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RobertL
.224 member


Reged: 21/04/11
Posts: 21
Loc: Germany
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: DarylS]
      #251356 - 31/07/14 07:35 PM

Hallo Daryl,
Thank you for your response

I have no doubt in what you are saying about the experience you have with this caliber. There could be many reasons for my tight chamber or your large one.
I just try to bring some light into it - but unfortunately this does not mean I have the full scope.

To understand when the Husqvarna rifles were produced we have a look at the following webside:

http://www.skydevaaben.com/allhvamodels/info.xml

Model 46 produced between 1927 – 1937
Model 146 produced between 1937 – 1941
Modell 46A produced between 1942 - 1945

You are referring to CIP a couple of times. CIP was as you may know, founded in Brussel in July the 15, 1914, just a month before World War I starts. Belgium, France, Italy and Germany had originally sign in.
Belgium ratified it first in May the 15, 1925, followed by France in May the 14, 1926, Germany August the 12, 1927 and Italy in 1929.
If I understand it correctly, at the beginning the meaning of the CIP was just to except the others proof regulation and proof signs.
As John Speed is showing in his excellent book “Original Oberndorf Sporting Rifles” on page 274 and 275 the cartridge (9,3x57) was not listed in the German Arms and Ammunition Manufactors Association agreement on standard dimensions on July the 23, 1926, see Mauser factory chart No. 40138.

The German proof law of July the 7, 1939 ruled also the max cartridge dimensions and from this time we should have quality data but even the “Schiesstechnisches Handbuch fuer Jaeger und Schuetzen” of RWS, printed in 1940 still did not show the 9,3 x 57 as normalized (see page 44) although RWS load it with one load, No 60 at that time.
On July the 1, 1969 the CIP rules where enlarged and include ammunition control (pressure and measurement) as well as method of pressure measuring and also a list of cartridges and calibers with dimensions and other things.

I refer in my former mail that dimensions were available 40 years ago in the Dritte Verordnung zum Waffengesetz 1976, which you could translate as the third act to gun law of 1976.
This gives an overview what the CIP data should have been at the time when the CIP rules where enlarged in 1969 if the cartridges had been listed then.

However the rifles where manufactured long before CIP could have any influence in the dimensions and even today neither Sweden nor Norway belongs to the 14 States who are members of CIP.

Last but not least I would share with you a link to CIP, where the 9,3 x 57 is listed since May 2007 as you can see:
http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/de/tdcc_public?page=4&cartridge_type_id=1

Do you have a Model 46, 146 or 46A? Maybe the time of manufactoring give us some additional answers.
As I said mine is a M146
Robert


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: RobertL]
      #251369 - 01/08/14 12:03 AM

1929 is the date of mfg. of my M46 rifle.

In stating the lack of CIP laws/rules regarding this round, I was repeating what was noted by some Swede rifle collectors on a Swedish Rifle Forum I belonged to some time ago. They noted the huge variation in chamber sizes was due to the lack of standards on this round. That this lack of standards was particular to an 'era' I now understood - thank you - as I understand most M98's chambered in this round have what appear to be normal chambers.

The members of that forum with some experience in loading seem to either use 9.3x57 Privi brass, form shorten and neck turn '06 cases, or simply neck up 8x57's to .375 then down to .366" forming a tiny false shoulder as the do this. That small false shoulder, I felt, was not sufficient to hold the case against the primer blow and some stretch occurs above the web, 3/8" above the rim. Thus, I neck them straight - it takes no longer to do this and the formed case then looks almost identical to a fire formed case.

Those who simply neck up 8x57's to hold a .366" bullet usually find from .004" to .010" primer protrusion with Norma-like loads, which shows a headspace problem of varying magnitude.

On that forum, I/we have not seen any rifles with 'short' chambers which needed 8x58 shoulders pushed back - which is a very simple thing to do.

Incidently, my rifle's bore was noted as being slighlty dark, but shootable by the importer - Tradeexcanada. I cleaned it properly after receiving it and while not in 'new' condition, it is quite excellent, albeit oversize at .370" groove dia., but it does shoot sub - moa with ALL bullet weights from 225gr. to 300gr.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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RobertL
.224 member


Reged: 21/04/11
Posts: 21
Loc: Germany
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: DarylS]
      #251377 - 01/08/14 02:38 AM

Hello Daryl,
You mentioned that your head spacing is 0.019" longer which is 0,4826 mm, or roughly 0,5 mm - that made me thinking. Here is my weak theory. The 8x57 case is 57 mm long, the 9,3x57 mm case is only 56,5 mm long. In the early days the Husqvarna people had no drawings and they just run the reamer 0,5 mm to deep into the barrel for a 57 mm long case.

Anyhow, you could be happy that your rifle likes all bullet weight. As mine only like the heavy once, I have shortend the barrel to 20" for short range work, following wounded animals through the bush.

Robert


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: RobertL]
      #271091 - 29/09/15 01:13 AM

A few years back, my brother needed a 'better' guiding gun than his M94 in .356 Winchester. He'd dropped a number of wounded moose with that lever gun, but was having trouble with the mag stop letting rounds slide past and jam the action. That this only happened with old worn rim brass, did not make him feal any more secure.

I traded him my M46 Husky with 3-9X M3200 Bushnel scope for that Winchester& scope. I then sold the Winchester at the next local gun show - $550.00 iirc. It had a nice little old 2 1/2X ScopeChief on it and 100 rounds of old brass-loaded.

That same M46 is now hunting Moose North East of Town. In checking it's zeros a couple days ago, my bro made a cloverleaf with the Norma 286's then planted snake-eyes 1/2" above those with a pair of 293gr. TUGs. Total group size at 100 meters was 1" centre to centre. Both loads were running 2,200fps.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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rpeck



Reged: 06/12/13
Posts: 435
Loc: Canada
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: DarylS]
      #298936 - 13/04/17 01:27 AM

Here is mine. Husqvarna Model 146 9.3x57 made in 1943

It is clean and all original. Like yours and unlike most of these Husqvarna 9.3s this one is built on an original FN Mauser-98 C-ring action, not an M-96. (Belgian proof marks are below stock line on the receiver.)

And also unlike most of these rifles it has no holes drilled in the side or top of the receiver for scope or receiver sights, and no stock crack behind the tang.

Bore is good, strong rifling with some frosting in the grooves.
Blue is approx. 90% or better. Some fading on top of barrel, floorplate and on bolt knob.

3 tally notches on bottom of stock behind grip cap










Edited by rpeck (13/04/17 01:43 AM)


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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1636
Loc: Finland
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: rpeck]
      #298937 - 13/04/17 01:53 AM

My friend has just exactly similar one but without those checkerings under bolt knob and any "moose-groove" in stock.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: Igorrock]
      #298938 - 13/04/17 02:12 AM

Nice find, rpeck.

Have you measured the groove diameter, yet? I think the 9.3x57's on the 98's had tighter specs than the 94/96's.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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93x64mm
.416 member


Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3975
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: DarylS]
      #298956 - 13/04/17 06:11 AM

Great little hunter that one, will certainly will bring home the bacon & in a good calibre too!
Cheers
96x64mm


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: 93x64mm]
      #298971 - 13/04/17 09:50 AM

That Norma ammo, if standard for Norma, is really slow and no better than a .35 Remington.
It is loaded to 35,000CIP(copper crusher), 285/6 at 2,050fps.

My model 96 made 2,200fps with 293's and 2,175fps with sized down 300's - VERY easily without any pressure signs at all. Cases barely expanded over FL sized size.

The pressure for the Normal stuff is so low, that if the rifle has excessive headspace, the case will not re-seat a protruding primer.

Good brass, though. I used RP 8x57 brass, necked up then down and fireformed - works well.

The 98 actions seem to have better quality control on headspace.



These are some .375" bullets I sized down for my 9.3x57.



--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Iowa_303s
.400 member


Reged: 22/03/13
Posts: 1014
Loc: Iowa, USA
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: DarylS]
      #298975 - 13/04/17 11:41 AM

rpeck, welcome to the 9.3x57 club!
These old Husqvarnas are great rifles. I have no doubt you will will enjoy shooting it and hunting with it.
I find the original ballistics of the 286 grain roundnose bullet work fine for the hunting I do with mine. Recoil is mild and that big bullet hits like a freight train.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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Wanabebwana
.300 member


Reged: 11/01/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Canada
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #299587 - 25/04/17 09:34 AM

Great rifle, incredible value. Actions made by FN and a terrific cartridge close to .35 Whelen when loaded to modern pressures in this strong action.

Here is my 1939 Husqvarna 146.


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #299594 - 25/04/17 11:39 AM

Quote:

Great rifle, incredible value. Actions made by FN and a terrific cartridge close to .35 Whelen when loaded to modern pressures in this strong action.

Here is my 1939 Husqvarna 146.





Nicely finished. We figure the 9.3x57 of chambered in a 98 action with 23.4" bl., should about duplicate 1925 9.3x62 data, that is, a 286gr. at about 2,320fps, considering the m96 version did 2,200fps without breathing hard.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Wanabebwana
.300 member


Reged: 11/01/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Canada
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: DarylS]
      #299603 - 25/04/17 02:51 PM

I would be happy with a 250gr Hornady at 2400fps, equivalent to Remington .35 Whelen ballistics.
Or a 270gr Speer at that speed. A very versatile cartridge with bullets from 232 to 325gr.Has big advantage over .358 Win in that heavy bullets can be seated way out and not protruding into powder space. Ammo may be limited to Norma, that now offers 232gr solids and soft nose only,but brass can be formed from 8x57 cases or .35 Whelen if you have excessive head-space. The growing popularity of the 9.3x62 now chambered by Ruger,Sako,CZ and every European gun maker ensures a wide variety of bullets.

https://www.norma.cc/us/Products/Hunting/93x57/


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Waidmannsheil
.400 member


Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2376
Loc: Melbourne Australia
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #299613 - 25/04/17 06:56 PM

Woodleigh also make 232 grain Protected Point bullets in 9.3.

Waidmannsheil.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #299633 - 26/04/17 03:37 AM

Quote:

I would be happy with a 250gr Hornady at 2400fps, equivalent to Remington .35 Whelen ballistics.
Or a 270gr Speer at that speed. A very versatile cartridge with bullets from 232 to 325gr.Has big advantage over .358 Win in that heavy bullets can be seated way out and not protruding into powder space. Ammo may be limited to Norma, that now offers 232gr solids and soft nose only,but brass can be formed from 8x57 cases or .35 Whelen if you have excessive head-space. The growing popularity of the 9.3x62 now chambered by Ruger,Sako,CZ and every European gun maker ensures a wide variety of bullets.

https://www.norma.cc/us/Products/Hunting/93x57/




The 270 Speer bullet acts like varmint bullet - way too soft in the jacket, even for a 1,800fps impact on a calf moose. Bullet went to pieces.

The Norma bullets, 232gr. Vulcan and Oryx, driven to 2,450fps(9.3x57/M96) with H335, BLC2 or H4895 make good game bullets with nice thick jackets - bonded in the Oryx. They both shot sub inch for me at 100meters.

If you want, I can give you my data,, or type it out here. I also shot a re-sized 225gr. Hornady SP, at 2,550fps - same load as the 232 Norma bullets. Rod H. found these to be remarkable game bullets, deep penetration and nice expansion.

Should be able to get those at tradeexcanada.

8x57RP brass is easy to form.
1st is new 8x57 RP case
2nd is new 8x57 RP case necked up for .366" bullet.
3rd is new 8x57 case necked straight in one pass - no annealing
4th is new 8x57 case necked for proper headspace in my rifle - note height of the shoulder compared to #2 case - easier to see than the shoulder, is the length of the neck - that is .019" difference.

My rifle had .019" headspace on a simply necked up case. This was common on the m96 9.3x57 rifles due to sloppy chambering.



--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: DarylS]
      #299634 - 26/04/17 03:45 AM

lol - I should have back-tracked up this thread before posting the above!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Wanabebwana
.300 member


Reged: 11/01/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Canada
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: DarylS]
      #299638 - 26/04/17 04:05 AM

Thanks Daryl
I have 2 boxes of 285gr Norma from Tradex but these are loaded to low pressures and 2070fps so they don't get full potential out of the cartridge. I had heard about the 270 gr Speer having thin jackets and hoped they had fixed that problem. The 250gr Hornady are supposed to hold up well and that is certainly enough weight for black bear and moose. Woodleigh offers 250gr bullets as well as 232,286 and 320gr plus hydrostatically stabilized 232 and 286gr( monolythic).270gr would be a near ideal weight and .375 bullets can be swaged down if the industry doesn't supply the demand.
The barrel of my 126 is almost exactly 24"(including the .625" threaded shank).
The barrel of my 640 in 9.3x62 is 23.6".
Husqvarna model 146, (1939) original rust blue and stock refinished with tung oil. Cal 9.3x57.
FN Large Ring Mauser 98.






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DarylS
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Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #299654 - 26/04/17 09:22 AM

Nice job on the stock.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Wanabebwana
.300 member


Reged: 11/01/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Canada
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: DarylS]
      #299658 - 26/04/17 11:01 AM

Thanks Daryl. The hardest part was removing 7 decades of oil from the unsealed,untreated inletting. 2 months in an acetone bath. Worth it because the stock was not cracked, not even a hairline at the tang. I live 1hr away from Tradex and for every one of the 8 eight rifles I bought for me and my friends I rejected 5. I look for a sharp shiny bore, and wood with tight inletting that can be refinished without repair or excessive sanding.The checkering has to be 90% or better and the metal with no pitting or discoloration,deep scratches or dings.No bolt modifications or drilled and tapped holes.I have 2 9.3x57s, a 9.3x62 and an 8x57 and I cannot stress what incredible value these guns are.
I will enjoy them in their original condition with maybe some sight and trigger tweaking. If I need a scoped hunting rifle I have several to choose from for ground squirrels to elephants.
I took apart a friend's BRNO 21H last week and my first impression went right out the window when I saw how the stamped steel magazine box was designed and made.This BRNO has a market value of 3 times what I paid for a Husky. The ZG47 however has a much better designed bottom metal, not FN quality but something I can live with.


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #299660 - 26/04/17 11:52 AM

I agree - those Husky's, m94/6's and m98's are a great value. I paid $275.00 for my m94/6 - with a "slightly dark, shootable bore"(their words). After I cleaned it, it was like new with sharp rifling and no throat wear at all nor pitting. It was drilled and tapped for Weaver bases, which I wanted. No cracks.

Everything from resized 225gr.& 235gr..375's, inc. .365/6" bullets from 232gr. up to 293gr. TUGs and including resized 300gr. .375" RN's, shoot into an inch or less individual groups at 100 meters. All bullets, if shot one after another, will be inside 3", easily with the same point of aim.

I call it a m94/6 because the Swedish collectors on another site say they are actually model 94's, not 96's, however tradeex calls them 96's - sure look like 96's to me. For what it matters??

The big plus, was making an easy 3/4" 3-shot groups@ 100 meters with resized 300gr. Hornady RN's at 2,175fps. That is the bullet and load I should have used on that moose, not the 270gr.

2,175fps was the 1912 factory 9.3x62Mauser loading with both soft and solid 286's.

Between my brother and I, we've purchased 2 shotguns, one combination rifle/shotgun and 1 rifle from Anthony.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Wanabebwana
.300 member


Reged: 11/01/13
Posts: 221
Loc: Canada
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: DarylS]
      #299720 - 27/04/17 10:24 AM

My friend picked up a 46 for $300 and a 46A for $200 at the last gun show.The 46A has a Schnabel tip and a grip cap and a different cocking piece. Elegant rifles made of machined steel and walnut in a terrific caliber.It's amazing how well the rust blue holds up even in well used rifles. Again a great value at twice the price.
Anthony and his dad had a large assortment of Merkel S/S shotguns and a few Simsons. Unfortunately the good ones are long gone.This year is the first year they didn't get a shipment of 46s,146s or 640s they do have more ZG47s for sale than I have ever seen.
I have never owned a Mauser 94 but after examining them closely I may pick one up at the next gun show in May.


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Iowa_303s
.400 member


Reged: 22/03/13
Posts: 1014
Loc: Iowa, USA
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: Wanabebwana]
      #299721 - 27/04/17 10:50 AM

I love my Huskies, great rifles for little money.
I currently have a 46A and a 46B. Both are in great shape with excellent bores.
The 46A is untouched, the 46B is missing its rear sight but has a Norma peep sight installed on the rear receiver bridge.
I'm looking for a 146 but so far have not been able to find one in "proper nick".

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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sharps4590
.333 member


Reged: 09/03/16
Posts: 250
Loc: Missouri Ozarks
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #299783 - 28/04/17 09:14 PM

Chalk up another fan of the Husky Mod. 46 in 9.3 X 57. I don't know if Iowa_303 remembers but he was instrumental in my choosing one and sent me the link to the one I eventually purchased from Simpsons, Ltd. For something less than $300 I was amazed at what I got. I like it every bit as much as my Sauer & Sohn 98 in 9 X 57. It hasn't displaced my preference for my 1903 or 1908 Mannlicher'Schoenauer's but it isn't for sale either. Iowa, I'm grateful, thank you!

I should probably go measure things before I post but I was able to make cast bullets work just fine in my rifle. I use an Accurate mold of around 270 grs., gas checked and sized at .372. I don't remember the exact throat dimension but know it was typically tight. I used Lake City 30-06 brass to make my first cases and by thinning the necks was able to achieve enough room for the bullet to comfortably release. What I unfortunately don't remember is the neck thickness when finished. I want to remember it was .010 or a little better. I can't imagine I would have gone any less. Remington -06 brass also worked fine. The powder is IMR-4895. Without looking I don't remember the charge weight but strangely do remember velocity being around 1800 fps. The bullet shot nearly as well as the Prvi Partizan 286 gr. jacketed bullets. For me the real treat is that it shot to the sights. Gratefully my rifle has not been mucked with by someone adding a means of mounting a scope.

--------------------
Jesus said, "I am the way the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father but through me." John14:6


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Iowa_303s
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Reged: 22/03/13
Posts: 1014
Loc: Iowa, USA
Re: My new Husqvarna 146 [Re: sharps4590]
      #299791 - 29/04/17 08:22 AM

sharps, thanks for the kind words.
Yes I do remember.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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