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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder
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Tom_H
.333 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Stoeger elephant gun
      #252747 - 27/08/14 12:06 AM

Saw it on the counter and had to leave with it.

[image]http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/elephant_gun.jpeg[/image]


Saw them for years and recently one in mint condition sold for around $700 on gunsamerica. This one was in "put away in completely degreased condition" so the entier gun had a nice bloom of rust. Price was right, cleaned it up a bit and learned a few things.
The barrel has the requisite proofs


[image]http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/elephant_gun_proof_3.jpeg[/image]



[image]http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/elephant_gun_proof_1.jpeg[/image]



[image]http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/elephant_gun_proof_2.jpeg[/image]

If you look at the last shot, you can see the breech reinforcement which is sweated over the barrel. The breechplug od is around an inch and I'm really not sure how the whole thing is assembled. (Is the reinforcement threaded for the plug and sweated over the barrel or is the barrel threaded (very thin at that point) and the reinforcement put over that?)
Depth of the plug is .5" and the flashhole is drilled at that point.

Lock is supposedly Napoleonic war period and is really poorly filed up but it throws a decent shower of sparks
Bore is good and this thing needs to be fired but loooking for thoughts on doing so.

If it doesn't work out I can always bring it to the Vintage Cup in a few weeks...

Tom



Edited by NitroX (27/08/14 02:01 AM)

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Tom_H
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Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Stoeger elephant gun [Re: Tom_H]
      #252748 - 27/08/14 12:16 AM

Pics not showing?

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Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: Stoeger elephant gun [Re: Tom_H]
      #252759 - 27/08/14 03:56 AM

here it is









nice find, whats the barrel diameter? I presume its a smooth bore ball gun?

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (27/08/14 03:57 AM)

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Tom_H
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Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Stoeger elephant gun [Re: lancaster]
      #252768 - 27/08/14 08:14 AM

Thanks Lancaster. Couldn't figure what I was doing wrong there...

This is not what I expected. Just measured the bore and discovered it was a disappointing .899 bore which equates to a measly 6.3 bore or something like that.

So much for truth in advertising and I guess that the elephants will remain safe.

Thr only part of the gun I didn't clean was the butplate. Someone had sharpied the original price of $41.50 onto it. Classic.

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

Edited by Tom_H (27/08/14 11:09 PM)

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Stoeger elephant gun [Re: Tom_H]
      #252770 - 27/08/14 08:41 AM

Appears to be a shortened military musket, but .90 is not normal - however it is normal for a shortened shoothbore gun for waterfowl. Francis Selous used a (or more) shortened Dutch 4 bore duck/goose gun as his elephant gun for a number of years. He wrote he wished he'd never done that as the recoil developed in him a flinch he could not eliminate.

A 6 1/2 bore would do nicely as well, I'm sure, given the normal ranges in dense bush.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tom_H
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Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Stoeger elephant gun [Re: DarylS]
      #252774 - 27/08/14 11:40 AM

Aparently the guns were made with some leftover parts as mentioned above with the balance made to fit the scaled up barrel. The wall thickness at the muzzle is around .160.
When Belgium still had colonies in Africa, the story is that they sent these there for the natives to use. I have seen that story a number of times including in the Stoeger catalog (the same people who said this was a 4 bore)...

Any new and possibly more factual info would be appreciated.

Still want to shoot it and feeling more confident as it is only a 6.

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Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Stoeger elephant gun [Re: Tom_H]
      #252783 - 27/08/14 03:58 PM

Quote:

Thanks Lancaster. Couldn't figure what I was doing wrong there...



The file type needs to be jpg not the jpeg extension. I changed the address so the photos could be opened. Lancaster moved them to his server account and re-saved them as a jpg. Just for future reference when displaying photos again.

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John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Stoeger elephant gun [Re: DarylS]
      #252785 - 27/08/14 04:02 PM

Quote:

Francis Selous used a (or more) shortened Dutch 4 bore duck/goose gun as his elephant gun for a number of years. ...
A 6 1/2 bore would do nicely as well, I'm sure, given the normal ranges in dense bush.



I think Selous' guns would all have been percussion locks. This one looks earlier from the photo, a flintlock.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Stoeger elephant gun [Re: NitroX]
      #252818 - 28/08/14 02:04 AM

Yes - Selous used cap locks. They, in all likely hood could have been converted flintlock guns, an easy conversion, typical for the mid 1800's.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tom_H
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Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Stoeger elephant gun [Re: DarylS]
      #252824 - 28/08/14 03:37 AM

Back to firing the gun.

I found this site Belgian Proof marks and it included the list of Belgian inspectors. In this case, *s was proofed between 1952 and 1968.

Neat. Modern barrel mixed with 200+ year old parts. Just have to cobble together some components including appropriate flints. The lock eats flints.

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

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lancaster
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Re: Stoeger elephant gun [Re: Tom_H]
      #252864 - 29/08/14 01:36 AM

up to the 1960s when the british rule was ending the natives were only allow to own muzzle loader and the belgians were not to genteel to work for this special market. talked once with an old dealer who was knowing liege from the 1950s and early 1960s and he told storys of warehouses full with muzzleloader parts for making "bimbo guns".

anno hecker in his book "thats africa" talk about this native elephant hunting in the 1950s in Tanzania. iirc, the common method was to fire at the elephant at close range then throw the muzzle loader away, run and wait the elephant dying. everyone had to watch careful if the weel nuts on the land rover were in place because the natives borrow them as bullets for the muzzle loader. must have work like a forster shotgun slug and being very hard too.



--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (29/08/14 05:05 AM)

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Stoeger elephant gun [Re: lancaster]
      #252889 - 29/08/14 09:04 AM

www.trackofthewolf.com and octobercountry.com (I think that's what it's called) have flints for all sizes in locks.

Most muskets had main springs way stronger than needed. If re-grinding the main spring to lighten it, lightening up the feather (frizzen) spring is also in order to obtain a balance.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Don
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Reged: 01/12/08
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Re: Stoeger elephant gun [Re: DarylS]
      #252898 - 29/08/14 11:48 AM

I think that Dixie Gun Works used to sell this model of muzzleloader in the late 1960 early 1970's. I really wish they would bring back something similar, say a 4, 6 or 8 Gauge for around $1,000 USD. Wonder if we could talk them into it?

Don

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6thtexas
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Reged: 29/04/12
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Re: Stoeger elephant gun [Re: Don]
      #253065 - 02/09/14 09:30 AM

I remember seeing these for sale in the old Stoeger catalogs when I was a kid. I thought they were advertised as a 4 bore but am probably wrong. As a kid, I always wanted one for some reason.

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Tom_H
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Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Stoeger elephant gun [Re: 6thtexas]
      #253067 - 02/09/14 11:16 AM

found this in a 1969 Gun digest.

Still not sure how to resave under jpg over jpeg extention. Thanks for the help on this one.

Tom

[img]http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/elephant_gun_ad.jpeg[/img]

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Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

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Igorrock
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Re: Stoeger elephant gun [Re: Tom_H]
      #253071 - 02/09/14 01:59 PM



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hoosier
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Reged: 11/07/11
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Re: Stoeger elephant gun [Re: Igorrock]
      #253290 - 07/09/14 10:45 PM

I have one from the 60's in a half stock that has been converted to percussion along the way.It is neither fish nor fowl for caliber- it is smooth bored at 7 gauge and just a few thousands tight for a true 7 gauge. The previous owner used it for black powder trap at Batesville, Indiana but I have not fired it myself.The conversion work is rather crude but solid-lock bedded in with steel bed and the bore is in good shape.I may try it with shot myself to see what it does.

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BigMike

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fourbore
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Re: Stoeger elephant gun [Re: hoosier]
      #259772 - 01/02/15 07:32 AM

I have one of these purchased from Dixie Gun Works back so long ago I dont know the year. 1970 give or take a few.

I believe the 22.8 is the bore diameter in mm. That would be ~6.5 bore. I think Dixie called it 6 bore. I see the catalog called in the two posts back calls it a 4. Well, even today that seems par for the course. Everything is a 4 bore. Dixie told it right and you needed to order the right bullet mold from them with the gun. The metal butt plate was a killer and stupid. Made from spare parts. I can believable that. I dont think the lock was real old either. Very poor workmanship and being young I messed up the gun more. I adding some crude sights. Cut the forearm back and converted to percussion. I always though this might make a nice gun if some one with the skills restocked it and clean up the metal work. The stock and butt plate are the worst. I just cut the hammer and added a nipple. I forget the load, but it sure could kick. Put me right back on my ass a couple times.

Small world, --- So what do we do with these now?

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Stoeger elephant gun [Re: fourbore]
      #259775 - 01/02/15 07:44 AM

Years ago, I good friend of mine and a collector of fine doubles, had a 6 bore side by side ball and shot gun. It had 36"(or 38") tubes and a rear sight as well as a front bead or blade - can't remember - about 14 pounds. He sent it back to H&H for refurbishing in the 70's and they reamed the tubes to about 5 1/2 - gun looked brand new when he got it back.

Wil used it for trap shooting for a lark at the local summer turkey shoot, shooting 2ounce of 7 1/2's and 120gr. 2F or so- might have been 130gr., I think.
The gun was so heavy, you could not stop the swing ounce initiated and bust birds it did. Lots of smoke, and very little recoil.
The breeches were massive. H&H noted it was in excellent condition for an 'African Gun'.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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fourbore
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Re: Stoeger elephant gun [Re: DarylS]
      #259802 - 02/02/15 12:56 AM

Seriously there is three of us with these ugly ducks. We need to figure the path of least expense to turn this raw material into a reasonable gun.

The big problem the stock where so much material is removed to inlet the iron hook butt plate. It needs a new stock. probably a lug brazed under the barrel for a screw in place of the band. I did that when I shortened the stock forarm. Sights, polish and brown. Maybe a better ram rod solution.

I am limited in that I dont know how to properly shape and inlet stock.

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