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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Bowhunting + Bows, Spears & Knives
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NitroXAdministrator
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Damascus blades question?
      #247675 - 22/05/14 12:47 PM

I have a number of Damascus knives.

Now I bought two on the internet which looked good in the photos but when they arrived, I found the "damascus" "folds" or layers can actually be felt, as ridges on the blades. They were quite cheap compared to normal damascus blades purchased here in Australia.

Can I ask does anyone here know why the layers can be felt? As compared to the more normal smooth polished surface on my other quality blades?

Is the damascus on these blades fake? ie only etched on the surface and "coloured"?

If it is real damascus, is there a process for creating this effect. I think I once read about using a chemical or acid on the blades surface which presumably eats away more at the softer steels of a damascus blade creating this effect.

Anyone know?

Or a good knife forum where I can ask?

I am in the market for a new knife or two, and if in the end the damascus is fake, won't really worry me, as one of the knives is quite nice anyway.

BTW I was once in India and asked a guy making and selling "damascus" knives, how he made the blades or steel, and he said the effect was engraved on the surface, "how else do you make a damascus blade?" he asked. I bought two of them anyway as they were very very cheap and had interesting grips or handles, one with an elephant head pommel. The other I forget ...

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Igorrock
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Re: Damascus blades question? [Re: NitroX]
      #247685 - 22/05/14 05:16 PM

When speaking about damascus blades we have to understand that there is many kind of damascus. First there is handmade and factory made. For example swedish company Damassteel makes damascus steel as long round and flat bars. Handmade damascus normaly will make blade by blade. Most handmade blades are solid damascus but occasionally there is carbon steed piece "baked" between two damascus plate as beeing a cutting edge.

As you soon said, damascus pattern comes out with etching. Figures could be quite deep if maker has used both hard and mild steel together. When making blade with "baked edge" they could even use steels which do not harden.

Take some good fotos of yours blade and let us to look, maybe it is possible to determine if they are real damascus or not....

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Sville
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Re: Damascus blades question? [Re: Igorrock]
      #247686 - 22/05/14 05:24 PM

Like Igorrock wrote Damassteel are a very industrial Company, makes very good, maybe the best damascus steel. They donīt make blades but steel for anything you want to make of damascus. Handmade damascus is layer bye layer and something harder inside for the cutting edge. I think itīs real damascus blades you have bought. I see from time to time cheap damascus blades from India and other countrys in Sweden. About the quality I donīt know?

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Igorrock
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Re: Damascus blades question? [Re: Sville]
      #247687 - 22/05/14 06:40 PM

Quote:

Damassteel are a very industrial Company, makes very good, maybe the best damascus steel.

Yes, maybe best steel when talking about mechanical attributes but when you compare the outfit of handmade and factory made damascus, appears handmade figure more irregular, structure layers are often thinner and so overall impression more interesting, IMO much better.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Damascus blades question? [Re: Igorrock]
      #247693 - 22/05/14 07:37 PM

A Damscus Kukri made in Pakistan.



These display the eagle pommel/cap but may not be on the kukri but on a different knife.




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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Igorrock
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Re: Damascus blades question? [Re: NitroX]
      #247697 - 22/05/14 08:13 PM

I have to ask why you buy such souvenir knifes ? Iīm sure you could find good real khukri in very reasonable price.....

But back to business; one way to test if damascus is real or not is grind small area smoot, even polish it and after that just apply some acid (or ferrocloride) to polished area and look if those damascus figures appears back. If not, itīs fake.

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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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DarylS
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Re: Damascus blades question? [Re: Igorrock]
      #247714 - 23/05/14 02:54 AM

As I understand the Damascus process as used in rifle and shotgun barrels (and should be for knives as well), iron and steel is used in layers - hammer forged together. This overlapping and hammer 'welding' of the pre-twisted layers of steel and iron causes the different patterns to occur. Simply welded on strips, not twisted, resulted in plain, or Skelp twist, I think was the name - or perhaps 'Stub' twist English pattern designs. Picked up horse hoof nails from the cobble stone streets in London, were sold to gun barrel makers and were used in the process of barrel making.

More steel layers added to the iron layers increased strength - thus there were 2 layer and 3 layer steel/iron barrels.

After finishing, the black or dark is the iron layer, as the softer metal of the iron takes more of the colour of the finish (bluing or browning or simple oxidation), while the harder steel remains bright or takes on a softer hue of colour. If hard polished or burnished after finishing, the steel layers will be brightened, but the softer iron layer, which took the blue or browning finish more deeply, will remain dark. Burnishing may wear away the softer iron layers - or not - don't know - doubt it.

The outside should be smooth, unless it was as described by the Indian Artisan - phony, due to some sort of acidic etching process.

In my most humble opinion, of course.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Dumprat
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Re: Damascus blades question? [Re: DarylS]
      #247820 - 24/05/14 10:38 AM

Commercial Damascus is made with an elector plated steel bar. Layered then folded.

The ridges you feel may be just the result of the etching process used to make the colors show up. Poor polish and very deep acid bath will do this.

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RSFknives
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Re: Damascus blades question? [Re: Dumprat]
      #247910 - 26/05/14 08:12 PM

feeling the different layer after etching the damascus can vary alot
i maker a fair few knives out of Damasteel, (pmc27 and rwl34)
and i like a rougher look on my blades
and if i etch it really hard i can feel the layering
if i use a different acid and just give it a light etch you just get a visual effekt.

but if the maker has used a mix of mild steel and a knife steel you will get a big variation in the depth of the etching...

here are a couple of pics of a deep etch





and a light etch







/Roger

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