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NitroXAdministrator
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Handgun of the Empire
      #251275 - 30/07/14 01:32 PM



Webley Mk VI .455 revolver and Fairbairn-Sykes commando dagger

The handgun of the Empire, the large frame big bore .455 Webley Mk VI, was adopted in 1915 during the First World War and continued in service until after World War Two. The series originated in 1887 with the Mk I.

The Fairbairn-Sykes dagger, the two edged service knife of the Commandos, the SAS and the Paras in World War Two. The dagger is the centrepiece of the Winged emblem of the SAS.

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eagle27
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #251278 - 30/07/14 04:47 PM

I had and used one of these which had a 4" barrel and fixed front sight, not the pinned version as shown in the photo. A magnificent, strong double action weapon with selective ejection of empty shells from the cylinder.

A breeze to load for and shot most jacketed and cast bullets quite accurately. Mine accounted for one or two red deer, a few goats and more than a few possums, rabbits and hares.

It sure was the handgun of the empire with an enviable history.


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DarylS
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: eagle27]
      #251314 - 31/07/14 02:22 AM

Has anyone see or shot the Fosbery? - semi-auto converting that gun (separate gun actually, longer frame) into a semi-auto single action revolver.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webley-Fosbery_Automatic_Revolver

Webley's are sure fun to shoot - & fastest reload of any of the martial revolvers - when converted for full moon clips.

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TH44
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: DarylS]
      #251333 - 31/07/14 08:43 AM

Daryl - I shot one many years ago when handguns were legal in the UK, interesting, you could "feel" the action working

They fetch high prices these days, as they can be held under Section 7 of the firearms act (Kept secure, no ammo, cannot take them from your home without police authority etc)

Good pics and discussions occasionally on the British Militaria forums

Tony

Edited by TH44 (31/07/14 08:44 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: TH44]
      #251343 - 31/07/14 02:12 PM

The .455 Webley cartridge. I gather it is quite a powerful handgun cartridge, especially at the time? Is this true? What does it compare to?


For some reason, in my ignorant mind, I had always pictured these Webley's as being ineffective and low powered. But perhaps that was the .38 round which gave me that opinion?

Happy to be educated.

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eagle27
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #251353 - 31/07/14 05:48 PM

Quote:

The .455 Webley cartridge. I gather it is quite a powerful handgun cartridge, especially at the time? Is this true? What does it compare to?


For some reason, in my ignorant mind, I had always pictured these Webley's as being ineffective and low powered. But perhaps that was the .38 round which gave me that opinion?

Happy to be educated.




Most often compared with the 1911 in 45 Auto. The Webley had a heavier 265gr bullet at a lower velocity than the 230gr 45 Auto cartridge but some say the heavier conical shaped bullet at lower velocity had the edge on the Auto for close range killing. Apparently many got quite skilled at using the big Webley in double action mode when the chips were down.

There are quite a few stories around of the effectiveness of the 455 Webley in action, Pondoro Taylor recounts shooting a lion with his Webley, through the shoulders dropping it on the spot. A famous Ghurka soldier used his Webley to take out five Germans, and got another two with his khukri knife when he unexpectedly came on their patrol.

It was a heavy revolver but sat in the hand nicely and to me, did not recoil overly much, although I've shot a 6" S&W 44 Magnum and didn't think it was anything special in the recoil department.

The Webley revolver trigger would not win any prizes on the range, it was very heavy but smooth as was the double action. I carried mine in a shoulder holster when out hunting, handgun hunting illegal here but at the time was living in wild South Westland. Not designed as a concealed carry weapon but would be okay in a hip/leg holster as the military used.

Had a lot of fun with my Webley and tried a variety of loads and bullets.

185gr FMJ, 250gr HP and 250gr Cast loads for the 455 Webley



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DarylS
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: eagle27]
      #251375 - 01/08/14 01:25 AM

Rather have a .45 Colt New Service, but the Webly was/is a fun gun to shoot. Number of blokes here have them and shoot them, usually loading in the .45 Auto power range.

Had a New Service Colt some time ago, that originally was a .455, but had been re-chambered to .45 Colt, as many were. I gave or sold it to my brother along with a spare old New Service NWMP holster. I packed my 4" M29 in my NWMP holster while he packed the 5" New Service in his.

260gr. usually under 700fps in a 4"bl. The standard ballistics, IIRC, were around 670fps with 260gr. Conical.

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Marrakai
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: DarylS]
      #251393 - 01/08/14 09:38 AM

Wasn't going to respond to this thread, 'cause I'll be here for hours.... Instead I'll try to be brief.
Suffice to say that a few of us here in Darwin shoot Webley revolvers often at our Collector shoots, and prior to Australia's post-Monash restriction on .45 calibre for pistol club use, I regularly shot the full 90-round Service Pistol match with a Mark VI, occasionally placing! Went through many thousands of WestCast pills, hollow base with the green coating, loaded in Mountain & Sowden brass. Even made my own cannelure tool to improve the crimp for better accuracy. And yes, the trigger required utmost concentration...!
My favourite .455 however is the Mark II, rounded birds-head fits better in my hand and love that over-sized hammer shroud!
Also have S&W Hand Ejector and a couple of Colt New Service in .455 as well as the other Marks, love them all but the Webley "manstoppers" definitely have more historical appeal, probably due to our British Colonial origins.

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eagle27
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: Marrakai]
      #251404 - 01/08/14 04:06 PM

Marrakai what sort of money did you pay for the M&S brass? I made my own brass for my Webley by thinning the rims and shortening easily obtained 45 Colt cases. Didn't take long to make up enough cases and they last forever.
Fiocchi did and likely still does load 455 Webley ammo.


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: eagle27]
      #251416 - 01/08/14 11:05 PM

Hornady occasionally makes a run of .455 Mk II brass.

I have a nice S&W .455 Hand Ejector that remains unmolested. Hornady also makes the correct bullet for your Manstopper rounds.

Here are a couple of photos of my S&W and the ammo I loaded:





I displayed my S&W on this thread: S&W .455 Mk. II Hand Ejector 2nd Model #69234

Curl

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eagle27
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: CptCurl]
      #251436 - 02/08/14 07:22 AM

Damn CptCurl why did you have to go and post that, what a super rig, I'm green with envy.

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Checkman
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: eagle27]
      #251888 - 11/08/14 01:37 AM

One of my favorites. I wanted one for several years and a few years ago I finally acquired one. Now mine is actually an Enfield Mk VI made in the early twenties after Enfield took over making the Mk VI for the military, but it's still a Mk VI. Grand old warhorse.




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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: Checkman]
      #251902 - 11/08/14 04:04 AM

Doesn't Starline make .455 Webley brass?

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eagle27
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: DarylS]
      #251931 - 11/08/14 04:13 PM

I obtained an original Parker Hale 22RF conversion kit for my 455 Webley. The kit was for the 6" barreled Webleys and was composed of an insert barrel using a a knurled sleeve at the muzzle to tighten and center the 22 barrel in the 455 barrel and a complete replacement cylinder holding six 22 rimfire cartridges. The normal firing pin worked on the 22 cartridges. As my Webley was a 4" barrel model I made up an adapter that was used in place of the sleeve to accommodate the 2" of 22 barrel extending from the muzzle. The adapter locked and centered the insert barrel and looked just like a silencer.

The '22 Webley' was just as accurate as the parent cartridge and the Webley functioned the same as the 455.

Sold my 22 conversion to an owner of a 6" Webley, I could cast and shoot the 455 just as cheap as shooting 22 Rimfires and it was more fun with the bigger cartridge. Recall shooting a few bunnies and possums with the 22 Webley before I sold it on but shot many more with the big Webley in 455 guise.


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Marrakai
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: eagle27]
      #251945 - 11/08/14 11:21 PM

eagle27:
Can't recall the cost of the M&S brass, it was a loong time ago but they are still going strong.
Also bought a couple of boxes of Fiocchi loaded rounds at one point (they were expensive!) and used the brass from them for reloading too.
Good tip about working the .45 Colt cases, thanks for that. R.P. cases for that round are cheap locally and always available.
And I too also have a .22 trainer insert for the Mk.VI, interesting that the chambers are bored eccentric in the cylinder to allow the firing pin to work on the rimfire cartridges, the bullet has to make a slight "turn" as it exits the chamber and enters the forcing cone! Only the Brits would think of this, but it works!

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9.3x57
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #252395 - 20/08/14 05:58 AM

Quote:

The .455 Webley cartridge. I gather it is quite a powerful handgun cartridge, especially at the time? Is this true? What does it compare to?


For some reason, in my ignorant mind, I had always pictured these Webley's as being ineffective and low powered. But perhaps that was the .38 round which gave me that opinion?

Happy to be educated.




John:

Your "picture" of the cartridge is pretty clear. I hope I do not start a war, here, but the .455 is not very powerful.

I have basically little/no experience with it but its ballistics are nothing to write home about. I do have experience with the standard .45 Colt loadings and many others killing stock in the corrals and with that experience can interpolate pretty well what to expect with the .455. Having said that, compared to some others that were common as opponents guns, like the 8mm Nambu and .32 ACP, the .455 stands tall!

What I can tell you is this; I can see no difference in killing effect/reaction to shot on goats and sheep in the 40-250 pound range at all regardless of whether the round being used is the .45 ACP or 9x19 {or the others listed below except for the magums with JHP's}, so I doubt a 265 @ 600-650 fps is going to demonstrate superiority in any way, shape or form. I have killed dozens and literally tons of animals including cattle with service pistols including the following calibers; .22 LR, 7.62x25, 9mm Mak, 9x19, .38 Special, .357 SIG and .45 ACP, A few with the .45 Colt {w/ 265 grain semi-pointed Lyman 454190 bullet}, .44 Special, .44 Magnum, .357 Magnum and .41 Magnum. Some chickens with the .32 ACP...they were nearly bullet proof!

Anyway, NONE of the common service pistol calibers {including the .45 ACP} generate much for energy or severe traumaitc effect and I CAN say with certainty a slow moving 265 grain bullet is an unimpressive performer compared to a fast-moving 250 or so grain bullet.

Lethal? Of course, but in solid lead or FMJ persuasion {which is what military service calibers are stuck with}, none of them are much.

I had an Aussie FTR'd S&W M&P in .38/200 and for an anemic round, there it is. That one you mentioned, too, and in my opinion whoever authorized that thing for active service should have been court-martialled and married to an ankle chain for the rest of his natural life.

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eagle27
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: 9.3x57]
      #252419 - 20/08/14 05:57 PM

9.3x57

I don't think you need worry about starting a war, I do have quite a bit of experience with the 455 Webley on game but would agree that none of the pistol cartridges are anything to write home about on animals at least. Even the 44 Magnum in a Ruger Carbine was not exactly a king hitter compared to a decent rifle cartridge, even my early rifle in 32 Remington I used as a teenager to take a lot of deer and goats was miles ahead of the 44 Magnum cartridge.

Perhaps in some comparison to your experience in using the various pistol cartridges to kill stock, there is an interesting article in the 4th Edition of COTW called "Handgun Lethality". The article covers the US Army Tests of 1904 where a variety of tests were carried out with several cartridges of the day from the 30 Luger, 9mm Luger, 38 Colt Army, 38 Colt Auto, 45 Colt Auto, 45 Colt Rev,455 Colt and 476 Colt. The tests on cattle and horses was carried out in the Chicago stockyards and involved shooting into the lung and intestinal areas from a range of 3 feet to test for shock on the animals. No shots were fired into vital organs or the brain.

The 45 Colt revolver show great shock and distress and dropped the animals by the 4th or 5th shot while the 455 and 476 dropped them by the third shot. It was noted that those shot by the larger calibres would begin to bleed from the nose and mouth by the 2nd or 3rd shot while this did not happen with the smaller calibres.

From this series of tests the Army chose the 45 Auto which while not as good as the 45 revolver and 455 suited the handgun better that they wanted.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: eagle27]
      #252425 - 20/08/14 06:58 PM

I didn't know this was a discussion comparing handgun cartridges vs rifle cartridges killing capacities. Obvious difference for most rounds. Animals? Man is often a much more softer target than most animals. In any case, a handgun is a handgun and has a handgun's limitations.

Of course if hunting, a handgun has its limitations. But no different from there being limitations to using BP, a bow, a shotgun etc.

This is a discussion on a handgun, used from the late 1800's to the 1950's in countless countries, many wars and during the peak of the British Empire.

Interestingly the .455 Webley probably had some of its origins for the same reasons as the excellent and powerful .45 ACP. As probably everyone knows the .45 ACP was created at least in "popular" history as the US .38 revolver service round had trouble dropping crazed Philippino rebels or warriors. Anyone want to discuss this, it would be a great topic for a NEW thread, on the .45 ACP and its origins. In handgun discussions most Americans discuss the merits of the old .45 ACP compared to say the much weaker 9mm Parabellum. The .455 Webley probably saw use it dropping crazed Zulus (though not in the Zulu wars which were slightly earlier), Matabeles, Somalis, Mau Maus, Malays, and other races of very angry people.

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eagle27
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #252429 - 20/08/14 07:47 PM

Yes agree the discussion is about a handgun but when we start talking about 'powerful', for those who may not have experience with handguns on game and most of us won't have experience on humans, perhaps the 'powerful' is put into perspective if we can compare with rifle cartridges which most of us do know.
The 455 Webley was very effective against the natives in the early colonial days and solders in the early wars but this cartridge and others are not so effective against 'armoured' personnel as the modern soldier is now. The 357 Magnum was found to be effective in the Korean war where early armour was worn whereas the usual battle cartridges of the day were often caught short, even the venerable 45 Auto.

I've been told that the 455 Webley projectile could be stopped by a heavy army great coat worn over battle dress and a leather or webbing belt. I wouldn't like to test that out with any rifle.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: eagle27]
      #252432 - 20/08/14 09:39 PM

Quote:

The article covers the US Army Tests of 1904 where a variety of tests were carried out with several cartridges of the day from the 30 Luger, 9mm Luger, 38 Colt Army, 38 Colt Auto, 45 Colt Auto, 45 Colt Rev,455 Colt and 476 Colt. The tests on cattle and horses was carried out in the Chicago stockyards and involved shooting into the lung and intestinal areas from a range of 3 feet to test for shock on the animals. No shots were fired into vital organs or the brain.

The 45 Colt revolver show great shock and distress and dropped the animals by the 4th or 5th shot while the 455 and 476 dropped them by the third shot. It was noted that those shot by the larger calibres would begin to bleed from the nose and mouth by the 2nd or 3rd shot while this did not happen with the smaller calibres.

From this series of tests the Army chose the 45 Auto which while not as good as the 45 revolver and 455 suited the handgun better that they wanted.




Re-read your earlier post. Interesting how the choosing of the .45 ACP was determined.

Quote:

The 357 Magnum was found to be effective ...




Good point on the more modern .357 Magnum handgun cartridge. Something I will bring up again much later in this discussion.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #252434 - 20/08/14 10:18 PM

Just for fun I went on the net for images of the Webley in action. It is surprising how many times it has been used in movies of all sorts, including great ones. And to re-create its actual use in the historical events.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #252435 - 20/08/14 10:38 PM

The first chosen, perhaps the greatest adventure movie ever made, "Lawrence of Arabia".

Even the DVD cover has the Webley though blurred.





In battle.




The perfect gift.



But didn't do this guy much good against a SMLE .303 at range.




Make sure your Webley is loaded!





Even can be used as a gavel at a public meeting. Maybe an effective one at either end.



An enthusiasts recreation of the look.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #252437 - 20/08/14 10:50 PM







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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #252438 - 20/08/14 11:07 PM

John: You started it...

I'll just make mention of a few things as I have researched these issues quite a bit {spurred on due to my disappointing experience w/ .45 ACP many years ago}.

1} The referred-to Thompson-LaGarde Tests were a farce and should be studied by any student of handgun lethality and history of the .45 ACP cartridge. Their conclusions fly in the face of their own test results!

2} The "Charging Moros" line was also nonsense. I had my doubts and began to wonder about whether that was a myth as tho we read of the .45 being introduced as a result of handgun problems and lack of stopping power we do not read of much after that, meaning, "did the .45 work?". The answer to the latter is..."No". The gunwriter Jack Lott also was curious about this and he did research and wrote up a piece proving it did not and what is more, neither did the 12 ga '97 shotguns or Krags that were issued during the insurrection!

3} Gen Julian Hatcher {US Army Ordnance General of great fame} in his excellent c. 1935 tome on handguns explains the real reason the .38 Colts were dumped. They were mechanical abortions. Junk. Breakdowns occurred and the mechanism was improved {resulting later in the excellent Army Special and Official Police w/ essentially the same actions as the later Python}. The resurrected .45 Colts served reasonably well MECHANICALLY. He gets twisted around in his book, tho, first saying that the stopping power of the various big .45's was superior but then citing cases where there failed.

4} Development of the .45 ACP followed T-LaG's recommendations which the Army swallowed BUT, AS HATCHER NOTES...the end result was not what they really hoped for in that a round nose hard jacketed FMJ is a very poor creator of trauma {I don't like the term "stopper" as with hard service bullets, it really doesn't apply}. Indeed, the gun shooting ammo developed as a result of experience in the Filipino conflict was the special 255 grain loading for the Colt New Service. At 900+ fps it is just about the most powerful service round ever loaded, maybe bested a bit by the huge Montenegro wheelgun round. That semi-pointed bullet penetrates! But again, as for trauma in little folks like people, well...

Remember, all of this applies to round nose lead or hard FMJ bullets.

I was a devoted .45 ACP fan for many years until my experience and research demonstrated flaws in the storyline and terminal reality of the ".45" service rounds. I daily carry a 9mm due to one more reason among others; modern JHP loadings have made all the standard service/carry rounds virtually equal, and...the 9mm holds more of them in the handle.

John, it is a really interesting topic, so I guess starting another thread could be interesting?

Back on topic; the Webley was/is a mechanically sound revolver. It works. THAT is its greatest feature, and when you think about it, that is the greatest feature of many of the sterling performers of yesteryear; during a time when many service weapons were "iffy", the Colt, smith and webley revolvers chambered in .455 were dead nuts reliable, excellent under most conditions and superior to the "competition".

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: 9.3x57]
      #252440 - 20/08/14 11:35 PM

Cool. Some good points. Why not copy them to a discussion on the .45 ACP and the 1911 model pistol.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #252441 - 20/08/14 11:47 PM

The Australian movie "Gallipoli".



As the whistle blows to leave the trenches.

The following looks like scenes from Eqypt or the Sinai before Gallipoli.





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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #252442 - 20/08/14 11:59 PM

Even "Indiana Jones" had a Webley Green, but not a Mk VI

"INDIANA JONES AND THE LAST CRUSADE" and "INDIANA JONES AND THE KINGDOM OF THE CRYSTAL SKULL"







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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #252443 - 21/08/14 12:01 AM

Quote:

Cool. Some good points. Why not copy them to a discussion on the .45 ACP and the 1911 model pistol.




That is a good idea.

Reason it is sort of relevant is that the .455 and .476 were used in the Thompson-LaGarde tests {along with the "Manstopper" loading} and being "big bore" handguns have reputations influenced by that T-LaG. It is interesting that the most lethal infantry forces ever fielded {German Army 1914-1918, 1939-1945} issued the "loser" cartridge in the T-LaGa tests and never once fiddled with replacing it with a supposedly "superior" caliber and for that matter, even more on-topic, a revolver.

There are a gazillion Webleys in the USA and most {?} I reckon have been converted to fire .45 ACP. About 20 years ago quite a number of excellent condition Smiths in .455 came in. Wish I bought one or more. I think the supply of .455 Webleys has about dried up now. Too bad. They are neat old guns.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #252444 - 21/08/14 12:13 AM

Quote:



Webley Mk VI .455 revolver and Fairbairn-Sykes commando dagger

The handgun of the Empire, the large frame big bore .455 Webley Mk VI, was adopted in 1915 during the First World War and continued in service until after World War Two. The series originated in 1887 with the Mk I.

The Fairbairn-Sykes dagger, the two edged service knife of the Commandos, the SAS and the Paras in World War Two. The dagger is the centrepiece of the Winged emblem of the SAS.








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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #252449 - 21/08/14 01:34 AM

I'd love to know what a modern remake of a Webley would cost today....

The little holster wedges were a nice touch. Our swingout wheelguns can be a pain to reholster in a lot of leather.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: 9.3x57]
      #252450 - 21/08/14 02:01 AM







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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #252462 - 21/08/14 05:51 AM

Here ya go, John;

Look close. Caption said "Pakistani shotgun raid":

http://i34.tinypic.com/a2ulqo.jpg

And another Paki;

"Visually inspecting b/c gap";

http://www.armscollectors.com/darra/dhs.jpg

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: 9.3x57]
      #252805 - 27/08/14 10:54 PM

Even the "Blackadder" and co. uses a Webley. The final series was set during WW1.













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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #252829 - 28/08/14 05:29 AM

Yes the Webley has featured in a few movies, the iconic Pink Floyd movie "The Wall" has a sequence where Pink's father cleans his Webley and recharges the cylinder while in his bunker in the trenches. He is later killed in the trenches and then another sequence of Pink as a school boy home alone finding a box of 455 ammo amongst his fathers returned posessions. He takes some of the ammo and along with some school mates put a round on the railway tracks as a train approaches, the exploding 455 round is the cue for another great PF song in the movie.

I had my Webley at the time I saw the movie and also a box of the same ammo so these movie scenes have always stuck in my mind.


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: eagle27]
      #252960 - 31/08/14 12:29 AM

Great photos. I love the looks of the Webley, but apparently only the Fosberry version can be imported to the U.S. because of something called the 'drop test'. The Fosberry is very expensive and I prefer the looks of the standard issue version. The standard version can be found in the U.S. but at about double the prices seen in the UK auctions.

I have imported several S&W .455s, so at least I have the cartridge of the Empire if not the gun. It is a sweet cartridge.


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: 9.3x57]
      #253431 - 11/09/14 05:38 AM

I used to carry the Sig Sauer P220 in 45 ACP. In 2006 my department went to a general issue pistol which was the Glock 21 in 45 ACP. However for those of us with small hands (yep I have small hands) we were given the option of carrying the Glock 19 in 9mm. Now I was a longtime 45 fan, but I just did not like the big old blocky Glock 21 grip.I went with the G19. I carry Federal 124 grain +P HST jacketed hollow points in my little Glock 19. That's an impressive round - for a handgun. What's more important is that I'm actually a better shot with the 9mm. That's a big selling point for me.

Handguns are not ideal, but they beat a rock or my ballpoint pen. If I think I'm going into something that might be hairy (and I have time) I pull out my Remington 870 shotgun (12 Gauge). Other officers on my team have AR-15 rifles.

I'm also a big fan of the .357 Magnum, but the days of American police carrying revolvers are over. Even then I'm a better shot with the 38 Special.


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #253440 - 11/09/14 08:57 AM

Quote:

Even the "Blackadder" and co. uses a Webley. The final series was set during WW1.



A masterpiece!


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: eagle27]
      #253481 - 12/09/14 02:46 PM

Quote:

Yes the Webley has featured in a few movies, the iconic Pink Floyd movie "The Wall" has a sequence where Pink's father cleans his Webley and recharges the cylinder while in his bunker in the trenches. He is later killed in the trenches and then another sequence of Pink as a school boy home alone finding a box of 455 ammo amongst his fathers returned posessions. He takes some of the ammo and along with some school mates put a round on the railway tracks as a train approaches, the exploding 455 round is the cue for another great PF song in the movie.

I had my Webley at the time I saw the movie and also a box of the same ammo so these movie scenes have always stuck in my mind.




I have to have a look for images from that movie too. Thanks.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #253490 - 12/09/14 04:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Yes the Webley has featured in a few movies, the iconic Pink Floyd movie "The Wall" has a sequence where Pink's father cleans his Webley and recharges the cylinder while in his bunker in the trenches. He is later killed in the trenches and then another sequence of Pink as a school boy home alone finding a box of 455 ammo amongst his fathers returned posessions. He takes some of the ammo and along with some school mates put a round on the railway tracks as a train approaches, the exploding 455 round is the cue for another great PF song in the movie.

I had my Webley at the time I saw the movie and also a box of the same ammo so these movie scenes have always stuck in my mind.




I have to have a look for images from that movie too. Thanks.




I actually have the movie on DVD but don't know how to take images from a DVD so it will be good to see them posted for posterity.

The old Webley featured and was used in the making of many movies, whereas the 1911 45 Colt Auto featured in many but was not actually used in firing scenes as it could not be made to operate with blanks.
Probably the most famous movie scene where the 1911 45 Colt Auto should have featured in action was the movie "Sergeant York" where the actor playing the part of Sgt York single handedly takes out a pile of Germans, uses a Luger because it could be made to fire blanks. The movie was based on actual events and York used a 1911 45 Auto to carry out his heroic deed. The use of a Luger in the movie must have grated somewhat with many veterans?

At least our anti-hero Blackadder used the real thing

Gun Digest 1985 features a very comprehensive article on the Webley revolver and the ammo for it.


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: eagle27]
      #254893 - 09/10/14 07:49 AM



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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #254894 - 09/10/14 07:51 AM




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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #254925 - 09/10/14 07:09 PM




Weapons of the Empire

SMLE No. 1 Mk III, Webley Mk VI revolver, and a very long and nasty looking bayonet!





Standard Mk VII .303 cartridge.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #255035 - 12/10/14 04:27 AM



SMLE No. 4 Mk I and a Webley.


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #255036 - 12/10/14 04:31 AM




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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #255109 - 13/10/14 11:49 PM

For the Scots!




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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #255135 - 14/10/14 10:51 AM

Great photos. Very pretty!

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: Checkman]
      #255171 - 14/10/14 08:24 PM

Quote:

Great photos. Very pretty!




Thanks.



Webley Mk V revolver with a Sam Browne belt and holster and an officers sword.

Very pukka.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #255221 - 15/10/14 11:27 PM

John,

Are you allowed to own one of these in Oz?

Curl

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: CptCurl]
      #255277 - 16/10/14 07:07 PM

Very nice 4" barreled Mark V. Mine was the 4" barreled Mark VI with the same grip shown on the longer barreled MK VI's. Regrettably I never took any photos at the time of it in action.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: CptCurl]
      #255283 - 16/10/14 10:55 PM

Quote:

John,

Are you allowed to own one of these in Oz?

Curl




Yes, if one can use it for target shooting. I assume the calibre at .455 is OK??? But some bigger bore calibres I thought were banned or restricted??? Will have to have a look at the regs.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #255284 - 16/10/14 11:02 PM

I think Marrakai or another Territorian posted he used to have one, or still does???

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #255300 - 17/10/14 12:51 AM



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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #255301 - 17/10/14 12:53 AM



A rare Webley Mk VI .22 RF chambered revolver, factory made on a .455 frame.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #255317 - 17/10/14 03:09 AM

I had an old "civilian" Mk III in 32 in India. Beautifully machined - it must have taken hours and hours more to build one than to build one of the solid frame revolvers that Colt and S&W made. I am not sure that it was an entirely worthwhile effort, though. The Webleys had a reputation for losing accuracy over time. I didn't have to worry about that as I sold mine, but I can see where the Webleys have historical value and are not made anymore except by the Indians. India makes the design with a Titanium alloy these days:

Article Link courtesy the Times of India.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #255395 - 17/10/14 10:18 PM

Interesting Mehul. Thanks for sharing the information.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #255397 - 17/10/14 11:03 PM






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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #255815 - 27/10/14 10:34 PM

Gentlemen,

What do you think of the Webley look to a revolver?

I think it is a little archaic. But also very fitting accompanied with a double or classicly styled rifle or shotgun.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #256135 - 31/10/14 10:25 PM

It's certainly not graceful.

We in the U.S. are accustomed to looking at the wonderful works of Sam Colt and of Smith & Wesson. I am a huge fan of Smith & Wesson.

I have never had the opportunity to own a Webley but often have wanted a nice Mk VI in its original chamber of .455 Mk II. I have never fired one either.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: CptCurl]
      #256151 - 01/11/14 01:25 AM

Can you imagine 9 x purdey guns .600 .500 .375 .303 .300 .5.6x52 .22 .10b .28b. Then compliment the battery with a pair of modern webleys in .357 revolvers for the coup de grace.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: Ahmed577]
      #256160 - 01/11/14 03:26 AM

Archaic design, outclassed by any DA American gun of like size - however, it is perfectly functional and just fine as it is. If set up for full moon clips & .45 Auto cases, a good combat piece as well. Not bad stock, either. I remember one that was done, years ago, for the ACP ctg. and 1/2 moon clips.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: DarylS]
      #256168 - 01/11/14 07:23 AM

I like the looks very much, especially the standard service model. There's a nice shot of a group of Webleys on www.hallowellco.com in the historical gallery. I have never owned or fired one but have several S&W revolvers in .455 and like the cartridge as well.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: Ahmed577]
      #256495 - 10/11/14 08:56 AM

Quote:

Can you imagine 9 x purdey guns .600 .500 .375 .303 .300 .5.6x52 .22 .10b .28b. Then compliment the battery with a pair of modern webleys in .357 revolvers for the coup de grace.




Mate I CAN imagine that.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #257190 - 25/11/14 05:32 PM

Managed to take off some video clips from Pink Floyd's "The Wall" DVD then stills from the clips where a 455 Webley VI featured, first three photos showing the revolver being rod cleaned while in a trench bunker, next three photos when young "Pink" found a box of ammo in his fathers war belongings and next two photos where he hands out ammo to put on the railway tracks to explode as the train passes over.

Bit of a continuity issue with the movie as the ammo in the packet Pink discovered when home alone is the military hard ball whereas supposedly the same packet he has down at the railway tracks seems to have lead projectiles!!










Edited by eagle27 (25/11/14 06:02 PM)


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: eagle27]
      #257276 - 28/11/14 09:16 AM

Cool! Thanks for posting.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #257321 - 29/11/14 12:57 AM

I can make those MkII Manstoppers:





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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: CptCurl]
      #257504 - 04/12/14 02:14 PM

I've kind of wanted a 455 Webley - just because. Stopped at a local gun shop and low and behold
there was one in really decent shape and priced right, I am rather cheap. Anyway I'll be bringing
it home soon. Will post some more details then & maybe a few pics. Next step is to acquire some
ammo., might need a bit of assistance in that endeavor. --- John


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: John303]
      #257525 - 05/12/14 07:34 AM

Did the paper work today so will have it soon. I'm pleased to say the least, it's an all original
MkVI with its original holster. Three small notches on the handle to boot. Is there a way to trace
it back to the original "user" via serial #?, any records laying around? --- John


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: John303]
      #261846 - 07/03/15 05:08 AM

BTTT

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #261871 - 07/03/15 01:52 PM

I have another .455 Mk.II on the way. A S&W Triple Lock. It was a frame intended for the .44 Spl. but diverted to the .455 production, as demonstrated by the serial number. Alas, it never went to war but was sold commercially. I haven't seen it or had it in hand. I'm anxious to see it. Hopefully in the coming week.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: CptCurl]
      #261874 - 07/03/15 04:20 PM

Way to do 303 - well done. If I can help, just ask.
I suspect .45ACP dies will work just fine.

All this reminded me of the 1917 Colt parts I was supposed to send to Dan Pharris - action parts and a .44SPL cylinder.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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greenshoots
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: DarylS]
      #261876 - 07/03/15 06:44 PM

understand the webley is being remade in a airgun version interesting

greenshoots


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: greenshoots]
      #261888 - 08/03/15 01:45 AM

Quote:

understand the webley is being remade in a airgun version interesting

greenshoots




Who is making these? Just interested.

I will put up a couple of marketing graphics for the Anderson Wheeler Mk VII which will be available in .357 Magnum.

I have seen a couple photographs of the actual handgun, but they have not released them for public viewing yet. You may well see photos and information on the AW Mk VII here on NE first, if we are lucky. The handguns will be released in May, I know some have already been ordered here for Australia. (not me unfortunately!)

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eagle27
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: DarylS]
      #261890 - 08/03/15 07:18 AM

Quote:

Way to do 303 - well done. If I can help, just ask.
I suspect .45ACP dies will work just fine.

All this reminded me of the 1917 Colt parts I was supposed to send to Dan Pharris - action parts and a .44SPL cylinder.




45 ACP dies are all I used to load for my Webley .455. They work perfectly. The three die set does everything needed on the .455 case.

My Webley slugged at .452" so it handled any of the commonly available handgun 45cal projectiles giving good accuracy with all. The 200gr Speer "flying ashtray" bullet was a favourite jacketed bullet for me, also shot a lot of cheap Winchester 185gr FMJ "Keith" profiled bullets I came across and my own 250gr cast were great. If you have access to a small lathe it is simple to thin the rims and cut to length 45 Long Colt cases which last a lifetime in the 455 Webley. Unique powder is the one to use with all bullets in the Webley.

BTW the shell holder I used was one for the 303 British which fits the rim diameter of the Webley case but just needs a shim cutting out to fit in the shell holder to take up the 'slack' due to the thin Webley rim.

Edited by eagle27 (08/03/15 07:22 AM)


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greenshoots
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: eagle27]
      #261920 - 08/03/15 06:53 PM


http://www.gunstar.co.uk/webley-webley-s...Air-Guns/747463



looks rather nice


greenshoots


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: greenshoots]
      #261932 - 09/03/15 05:02 AM

I had a Webley service 455 mark 6 prior to the handgun ban in the UK but have to confess the smith and wesson 625.2 with the five inch barrel and full moon clips in .45 ACP was easier to shoot and more accurate due to the lighter trigger pull and clean being stainless steel HOWEVER there was something of Empire and braver men that made me enjoy the Webley much more.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: greenshoots]
      #261938 - 09/03/15 06:06 AM

Quote:


http://www.gunstar.co.uk/webley-webley-s...Air-Guns/747463



looks rather nice


greenshoots





The photo in that link looks like a original, even has some rust spots on the bluing !


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eagle27
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: Sarg]
      #261962 - 09/03/15 04:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:


http://www.gunstar.co.uk/webley-webley-s...Air-Guns/747463



looks rather nice


greenshoots





The photo in that link looks like a original, even has some rust spots on the bluing !





Yes definitely an original .455 cal Webley in that photo. I can't imagine a £199.99 air pistol being made to that standard and it would surely have a ‘new’ finish on it to sell.
I would be interested in buying one if they ever got to be available here in NZ. Don’t need a firearm licence to own an airgun if 18 years old or over and no restrictions in general on owning air pistols.


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: eagle27]
      #261971 - 09/03/15 06:20 PM

How does that air pistol work? Anyone know?



Webley / Webley & Scott battlefield .177 Air pistols For Sale in Dyfed

webley mkv1 service revolver .177
4.4mm bb
built from original blue prints
loads ,cycles,fires and ejects as original.
original 1915 markings
single/double action
full size
full metal
6 inch barrel
6 shot
2.4 lbs

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Edited by NitroX (09/03/15 06:22 PM)


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Sarg
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #261974 - 09/03/15 07:18 PM

I'm not a believer on this one, me thinks it is a hoax ?

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greenshoots
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: Sarg]
      #261977 - 10/03/15 12:18 AM

no gentleman no hoax co2 gas cartidge in handle did post a link to pyramid air with a new one on it not as battlefield found but it did not post my connection seems to be playing up

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: greenshoots]
      #261982 - 10/03/15 02:04 AM


What do you make of this - Anderson Wheeler to produce the Webley Mkv11 in .357mag. Oh how our UK laws depress me, reduced to co2 bb guns and plastic! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

http://www.andersonwheeler.co.uk/revolver/Mark-VII#

Interesting? Does anyone have more info?

Best regards - Karamoja


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: karamoja]
      #261983 - 10/03/15 02:14 AM

Very interesting, but .45 S&W or .45 Schofield would have been a better chambering- imho.

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Daryl


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greenshoots
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: DarylS]
      #261988 - 10/03/15 02:53 AM

have a read of the reviews


http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Webley_MKVI_CO2_BB_Revolver/3560


greenshoots


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: greenshoots]
      #261991 - 10/03/15 03:19 AM

and this site has the both together


http://www.alansairrifles.co.uk/collectors.htm


greenshoots


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: greenshoots]
      #261996 - 10/03/15 05:42 AM

Nuts - that is a major disappointment- I thought they were going to be in .357 Mag. Where did I see that?
BB guns- blaaaaaaaaaaaa!

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Daryl


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: DarylS]
      #261998 - 10/03/15 07:16 AM

Here and yes 45 colt would be better
http://www.andersonwheeler.co.uk/revolver/Mark-VII#
Karamoja

Edited by karamoja (10/03/15 07:18 AM)


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Sarg
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: greenshoots]
      #262000 - 10/03/15 07:47 AM

Ok, thank you, there is a real one then, but some thing is still fishy on that "Battle Field Finish" model, it has not been converted, if it was they BB gun & looked like that I would take two tomorrow !

The real BB one looks Ok if in fact it is made from steel or a modified Webley, but I still have my doubts on that one !

I have a Baikal MP-654K made in Russia from real Baikal IJ-70/Makarov pistols, same idea a little easier as they are still making Makarov's & gas cylinder is in the detachable Hi cap mag, full weight & cost double what a IJ-70 would !


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: Sarg]
      #262026 - 10/03/15 05:00 PM

Not fooled - the battlefield revolver is a real Webley to my eyes, compare the hammers, the real one has the base of the firing pin showing as in all early photos in this post, the air pistol has no pin. The trigger on the battle field revolver is fully forward when in the uncocked position against its stop with no gap visible, the air pistol has a gap. The battle field has burred slots in some of the screws, the air pistol perfect, can't imagine they would go to this extent with individual parts, easy enough though to apply an old patina to the whole gun.

Still the air pistol looks pretty close to the real thing would like to see one in the flesh.


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: DarylS]
      #262029 - 10/03/15 05:58 PM

Quote:

Nuts - that is a major disappointment- I thought they were going to be in .357 Mag. Where did I see that?
BB guns- blaaaaaaaaaaaa!




Daryl,

You are confused.

YES the Anderson Wheeler Mk VII is to be chambered in .357 Magnum.

The BB gun referred to is the, real or not, air handgun in the link, small photo, etc which is also being discussed.

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greenshoots
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #262035 - 10/03/15 08:15 PM

looks like they used an original photo in the above this link below show actual pistol in battlefield finish


http://www.surplusstore.co.uk/air-weapon...tle-finish.html


greenshoots


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: greenshoots]
      #262036 - 10/03/15 08:28 PM

It would be cool to own one of these. Just for fun. Also practising target shooting at home. But I think it would require a full handgun licence here in SA and attendance at a target shooting club (six a year) using it. For owning what is basically a toy.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #262053 - 11/03/15 03:11 AM





Two Anderson Wheeler advertisements (the first image features an older service revolver) for their upcoming Anderson Wheeler Mk VII Revolver in .357 Magnum. Wholly made by Anderson Wheeler in the UK.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: greenshoots]
      #262054 - 11/03/15 03:32 AM

Quote:

looks like they used an original photo in the above this link below show actual pistol in battlefield finish


http://www.surplusstore.co.uk/air-weapon...tle-finish.html


greenshoots




The CO2 powered .177 air pistol is made by Webley in China I believe.











This new Webley revolver is built from the original blueprints so it loads, cycles, fires and ejects just like the original! This has the oringal 1915 markings and has a single and double action trigger. This is a full 1:1 scale replica which is even the same weight as the original! This is fully field strippable and has a 6" barrel with a 6 shot chamber that you load the 6 fake shells into.

This is the 'Battlefield finish' version.

Don't forget to order your Co2 capsules and 177 copper/steel BBs with this product.

http://www.surplusstore.co.uk/air-weapon...tle-finish.html



--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Edited by NitroX (11/03/15 03:44 AM)


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #262055 - 11/03/15 03:43 AM




















Webley Mark VI CO2 revolver
12-gram CO2 cartridge
6-rd BB cylinder (holds 6 realistic-looking cartridge shells)
Full metal
Fixed front and rear sights
Textured grips
Double-/single-action
Manual safety
Field-strippable
Lanyard loop
Can be decocked
Extracts cartridges just like the firearm!
Shells are marked .455 as a tribute to the caliber of the firearm it copies
Manufacturer says the gun goes 388 fps; our tests show it goes up to 427 fps
Includes 6 shells (each shell is loaded with one steel BB; loaded shell is then inserted into the gun's cylinder)


Does not work with any speedloaders or other brands of cartridge shells, even though they may look very similar.

Just when you thought there couldn't be another great firearm replica, along comes this one!

The iconic Webley Mark VI revolver was a mainstay for British troops during WWI. In fact, you've probably seen the firearm in movies such as "Lawrence of Arabia," "Khartoum," Indiana Jones series, "Zulu" and "Zulu Dawn."

Put your CO2 pistol next to the firearm, and you'll be hard-pressed to tell them apart.

Both guns use cartridge shells.
The BB gun's shells are marked .455 -- a reference to the firearm caliber.
Both guns field-strip the same way!
Shells in both guns eject the same way.
The lanyard loop on the BB gun does double duty as the tightening screw to help properly pierce the CO2 cartridge.


Of course, you don't have to own the firearm to enjoy the Webley Mark VI CO2 BB gun. This replica pistol is a joy to shoot because it copies the firearm, which was highly revered by British soldiers who carried it in the Great War.

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Webley_MKVI_CO2_BB_Revolver/3560

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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eagle27
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #262077 - 11/03/15 04:47 PM

I take it the cartridge shells are the barrel in themselves, it does not look to have a .177 rifled barrel inserted through the 6" barrel of the revolver itself where in any case the cylinder gap would negate its worth?
A short cylinder or barrel is all that's required for a gas pistol where a sharp small burst of gas sends the light BB or pellet on its way.
Might have to invest in one of these for old times sake seeing as I no longer own the real thing, damn what was I thinking.

I do have one of those pump up Crosman American Classic air pistols in .177 cal and use slightly heavier lead BBs instead of steel BBs or pellets. This pistol is superbly accurate and hits real hard, easily penetrating steel cans from side to side without pumping to maximum.


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Checkman
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #262540 - 20/03/15 04:10 PM

Quote:





Two Anderson Wheeler advertisements (the first image features an older service revolver) for their upcoming Anderson Wheeler Mk VII Revolver in .357 Magnum. Wholly made by Anderson Wheeler in the UK.




Well I'm very curious to see the Mk VII revolver. Very curious indeed.


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Ahmed577
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: Checkman]
      #262552 - 20/03/15 07:26 PM

Checkman. No more curious than I. Have 2 nearing completion s/ns 31357L & 31357R one for each holster. Madness is a wonderful thing.

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Checkman
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: Ahmed577]
      #263187 - 06/04/15 03:19 PM

Fantastic.Matching Webleys carried in dual holsters. I'm envious. I own one and it's actually one of the Mk VI's made by Enfield in 1925. It's still a Mk VI, but it doesn't say Webley on it. Oh well I searched for many years until I finally found one so I'm happy. Next up is a either a Webley Mk IV in 38/200 or the Enfield No 2. They're actually still pretty common here in the United States.Well the 38/200 Enfields are.

Actually that isn't totally true. I've actually got a 1941 British contract Colt Official Police in 38/200 with five inch barrel lined up for my next purchase. All the correct British proof marks and no importer stamp so it came into the USA before 1968. I hope to have it in my safe by June of this year. Though not a British manufactured revolver it served with the English in WWII so it works.

Edited by Checkman (06/04/15 03:31 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #314102 - 18/03/18 04:15 PM

Quote:




Weapons of the Empire

SMLE No. 1 Mk III, Webley Mk VI revolver, and a very long and nasty looking bayonet!





BTW how long were these bayonets?

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #314103 - 18/03/18 04:31 PM

Quote:

Quote:

John,

Are you allowed to own one of these in Oz?

Curl




Yes, if one can use it for target shooting. I assume the calibre at .455 is OK??? But some bigger bore calibres I thought were banned or restricted??? Will have to have a look at the regs.




Back on this.

I assume one could be acquired for target shooting in .455 for metal silhoutte target shooting.

A vintage .455 probably could also be acquired by a collector but not shot more than once per year, and ammo not owned for it, except for the once per year shoot. Pain in the arse. Assumption but collectors do have them in some states or Territories.

As the modern .357 Mk VII is within the .357/9mm maximum restriction for Aust handguns, a A-W could be owned for other handgun target shooting.



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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: Ahmed577]
      #314104 - 18/03/18 04:34 PM

Quote:

Can you imagine 9 x purdey guns .600 .500 .375 .303 .300 .5.6x52 .22 .10b .28b. Then compliment the battery with a pair of modern webleys in .357 revolvers for the coup de grace.




Ahmed, if you read this. Do you plan to wear both in cowboy fashion, one on each hip? Or singly in a flapped cross drawer holster British Army Officer style?

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #314107 - 18/03/18 06:32 PM

From the A W website. No additional information I can see.

















http://andersonwheeler.co.uk/the-gun-room/revolver/

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #314108 - 18/03/18 06:38 PM




--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Ahmed577
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #314109 - 18/03/18 07:54 PM

British army officer style holsters. Handguns are almost complete and stuart appears to have his act well honed. It will be 11 years this October that the BOSS , PURDEY project started. Boss is complete PURDEY have 2 to go. The 10bore rifle choked gun is a few months from completion leaving the 300h&h sxs rifle to complete. This rifle is a few years overdue. It has been a real challenge to the factory. I can only speak well of PURDEY and BOSS. I should have started the project in my early 40 s not early 50 s. However I guess I should simply be grateful that it has happened at all.

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: Ahmed577]
      #314110 - 18/03/18 08:22 PM

Quote:

British army officer style holsters. Handguns are almost complete and stuart appears to have his act well honed. It will be 11 years this October that the BOSS , PURDEY project started. Boss is complete PURDEY have 2 to go. The 10bore rifle choked gun is a few months from completion leaving the 300h&h sxs rifle to complete. This rifle is a few years overdue. It has been a real challenge to the factory. I can only speak well of PURDEY and BOSS. I should have started the project in my early 40 s not early 50 s. However I guess I should simply be grateful that it has happened at all.




I hope you hire a good photographer and get the entire collection well documented when complete. A great armoury it will be.

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416rigby
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #314119 - 19/03/18 03:54 AM

I've wanted a Webley for as long as I can remember. Maybe I should do something about that.

I was under the impression the A. Wheeler didn't actually make any guns themselves, they just added their name to guns contracted out from other manufacturers. Can anyone educate me on this?
Thanks

--------------------
"Life's too short to hunt with an ugly gun"

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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: 416rigby]
      #314121 - 19/03/18 05:44 AM

That's nice - I like that.
I would like one in .44 S&W Special.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: 416rigby]
      #314140 - 19/03/18 01:49 PM

Quote:

I've wanted a Webley for as long as I can remember. Maybe I should do something about that.

I was under the impression the A. Wheeler didn't actually make any guns themselves, they just added their name to guns contracted out from other manufacturers. Can anyone educate me on this?
Thanks




As for all these "other manufacturers"?

Who the hell else makes a "Webley" to this standard? No one. Who else makes a modern Webley at all? No one. Maybe some sort is made in India.

Per Stuart Anderson Wheeler they are making it themselves. Which is why it is taking four years. And why it is now available in the modern .357 and no other cartridge.

Time to buy a nice new well made one in .357. Or a find a nice vintage one in .455. Myself I would take one of each if I could.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (19/03/18 03:01 PM)


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416rigby
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #314210 - 20/03/18 01:47 PM

Thanks, John. I seem to remember discussion that their double rifle used in a Bond movie was made elsewhere. Maybe I don't remember that correctly.

--------------------
"Life's too short to hunt with an ugly gun"

U.S. Coast Guard, retired


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: 416rigby]
      #314220 - 20/03/18 05:19 PM

The Anderson-Wheeler Gunmaking company has had a few changes in the last year or so. Not only closed its Mayfair shop and moved to Dorset. Other changes as well. And from their website they now list a side by side, under and over, shotguns, as well as the A-W Mk V11 revolver.

A press release was supposed to come out mid-2017 about the changes. Did it come out and I missed it? Or not announced? Don't know.

I know I want Stuart to update me on the new firearms they are making.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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9.3x57
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #314229 - 21/03/18 12:56 AM

Anybody know what the pricing is on this A/W revolver?

Does this outfit really think they are going to build a profitable business on a old-design, modern-made, large-frame, break action .357?

Interesting absolutely, and a fascinating lark, yes, a curiosity, certainly, a freak, sort-of, but a product to make a going concern out of a startup gunmaker? I don't think so.

Especially when potentially large markets like Australia and UK are so restricted. Here I reckon a few folks might bite, but I bet the price is going to be STEEP.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Ahmed577
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: 9.3x57]
      #314232 - 21/03/18 01:46 AM

Have paid a little over 20,ooo pound for a pair. The engraver who handled my battery of 9 purdeys matched the pistols to the purdeys in engraving style. I started buying new guns when I realised that used guns were 20 times dearer (up or down a little or a lot ) than someone paid new for them. One should never debate someone’s reasoning to pay the high price for a best gun. That someone creates the opportunity for the next owner to pay up to 20 times the new price paid when new and be satisfied they have a gun that is affordable to them. We need to focus on being part of a circle that we all love to play a part in.

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9.3x57
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: Ahmed577]
      #314233 - 21/03/18 01:53 AM

Quote:

Have paid a little over 20,ooo pound for a pair. The engraver who handled my battery of 9 purdeys matched the pistols to the purdeys in engraving style. I started buying new guns when I realised that used guns were 20 times dearer (up or down a little or a lot ) than someone paid new for them. One should never debate someone’s reasoning to pay the high price for a best gun. That someone creates the opportunity for the next owner to pay up to 20 times the new price paid when new and be satisfied they have a gun that is affordable to them. We need to focus on being part of a circle that we all love to play a part in.




OK.

I'm trying to get my head wrapped around just what these things are for and what market they would serve. What you just described {10k/per +-} answers the question.

Will be very interesting to see just how many they make overall.

Thanks.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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Pugwash
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: 9.3x57]
      #314238 - 21/03/18 03:18 AM

I think your missing the point.People have these thing's because they can.Anderson Wheeler may not sell many of these,but there are a good few people who will have them because they can afford it,It's available and they can have it engraved and finished to however they want it done.It's the same as buying a London Gun or Rifle new.There are plenty of cheaper product's that will out perform them,but people buy them because they can.I do work for one of the London Gunmakers and I've never been short of work.

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9.3x57
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: Pugwash]
      #314245 - 21/03/18 04:10 AM

Quote:

I think your missing the point.People have these thing's because they can.Anderson Wheeler may not sell many of these,but there are a good few people who will have them because they can afford it,It's available and they can have it engraved and finished to however they want it done.It's the same as buying a London Gun or Rifle new.There are plenty of cheaper product's that will out perform them,but people buy them because they can.I do work for one of the London Gunmakers and I've never been short of work.




I wasn't missing the point at all. I was just trying to find out what the point was.

I have no knowledge of this outfit and was wondering if it was some sort of attempt to compete with Uberti or something like that.

The previous member clarified that.

It would seem that these things will sort of be on-offs and handbuilt, etc. That wasn't totally clear to me before.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: 416rigby]
      #314269 - 21/03/18 12:20 PM

Quote:

Thanks, John. I seem to remember discussion that their double rifle used in a Bond movie was made elsewhere. Maybe I don't remember that correctly.




Stuart said the handgun was being made by them. No one else makes a Webley style revolver. Maybe something in India.

As for other A-W firearms, they appear to be selling several types now. A side by side, under and over, shotguns. No idea how or who is making these. Changes occurrred at the company making it far more resourceful. The additional firearm types appear to be a result of this.

***

Back to the handgun. It has been asked what it is used for? Ha ha. What is any handgun used for? Purchased by owners to shoot. Targets, hunting, self defence. Whatever is legal in the owners jurisdiction. For owners looking for a historic Webley styled revolver in a modern new guise.

I think there will be a fair number made over time. For enthusiasts of the Webley style revolver. Not a huge number per year. The British premium makers don't make a lot of firearms of the super high standard each year. They aren't mass produced stuff. And few times available "off the shelf" unless the maker makes the odd firearm as a showpiece which may not be pre-ordered and custom made.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Levallois
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: NitroX]
      #320325 - 03/10/18 12:13 PM

More handguns of the empire -

Wilkinson Webley in .455 - more refined than the Webley.

[image][/image]

And the other .455 - the auto - the lower pistol Mark I Navy. The upper - Model 1910 - is caliber 38acp and was used in the Great War to some extent as well.

[image][/image]

--------------------
It ain't like it used to be, but it'll do.


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DarylS
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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: Levallois]
      #320353 - 04/10/18 02:40 AM

It would be a very rapid firing gun if chambered for .45 Auto and Auto-rim, using .45ACP cases, RN jacketed and full moon clips.
The design, of course, has a very long trigger pull and long hammer fall, still a really nice revolver - it is not a pistol.
The post above this shows 2 Webley pistols.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Re: Handgun of the Empire [Re: DarylS]
      #342625 - 21/06/20 10:22 PM

Would love to feature the finished handguns.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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