and few seconds.

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Sville
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Reged: 23/03/10
Posts: 1189
Loc: Sweden
Re: Driven hunting for Wild Boar (action type) [Re: NitroX]
      #252649 - 25/08/14 09:13 PM

As you know I go to some driven hunts in Germany every year and many in Sweden. You know in advance what species that are allowed. Sex identification is important, that could be a problem with Wildboars if you are not familiar with them. Female Wildboars are nearly always not allowed. It´s easier with Red deer and Fallow deer, the males size is rather easy to decide from the antlets. You are always told in advance what size that are allowed. In Germany on these hunts I go to, big ones are never allowed. They hunt them selectively. In Sweden there could be one or more big ones at one hunt. And always the youngsters before the female. So it could be hard to decide when there are many animals at the same time. It´s not popular if you destroy the meat. I have heard on some hunts that if People don´t feel secure, don´t shoot on running animals. A lot of practise is necessery.

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Lutz
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Reged: 06/05/14
Posts: 27
Loc: Germany, Brandenburg
Re: Driven hunting for Wild Boar (action type) [Re: Sville]
      #252658 - 25/08/14 10:08 PM

One aim of our hunts is the reduction of game. To reach that a little bit sustainable, you have to shoot the females.
On our hunts female boars are allowed to shoot. But you have to decide if they are "führend"...leading young boars. Then of course, you are not allowed to shoot. It is the same with every species. With boars that could be a problem in january, when the female are birthing.
One useful rule is to shoot from the smaller end...the younger at first. One bigger boar alone always needs a closer look.
Deers are special...don't shoot -even if they are free to shoot- if you are unsecure about age and trophy.

Good shot placement in german manner is 'gladly seen'. If you damage the shoulder it's ok. It is not ok to hit the haunch. Headshots are not common, very uncertain and difficult. So shoot at the thorax.
But the first and most imoportant rule is the killing shot. Long retrievals are shi...


Edited by Lutz (25/08/14 10:13 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Driven hunting for Wild Boar (action type) [Re: Sville]
      #252659 - 25/08/14 10:08 PM

Staffan

For Kappa's question, which is your usual rifle on the German drives? Your 9.3 DR or the Blaser?

For anyone,

With the boar herd's in Germany, France and elsewhere ever increasing and even getting to problem population numbers what is being with the adult females/sows? Surely they are culled as well?

(Lutz posted at the same time and comments on the above)

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (25/08/14 10:11 PM)


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Lutz
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Reged: 06/05/14
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Loc: Germany, Brandenburg
Re: Driven hunting for Wild Boar (action type) [Re: NitroX]
      #252660 - 25/08/14 10:21 PM

Now 9.3x62, before 8x57.
Sows can be shot under the terms, but the focus is on young game < 2.
There are books written about...the right way.


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Lutz
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Reged: 06/05/14
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Loc: Germany, Brandenburg
Re: Driven hunting for Wild Boar (action type) [Re: Lutz]
      #252663 - 25/08/14 10:35 PM

some impressions:

http://youtu.be/jJeKTbW2oz0

http://youtu.be/jldu2F-34nM


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Kappa
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Reged: 23/08/13
Posts: 20
Loc: USA
Re: Driven hunting for Wild Boar (action type) [Re: Lutz]
      #252666 - 26/08/14 12:29 AM

Thanks a lot guy and thanks NitroX for presenting those additional questions--very interesting.

Lutz, have you noticed any real-world difference between the 8 and the 9.3 on game?

Also, that's some great shooting in that video!


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Sville
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Reged: 23/03/10
Posts: 1189
Loc: Sweden
Re: Driven hunting for Wild Boar (action type) [Re: NitroX]
      #252682 - 26/08/14 03:35 AM

Quote:

Staffan

For Kappa's question, which is your usual rifle on the German drives? Your 9.3 DR or the Blaser?

For anyone,

With the boar herd's in Germany, France and elsewhere ever increasing and even getting to problem population numbers what is being with the adult females/sows? Surely they are culled as well?

(Lutz posted at the same time and comments on the above)




I use the one I feel comfortable with for the moment, my DR 9,3x74, or the Blaser in which I alternate with .308 or 9,3x62. I have now bought a barrell in .300 WinMag, just for fun. John, I did buy the new Zeiss V8 1,8-14, that will be interesting to try.


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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
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Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Driven hunting for Wild Boar (action type) [Re: Sville]
      #252691 - 26/08/14 06:07 AM

Quote:

have you noticed any real-world difference between the 8 and the 9.3 on game?



With perfect hits through heart and lungs there is hardly a difference from 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer to .416 Rigby, having used both and many more in between. But, less than 50% of the shots at running game are "perfect". See the shot at the little Frischling in Lutz's second video, thought to be a miss at first. Bigger calibers usually leave a more pronounced blood trail and make tracking easier. Of course, if you hit a leg or the snout of a boar only, there is no difference again... Hits in the jaws of wild boar are the most feared by hunters, especially those who do a lot of tracking, as the animals stay mobile until they starve. Somewhere I have photos of such poor critters.


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Lutz
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Reged: 06/05/14
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Loc: Germany, Brandenburg
Re: Driven hunting for Wild Boar (action type) [Re: kuduae]
      #252786 - 27/08/14 04:12 PM

I've shown a pic of a boar shot at the jaw in my thread of Chorin.
He was still alive but not lucky, the wound was closed but fully pus-filled. I got him in may this year.
About the caliber...I agree to Kuduae. Endless caliber discussions... I wanted to have a bolt action rifle, a real one for all. And I was tired of the mediums like 30-06 or 8x57. It should be a new one but with history...so there is only the Mauer 98 and Otto Bock (for a german).
Until today I haven't shot enough game with the 9.3 to give a qualified opinion. I works, but not with all kind of bullets, what a miracle.
Perhaps two examples: biggest boar last year had 98KG, shot at about 70-80m on driven hunt, 8x57 bullet lodged in shoulder.
Last picture of Chorin thread was the first one this year 9.3 and geco plus, shot at moonlight in april, was a centered shot (accidentally), no escape.


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Sville
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Loc: Sweden
Re: Driven hunting for Wild Boar (action type) [Re: Lutz]
      #252792 - 27/08/14 07:17 PM

My experience is that on Boars it´s more the placement then caliber. I have shot 150 kg boar with .300 winmag through the lungs that did go 100 meters and 100 kg boar with .308 that did take frontleg bone and lungs that did go 20 meters.

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JPBojinov
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Reged: 27/07/10
Posts: 17
Loc: Bulgaria
Re: Driven hunting for Wild Boar (action type) [Re: Sville]
      #265324 - 21/05/15 06:35 AM

Hello,

I have about 15 years of experience with the driven hunts.In most places you will rarely be able to let more than 3 shots on game.The big clip isn`t necessary.Through the years I hunted the boar with a o/u shotgun,a combination gun(again o/u 12/76+7x65r),a mauser m98 in 8x57is and a benelli montefeltro semi auto in 12 gauge.I've got some experience with 9.3x62,30-06,308 and 7x64 calibers also.Caliber wise everything from above 6.5mm caliber will do.You would do best if you avoid the magnums ,the shot distances rarely exceed 100-120 meters. Heavy round nose soft points are best as bullet selection goes.
As I'm not the best of shots I mostly try to hit the heart/lung region. A good practice on running game is to always aim for the head,there is a great chance that you would still hit a vital point(neck,vertebrate or the rib cage(lungs,heart region)) if you miss it.

Best regards,
Jordan.

Edited by JPBojinov (21/05/15 06:38 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Driven hunting for Wild Boar (action type) [Re: JPBojinov]
      #265356 - 22/05/15 12:21 AM

Quote:

As I'm not the best of shots I mostly try to hit the heart/lung region. A good practice on running game is to always aim for the head,there is a great chance that you would still hit a vital point(neck,vertebrate or the rib cage(lungs,heart region)) if you miss it.





Good advice.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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