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NitroXAdministrator
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Shooting fawns and immature deer
      #252654 - 25/08/14 09:34 PM

This is a practical question.I may move the thread later to the cuisine and cooking forum.

In Europe it is common to shoot the fawn before the hind or doe (or cow) during the hunt. Then shoot the mother. Part of wildlife management of the herds.

For an alg/elg or moose calf, they are big and lots of venison. Bigger than a lot of deer.

I was wondering about how a European hunter (and butcher) goes about it for say a fallow fawn. Specifically the butchering. How do you go about it? And what do you use the meat for?

Might be obvious? But often not as much meat. It is however likely to be extremely tender and "melt in the mouth" venison. Do you make the usual cuts? Or bone it out? Mince it? Use it for stews and casseroles? Or small very tender steaks and chops?

I am asking this for a practical reason. I need to reduce a herd's size quickly. Normally I only shoot does at about eighteen months old and males at twelve months old, or older. But I need to cull off at least half all the fallow fawns.

A roe deer fawn must be even smaller. Is it like a big hare when it comes to butchering? Interested. Thanks.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39885
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Shooting fawns and immature deer [Re: NitroX]
      #252655 - 25/08/14 09:36 PM

BTW I know in Australia many deer hunters consider it a "sin" to shoot even does and hinds, let alone the fawns. However most Aussie herds are heavily poached, spotlight shot and a lot more. These herds are not "managed" for the wildlife at all, just open slather killing. So females are important for the future breeding in many cases. This is not the case here.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (25/08/14 10:05 PM)


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DarylS
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Re: Shooting fawns and immature deer [Re: NitroX]
      #252664 - 26/08/14 12:15 AM

We have a calf moose season for a week or two in October - used to be cow or calf - now only calves. The regular bull hunt, without a limited-entry big bull draw tag, is for 2 point or spike (1 point) bulls (18 months) only. Since this type of restriction started in 1989, it effectively took the pressure off the bigger breeding bulls, thus the genetics have improved enough that now there are very few 2 points (or spikes) per side bulls left.

Most of the 18 month old bulls now have between 3 to 8 points per side - with small palms. Their bodies are LOT bigger as well, where they used to dress out at 275pounds, now are closer to 400pounds dressed out on the hooks and the odd on close to 500pounds.

Here are the hind quarters of a calf (5 months old) I shot 5 years ago, with my then-new 9.3x57, at 200meters. 270gr. Speer, 2,300fps MV. The impact speed was between 1,800fps and 1,900fps, approx.

Rib picture showing where the bullet entered the cavity after smashing out 2 1/2" of leg bone. Note the long bony structures above the spine- that is the moose's hump. Do not shoot there - he'll usually drop, then get up and run - and not stop. It is not a fatal shot unless there is enough shock to the spinal cord to sever it - that cord is well protected - don't do it. Shoot him in the 'lights'(lungs) to guarantee a kill.



Even though just a calf, he's still a good chunk of meat.



--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Sville
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Re: Shooting fawns and immature deer [Re: DarylS]
      #252684 - 26/08/14 03:49 AM

Quote:

Rib picture showing where the bullet entered the cavity after smashing out 2 1/2" of leg bone. Note the long bony structures above the spine- that is the moose's hump. Do not shoot there - he'll usually drop, then get up and run - and not stop. It is not a fatal shot unless there is enough shock to the spinal cord to sever it - that cord is well protected - don't do it. Shoot him in the 'lights'(lungs) to guarantee a kill.



Even though just a calf, he's still a good chunk of meat.






I did that once, my moosedog was barking at a young Moose bull. I shot it to high, he fell down, the dog jumped up on him. He got up and did run, with the dog on his back. So I couldnīt shoot again. Fortunately when the dog fell off, he followed the Moose and a friend shot the Moose a kilometer away from his stand. I felt rather stupid.....


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Sville
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Re: Shooting fawns and immature deer [Re: Sville]
      #252685 - 26/08/14 03:58 AM

For a fawn or a roedeer if they are small. Its six pieces, 2 thighs, sirloin, 2 pieces in the front, and the rest for forcemeat or stew. Often the two big pieces in the front also will be forcemeat. If they are bigger I also cut up the thighs.

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fuhrmann
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Re: Shooting fawns and immature deer [Re: NitroX]
      #252686 - 26/08/14 04:13 AM

Quote:

This is a practical question.I may move the thread later to the cuisine and cooking forum.

In Europe it is common to shoot the fawn before the hind or doe (or cow) during the hunt. Then shoot the mother. Part of wildlife management of the herds.

For an alg/elg or moose calf, they are big and lots of venison. Bigger than a lot of deer.

I was wondering about how a European hunter (and butcher) goes about it for say a fallow fawn. Specifically the butchering. How do you go about it? And what do you use the meat for?

Might be obvious? But often not as much meat. It is however likely to be extremely tender and "melt in the mouth" venison. Do you make the usual cuts? Or bone it out? Mince it? Use it for stews and casseroles? Or small very tender steaks and chops?

I am asking this for a practical reason. I need to reduce a herd's size quickly. Normally I only shoot does at about eighteen months old and males at twelve months old, or older. But I need to cull off at least half all the fallow fawns.

A roe deer fawn must be even smaller. Is it like a big hare when it comes to butchering? Interested. Thanks.





John,

a mature roe buck may weigh between 17 and 20 kg, gutted ("aufgebrochen").
I've never hunted fallow deer, but I expect a fallow fawn in late autumn / early winter will be more than this.
I do not know your "usual cuts" but you will get very decent and family-sized roast pieces from the saddle and the haunches.
You can also bone these out and get nice (but not too big) steaks, lets say steaklets.
The lesser pieces will go into stew, Gulasch, Wildpfeffer...., and all the remnants can be minced.
Cutting the prime pieces into stew or even mincing would be a crime...

A roe deer fawn in early winter with 10 to 12 kg is quite more than a hare, and you can still get some decent portions. Of course, it's always the same work but less meat in the freezer.
That fawn might also weigh 14 kgs but then you may hear that it is a strong one and should not have been shot.

I hope this helps.
fuhrmann


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gryphon
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Re: Shooting fawns and immature deer [Re: fuhrmann]
      #252699 - 26/08/14 09:28 AM

I have shot quite a few sambar calves and sometimes followed up with taking the hind as well.When the freezer needs filling its all fair GAME!

--------------------
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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Shooting fawns and immature deer [Re: gryphon]
      #252716 - 26/08/14 02:36 PM

fuhrmann,

The younger does I have taken I think weighed out as 17 to 20 kg or there abouts. Without skin, gut, head, or forelegs.

Will be interesting to see what some of the weights work out as. I will see if I can record some weights as I go. Will just butcher them up as I go and see what works out.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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HeymSR20
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Re: Shooting fawns and immature deer [Re: NitroX]
      #256248 - 04/11/14 12:49 AM

Can't speak for fallow deer, but have shot and eaten plenty of red and roe calves. They generally are good eating, not as as strong as a mature animal but defiantly still red meat, and not white like milk fed veal. Most calves shot are six months or so old - hind and calf season starts 21 October and most are born May time.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Shooting fawns and immature deer [Re: HeymSR20]
      #383828 - 01/04/24 08:07 PM

BTTT.

I may need to cull some fawns again. I spending too much feeding my small pet herd of fallow deer,

Won't be until June. Need to fatten them all up a bit. Also will be two months bigger.

Probably cull a spiker, maybe a two year old male, a doe and a couple of fawns.

That will still leave me with fourteen "pets".

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Shooting fawns and immature deer [Re: NitroX]
      #383844 - 02/04/24 02:32 AM

I have shot yearling bull moose, ie: born in May and shot in October (5 mo. old) at 175 to 200 pounds. Their upper front leg bones at that age, are 2" in diameter & will stop a 270gr. Speer from a 9.3x57, 2,300fps - impact at 200yards.
Moose are excellent eating at that age, as-are their moms.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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