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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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EDELWEISS
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Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg
A MODERN Stalking Rifle
      #251574 - 05/08/14 03:49 PM

I "know" what the classic definition of a Stalking Rifle is; but I sorta stumbled into an argument about a modernized concept, that would fill a dual role of a hunting and tactical rifle. It all started when I read posts from out of state buddies taking their ARs and AKs into the woods for a hike. THAT is all but impossible here in Maryland. Even just the idea of hiking with a sporting rifle is something Id have to drive for hours to do, and then only for hunting.

While discussing this with a buddy in Pennsylvania (a much free-er state), we decide we would call it Varmint hunting and wander about with rifles on hunting fields AND if the opportunity presented we'd take the shot; BUT its less about hunting and more about "doing as men used to do".

So I was in search of a NEW and suitable rifle (semi autos aren't permitted for hunting in Pa). Along the way I spotted a Remington/AAC Model 7 in 300BlackOut. The gun is super light with a thin 16inch barrel that's threaded for a suppressor. It was sweet BUT I didn't want to get into another caliber, so I settled on a Rem 700 with a 16" heavy barrel in a Hogue stock. The weight difference is noticeable, which is how the STALKING RIFLE conversation started.

Im picturing a Modern Stalking Rifle would be light enough to carry on long hikes (up and down hills), short enough to be pack-able or break down for carry in a rucksack, be in a caliber suitable for mid size game (2 or 4 legged) AND reach out past 100m but not need to be a long range shooter.

Im open to single shot, bolt action and semis, 223 is just one option. The T/C Encores may work here, as would the Model 7, I saw (wish it was in 223). An AR PISTOL might also work in some situations.

I also don't envision needing to shoot beyond 300meters. The concept for me would be both hunting fur and flesh AND evading AND stalking when required. I picture a relatively low power optic (1-6x), with a fast reticle.

THOUGHTS???

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

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Yochanan
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Reged: 26/01/03
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Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #251579 - 05/08/14 08:30 PM

A kiplauf rifle, with Jaeger kipblock locking in 6,5x57r or 7x65r or 7x57r.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: Yochanan]
      #251599 - 06/08/14 02:09 AM

A bock drilling in apprporiate chambering would be great.

I've found a 30-30 single shot pistol is pretty handy.
125gr ballistic tips at 2550 in sub-moa does it with plenty of power.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: tinker]
      #251653 - 07/08/14 01:34 AM

A takedown rifle. But any of these options, would take some time to assemble before being able to be used.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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tinker
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Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: NitroX]
      #251657 - 07/08/14 01:47 AM

Not the pistol.
I've leveled quite a few coyote with it.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Tentman
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Reged: 13/06/10
Posts: 128
Loc: Southland, New Zealand
Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: tinker]
      #251690 - 07/08/14 03:25 PM

Ha - a subject dear to my heart. Down here in New Zealand our hunting on public lands is mostly in the Mountains, and many people hunt by driving to a public hut, and day hunting "up" from there. Here we call backpacking "tramping" and hence an online name I use in several forums is "Armed Tramper", and by that I mean I walk in the mountains with rifle in hand. It (this mindset) leads me well off the "beaten path" so one tends to see places and country few other people venture into. My rifle is carried a lot and shot very little. It must feel like a part of me whether in my hand pushing through the forest, or slung across my back whilst clinging to a crag ( I'm not so good at the crags these days).

While not disagreeing that a kipplauf can be a fine solution, I prefer a bolt action repeater.

To my mind the absolute epitomy of the light stalking rifle is a Mauser Kurz in 250-3000, in any of the Model B pattens. However it can take half a lifetime to either find or afford such a rifle, and recently I've been considering alternatives.

If I was a young fellow I think I'd find a Swedish M96 and build a rifle on it. The 6.5x55 is a perfect cartridge for anything you'd meet in the woods in NZ (or North America, Europe, Australia) where you are not hunting a specifically big animal I.e. bear etc. The small ring intermediate action of the M96 is strong, slim and very smooth. It can be made into a wonderful sporter. I don't have anything against the modern equivalents such as the Remington Model 7 etc. but I like to see folks at least thinking about commissioning a rifle if not "building" it themselves.

--------------------
Southland, New Zealand

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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 5094
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Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: Tentman]
      #251697 - 07/08/14 05:27 PM

When I read the tile the Rem Model 7 is what sprang to mind.

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EDELWEISS
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Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: Rule303]
      #251726 - 07/08/14 11:37 PM

Funny when I posted this topic on a Tactical Forum, I got a lot of guys talking about semi autos because they see more of a threat from 2 legged animals. In MY mind the concept of a Modern Stalking Rifle is one where avoiding contact with threats (2 and 4 legged), is just as important as finding the target that youre looking for-at shootable range and reaching that point in a shootable condition.

Yesterday I played with a T/C Encore Rifle. It seemed like an option that might work for some users in some situations. The Remington / AAC Model 7 with a 16inch threaded barrel in 300Blackout is incredibly lightweight. Im not particularly thrilled with the cartridge for distances beyond 100meters BUT I did like the rifle. If there was a 223 version, it would be sitting in my safe!

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #251730 - 07/08/14 11:55 PM

When I go mountain hunting here and plan to be going a long ways in by foot, I usually take a Lex Webernick custom I had built in 280AI..shoots extremely well, low recoil, very flat and rifle with 4-14 Zeiss on it weighs in at 6 1/4 lbs all in..including sling..

Another look you might take is look at the Kimber Ascent or the new Adirondack..

http://www.kimberamerica.com/rifles/model-84m/adirondack

4lbs 13oz and in two calibers you could use to take anything in N America --2 or 4 legs..

There are those who say a lightweight rifle is hard to keep accurate on longer distances..that can be true but with practice it can be done..I have taken antelope with the above combo out to just shy of 600 yards..for the distances you mention, don't see weight an issue for accuracy unless you are going for eye shots..


Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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AndyB
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Reged: 13/09/12
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Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: Tentman]
      #251746 - 08/08/14 03:13 AM

Quote:

If I was a young fellow I think I'd find a Swedish M96 and build a rifle on it. The 6.5x55 is a perfect cartridge for anything you'd meet in the woods in NZ (or North America, Europe, Australia) where you are not hunting a specifically big animal I.e. bear etc. The small ring intermediate action of the M96 is strong, slim and very smooth. It can be made into a wonderful sporter. I don't have anything against the modern equivalents such as the Remington Model 7 etc. but I like to see folks at least thinking about commissioning a rifle if not "building" it themselves.



I like your way of thinking. It's similar to what I'm currently doing, not that I'm that young anymore.. However I got a Brno SR 98, 6,5x55 and a 60cm LW barrel. Due to being on a student budget at the time I ordered it, it still needs a wooden stock and irons. Also, I might have to find new mounts if the Leu QRs are too tall for irons..

To keep in on topic, I guess 6,5x55 ain't a good choice for short barrels..?

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John303
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Reged: 16/11/06
Posts: 243
Loc: Canada
Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: AndyB]
      #251757 - 08/08/14 09:17 AM

My "I'm in for a bit of walking" rifle is a Brno 22H in 7x57 with a factory scope which I normally
just carry in my pocket / pouch. Any fairly light short barreled, I consider 20" short, rifle would qualify as a stalking rifle. JMHO --- John

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: John303]
      #251762 - 08/08/14 10:43 AM

My 1st model Model 94 XTR top eject in .374 Winchester, at 6 pounds, was my stalking rifle for moose. Worked a treat!




--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tentman
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Reged: 13/06/10
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Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #251771 - 08/08/14 02:14 PM

Hmmmm - nothing wrong with the 6.5x55 in a short barrel, probably just that the M96 service rifles that most people are familiar with are long(ish).

I was really only teasing about the Kurz and M96, what I was getting at is there really isn't any "Modern" stalking rifle that can add anything to that of well over 100 years ago!!

Ain't progress great!!

--------------------
Southland, New Zealand

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m4220
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Reged: 04/02/07
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Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: Tentman]
      #251772 - 08/08/14 03:21 PM

Tentman,
For your viewing pleasure, 1932 Mauser SSB Kurz in 250-3000





My latest stalking rifle purchase, H Scherping falling block in 8x57R



m4220

Edited by m4220 (09/08/14 12:29 AM)

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GG375
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Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 347
Loc: Brisbane
Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: m4220]
      #251781 - 08/08/14 05:44 PM

This is what I would probably grab outa the safe in that situation -


7x65R, 162 Gr Amax, 3-9x42 Kahles.

Cheers.

GG

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Rell
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Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: GG375]
      #251785 - 08/08/14 10:44 PM

Daryl S

I like the way you think.

Mine is pretty similar except it's in 356 Winchester and wears a Lyman peep sight.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.

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DarylS
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Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: Rell]
      #251796 - 09/08/14 01:05 AM

Quote:

Daryl S

I like the way you think.

Mine is pretty similar except it's in 356 Winchester and wears a Lyman peep sight.



They are VERY good & effective rifles - so handy, but also capable to decent range.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Yochanan
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Reged: 26/01/03
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Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: GG375]
      #251847 - 10/08/14 05:35 AM

Quote:

This is what I would probably grab outa the safe in that situation -


7x65R, 162 Gr Amax, 3-9x42 Kahles.

Cheers.

GG



Almost what I had in mind, personally I would prefer a Merkel than Blaser.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: Yochanan]
      #251863 - 10/08/14 09:17 AM

Edelweiss you should really consider a compact high power pistol - and get your hands on one for perspective - if this is something you are seriously pondering.

The 30-30 I noted here is super accurate, and it gives a great deal of energy very far down range.
The caliber choices are basically unlimited.
The hunting handguns are very very compact.
MOA and sub-MOA examples are common.
Cost can be quite low.

With a point blank zero at 215 yards I'm 'piont it and punch it' from muzzle to 250 yards.




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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EDELWEISS
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Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: tinker]
      #251889 - 11/08/14 01:57 AM

I used to own T/C Contenders, and I just came pretty close to buying an Encore; but Im "jonesing" for a rifle now (who knows next week...). I keep thinking about the H&R/AAC and the Mod 7/AAC. I know 300BlackOut is super quiet with a suppressor, but a suppressor adds weight and length, plus 300Blk is a short range cartridge, especially the subsonic fodder.

I even considered buying a Mod 7 in 223 and having trimmed down to the AAC pattern including the threading for a suppressor. I don't like any of the Ruger or Savage options. Im sure they are fine but not for what I want.

I like 223 for my varmint choice; but 6.5x55 has always tempted me for medium game.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

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Rule303
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Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: Rell]
      #251923 - 11/08/14 10:16 AM

Quote:

Daryl S

I like the way you think.

Mine is pretty similar except it's in 356 Winchester and wears a Lyman peep sight.



Exactly the same as mine. Good choice I think.

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EDELWEISS
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Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: Rule303]
      #252039 - 13/08/14 05:51 AM

I looked at a T/C Contender Rifle yesterday in 223 with a 21" barrel. It was very light and I was tempted (again). Im not sure if Id like a 16" barrel better. The 21" barrel felt good. Are there advantages / disadvantages to the Contender VERSUS the Encore?

I also saw a T/C RIFLE (not the Contender--I think maybe its the '83). That was very nice. Im sorry they stopped making it years ago.

Im more and more liking the switch barrel/caliber options of the T/Cs for the "today im hiking for varmints so Im using a 223" and "next week Im wandering in search of whitetail so its 6.5x55 or 308 or 30-06 or or or" Im not a huge fan of the Pistol grip for the rifle barrels--I just wish they bring back the T/C '83(?) RIFLE

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

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DarylS
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Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #252091 - 14/08/14 12:56 AM

Encores will handle higher pressures, I think - a wider, larger action, isn't it?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
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Loc: England
Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: GG375]
      #252185 - 15/08/14 09:03 PM


Quote:

This is what I would probably grab outa the safe in that situation -


7x65R, 162 Gr Amax, 3-9x42 Kahles.

Cheers.

GG


Now that is a fine looking rifle!

Is it a K95? If so, what load did you settle on for that as I assume with a 162gr a-max lad in a strong action like that you can get much better performance than offered by factory loads?

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GG375
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Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 347
Loc: Brisbane
Re: A MODERN Stalking Rifle [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #252244 - 16/08/14 05:50 PM


Thank you JabaliHunter.

Yes it's a K95. The load is one I picked for its good grouping rather than max velocity - 54.5 gns of 2213sc. The avg for 5 shots was 2665 fps.

Not sure what factory loads are??

Cheers.

GG

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