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Hunting >> Hunting in Africa & hunting dangerous game
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Rell
.375 member


Reged: 03/12/04
Posts: 642
Loc: Oyster Bay, NY, USA
How many animals on a Safari?
      #249626 - 27/06/14 10:03 PM

I have a question on decorum, etiquette and ethics.
"On a two week African Safari, how many trophies are to many?"

Plains game and high fences in SA and Namibia seem mostly determined by wallet and maybe availability. Free range is more about time and quota. On my first 6 hunting day RSA trip, budget and desired trophies kept me cool. I wanted a bushbuck and mountain reedbuck and did not get them, ate up a lot of time. Did manage a kudu, Nyala and impala.

The second trip I took my father and my cousin took his son, it was 39 animals in 11 days. The ones that really meant a lot where kudu, bushbuck and warthog.

This last trip all I wanted to do was hunt bushbuck, really spend time getting to understand the animal and how to hunt it. I took a mother of a Nyala and would have taken a mega kudu if offered but I really hunted bushbucks straight for 11 days. The deal with the outfitter was I could keep taking bushbucks as long as they where old and we hunted them off the beaten track. I took a bunch and had the hunt of my life but I think the outfitter was starting to have second thoughts as the skinning shed by an to fill. This was free range, fair chase no high fences anywhere.

So how many animals on a trip is one to much?

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.

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eagle27
.400 member


Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1165
Loc: Rolleston, Christchurch, New Z...
Re: How many animals on a Safari? [Re: Rell]
      #249652 - 28/06/14 11:03 AM

You just have to stop when you run out of ammo

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xausa
.400 member


Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: How many animals on a Safari? [Re: eagle27]
      #249657 - 28/06/14 09:16 PM

On a three week hunting trip in Tanzania in 1972 I shot nothing for the first three days. Then, on the forth day, I shot an elephant in the morning and a leopard in the afternoon. The next day I shot a lion and a greater kudu, and on the third day, three buffalo. By the end of the second week there was little more to be done and we ended the hunt with a total of two elephants, five buffalo, one lion, one leopard, one greater kudu, one sable, numerous smaller game and a deliriously happy hunter. I shudder to think what that outing would cost today.

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Dumprat
.300 member


Reged: 20/02/14
Posts: 205
Loc: Vancouver island bc.
Re: How many animals on a Safari? [Re: xausa]
      #249666 - 29/06/14 03:22 AM

39 animals in 11 days? That sounds more like driving around shooting things not hunting.

How do you manage to stalk three animals in a day? And I assume there was a group of fellows to gut and skin after you were off to something else?

I know nothing Africa but if you are not gutting skinning and getting your hands dirty you are missing half the experience.

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: How many animals on a Safari? [Re: Dumprat]
      #249669 - 29/06/14 04:13 AM

My last trip to Zim in 2008 was, IMHO, MY trip of a lifetime as far as African goes...

Have always been lucky on more hunts than not..this hunt was primarily set up for a lion in Zimbabwe..ended up taking a lion, leopard, elephant, hippo, croc, bushbuck, zebra, eland, hyena, a few impala, and a baboon or two..none of this was high fenced or fenced in any way..all open bush..

At the end of 12 days..said I had enough and we fished for two days in local hot spots and the river ..was a great hunt that I will never forget..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Cazadero
.375 member


Reged: 17/10/11
Posts: 561
Loc: Texas
Re: How many animals on a Safari? [Re: Ripp]
      #250749 - 20/07/14 01:25 PM

This topic is a potential ticking time bomb, but success IMHO shouldn't be measured in how many animals you take.

If you have to ask if you are taking too many animals then you probably are. (You're probably also in South Africa behind a high fence)

I guess It's ultimately a matter of personal opinion.


Ripp did you post a report of your 2008 hunt? We went to [Zimbabwe] Chete in 2008 and Sengwa in 2012.

2008 was my best hunt ever as well. I took one buffalo, same as in 2012.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39889
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: How many animals on a Safari? [Re: Cazadero]
      #250761 - 20/07/14 06:25 PM

I was hunting a safari concession area in Zimbabwe where game was scarce. I was after cape buffalo. For a break the PH suggested we go to a high fenced area (quite large, 10,000 acres I think) and shoot a zebra plus whatever else. I wanted a second zebra, as I had shot one earlier elsewhere but shot it through the neck (it was an unexplainable bad shot) and I wanted one for a shoulder mount.

We went there, I shot a zebra, and drove around, and then went to lunch at the lodge.

Another client, an elderly man, had raved about this area the evening before. How he had had the best day of his life hunting there. Shot this animal, then this one, that one, another one of this, finally that one, about five animals in a day. He was deliriously happy.

After our lunch I had decided I had enough of that fenced area, as the "wildlife" were tame, didn't run away, stood around looking. Even after I had shot the zebra, the others stopped to watch from 200 metres away.

Near the lodge was a big pile of empty hessian sacks that used to contain stock pellets.

The PH to his credit came to inform me he had learned the wildlife, due to a drought, were being fed from the back of bakkies ... so it was up to me, no judgements, whether we hunted there more in the afternoon. I decided to go back to the empty hills and look for that buffalo or whatever else turned up.

Yes shooting too much game probably means they aren't wild, or something else may be going on. For me personally I don't regard it as hunting.

Cull hunts can involve lots of shooting. Hundreds of donkeys, pigs, buffalo, camels, etc (ie in Australia). More mass shooting than hunting. Great practice and testing out of bullets and rifles though. It can get VERY boring VERY quickly, at least for me. As I prefer a challenge and fair chase. Cull hunts in Africa might be interesting, but similar to those in Aust.

I would LOVE and HATE to be able to be involved in an elephant herd cull eg possibly as a group shoot 15 to 40 elephant. I would love the experience, but probably not find it enjoyable. I think it would be disturbing to shoot the young baby and immature elephants as well as the ancient ones, the whole herd. But it would be an experience worth having. JMO.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39889
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: How many animals on a Safari? [Re: NitroX]
      #250762 - 20/07/14 06:35 PM

My first safari, also my honeymmoon 1994 (7 days) - 1 x eland, kudu, impala, duiker, warthog, blue wildebeest, zebra. (7)

Second safari 2002 (14 - 16 days ? total but broken up for unexpected reasons) - South Africa - 1 x impala, Limpopo bushbuck, Zimbabwe - Cape buffalo, waterbuck, 2 x zebra, 1 x impala, 1 x Chobe bushbuck (8)

Third safari 2006 (12 - 14 days ?) - Namibia - 2 x Springbok, 2 x Gemsbok, 1 x hartebeest, 7 x warthog. Zimbabwe - 2 x cow elephant. (14)

Always wanted to do some bird shooting, but never had time to do it.

Numbers aren't the name of the game for me.

And that's it. Realised it is eight years since my last one, and must be the reason I am getting increasingly itchy and grumpy! I really want to go somewhere next year for my 50th!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: How many animals on a Safari? [Re: Cazadero]
      #250820 - 21/07/14 12:38 PM

Quote:

This topic is a potential ticking time bomb, but success IMHO shouldn't be measured in how many animals you take.

If you have to ask if you are taking too many animals then you probably are. (You're probably also in South Africa behind a high fence)

I guess It's ultimately a matter of personal opinion.


Ripp did you post a report of your 2008 hunt? We went to [Zimbabwe] Chete in 2008 and Sengwa in 2012.

2008 was my best hunt ever as well. I took one buffalo, same as in 2012.





I did...the 2008 is in here somewhere...

I hunted Sengwa in 2004..

Thanks

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Claydog
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Reged: 17/08/12
Posts: 937
Loc: Katherine, Northern Territory ...
Re: How many animals on a Safari? [Re: Ripp]
      #250828 - 21/07/14 05:30 PM

I believe Cazadero summed it up very well. I didn't really appreciate the ticking time bomb statement until I began thinking about what to write. I agree totally with the thought that it is ultimately a matter of personal opinion. To me it all about the hunt, not numbers. I went to Zimbabwe to hunt buffalo and wanted a good, hard hunt for an old bull. I was prepared to come home with nothing if that is the way things panned out. It was 7 days into a 10 day hunt before I got a bull and the hunt was all I hoped it would be. After the bull I got a Kudu and Impala which had always symbolised Africa to me, but if i hadn't have taken them it would have been no less of a success for me. I can understand the guys who want to go out an collect as much as possible, that's just not what its about for me. Its a personal thing. I suppose as long as it sits well with you and your own ethics there is no one else you need to be at ease with. I always have thought if you are happy to tell other hunters what you took and how you hunted, with honesty, then you are at least at ease with yourself and what you perceive as the general consensus. Tough question.

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: How many animals on a Safari? [Re: Claydog]
      #250835 - 21/07/14 11:14 PM

Quote:

I believe Cazadero summed it up very well. I didn't really appreciate the ticking time bomb statement until I began thinking about what to write. I agree totally with the thought that it is ultimately a matter of personal opinion. To me it all about the hunt, not numbers. I went to Zimbabwe to hunt buffalo and wanted a good, hard hunt for an old bull. I was prepared to come home with nothing if that is the way things panned out. It was 7 days into a 10 day hunt before I got a bull and the hunt was all I hoped it would be. After the bull I got a Kudu and Impala which had always symbolised Africa to me, but if i hadn't have taken them it would have been no less of a success for me. I can understand the guys who want to go out an collect as much as possible, that's just not what its about for me. Its a personal thing. I suppose as long as it sits well with you and your own ethics there is no one else you need to be at ease with. I always have thought if you are happy to tell other hunters what you took and how you hunted, with honesty, then you are at least at ease with yourself and what you perceive as the general consensus. Tough question.



+1..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Postman
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Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada
Re: How many animals on a Safari? [Re: Ripp]
      #250867 - 22/07/14 12:28 PM

Interesting question:

I don't believe there's a right answer. I have just completed my 1st African hunt, aka 10 days in the Caprivi.... No fences at all. My prime directive? Get a buffalo with a hard boss. It took 5 days, a great deal of hard work, and a ton of good luck, and I got a huge old massive buffalo. After that, I wanted a kudu, zebra, and warthog as incidentals if the opportunity arose. I ended up with a really good warthog, and a nice Impala. The kudu just didn't work out for a really good mature bull, and the zebra offered several chances but no shot opportunities after some blown stalks and a couple of herds with too many foals that we passed on. I had a great opportunity on a heart stopping massive Roan bull and a good Sable, each on license, but each was $9,000.00 US, so I passed.

And my thoughts after the fact? I had a GREAT hunt!!! I would have been less happy if it were shooting fish in a barrel. The Impala came after a 1/2 hour stalk and felt too easy after the heart stopping multi- day tracking of an injured buffalo adventure - my fault for bad shooting initially, but the PH wasn't prepared to quit, and I swore to follow him and the trackers to the ends of the earth to recover the buff come hell or high water . We did get a face off with the buff when he took his final stand and I dispatched him without the drama of a charge, although I'd possibly admit to having to look for fresh underwear afterwards. The pig offered up an interesting stalk, and a 1 hour wait for it to show enough of itself in the long yellow grass so I could get a clean shot.

Did I have a good time??? FANTASTIC!!!! One day when I get back, I hope I can get that Kudu and a Zebra, but to me, it is really more about the experience. I REALLY want to go back and hunt buffalo again and if I do get a chance, I will feel the same way about collecting other animals: nice to have, but I would value a quality hunt far more than a truck load of dead trophies destined for my wall.

On the flip side, I wouldn't begrudge the man who wishes to shoot a great number of animals in a short period of time, but for me, that isn't really all that important.

Edited by Postman (22/07/14 12:34 PM)

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