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Ripp
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Loc: Montana, USA
What is the perfect hunting cartridge???
      #247602 - 21/05/14 06:28 AM

http://www.petersenshunting.com/2014/05/...ily+Newsletters

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Don
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: Ripp]
      #247607 - 21/05/14 08:52 AM

Good article, The winners were the 375 H&H Magnum for Africa and the 338 Winchester Magnum for North America. I suspect that old 375 H&H could do double duty in both Africa and North America.

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Igorrock
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: Don]
      #247615 - 21/05/14 11:37 AM

I don´t know why to make difference between .375 H&H and .338 Win Mag for North America, both are for long action. IMO .30-06 or 8x57 IS should be enough for any animal in north, even for grizzly and moose if the gun bearer could property do his work when pulling trigger. Good alternative could be .338-06 i.e. 8,5x63 which is now factory ammo in Europe.

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Ripp
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: Igorrock]
      #247627 - 21/05/14 10:45 PM

Quote:

I don´t know why to make difference between .375 H&H and .338 Win Mag for North America, both are for long action. IMO .30-06 or 8x57 IS should be enough for any animal in north, even for grizzly and moose if the gun bearer could property do his work when pulling trigger. Good alternative could be .338-06 i.e. 8,5x63 which is now factory ammo in Europe.




Agree with the above--the .o6 will handle anything that walks in N America..but as your post also suggests various ideas as alternatives I chuckled to myself thinking this is why we have dozens of different calibers, everyone has various ideas on what does and does not work, or what may be a better fit for that particular hunt...

Thanks

Ripp

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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: Igorrock]
      #247630 - 22/05/14 12:25 AM

Quote:

I don´t know why to make difference between .375 H&H and .338 Win Mag for North America, both are for long action. IMO .30-06 or 8x57 IS should be enough for any animal in north, even for grizzly and moose if the gun bearer could property do his work when pulling trigger. Good alternative could be .338-06 i.e. 8,5x63 which is now factory ammo in Europe.



Igorrock ,I totally agree.
Chip Hailstone of Life below Zero fame ,who I correspond with uses Finnish Mosin Nagant rifles in 7.62x53/7.62x54R (the ballistic equivalent of the 30-06)for most of his families sustenance hunting in Alaska . Chip has literally killed thousands of big game animals without an issue and he mostly uses Czech military ball ammo (I know because I asked him).Brown Bear and Polar Bear rarely need a follow up shot. Of course Chip is a most excellent marksman but again it proves "Magnun Mania" is a psychological buffer for mostly people who cant shoot .Our family has killed hundreds of head of big game in Montana and Afrika and guess what ;no magnums.

Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (22/05/14 12:29 AM)


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Igorrock
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #247633 - 22/05/14 01:06 AM

I have read that magnum calibers have designed, not for giving more power but longer shooting distance. On the other words, if yours shooting distances are more often like 200-250 meters, perhaps little more, are 7mm Rem Mag and .300 RemMag understandable choices. You could shoot heavier bullets with flatter trajectory which makes easier to kill bigger animals from long distance.

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DarylS
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #247634 - 22/05/14 01:15 AM

With the advent of the super premium bullets - for example, North Fork, GMX, TTSX, etc, any good hunter/shot could reliably take ANY game in North America, and quite easily too. One shot would be all that is needed - using a .243 or 6mm Rem. Of course, these 'super' bullets would only be necessary for the big bears - all else being handled with 'lesser' bullets.

What makes life more interesting, is using a variety of rifles and ctgs. - or having specific rifles for each animal we hunt, even though a variety of different cartridges aren't required.

Thus, if many 'of us' could make due with a lowly 'varmint/deer' ctg. for all NA game, most would also make due with a .308, '06 or in the Euro rounds, a 7mm or 8mm Mauser. Anything bigger is simply not needed - but - is fun. That is the reason for the plethora of rifle ctgs. today - something for everyone.

They will work perfectly, if applied appropriately.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: Igorrock]
      #247637 - 22/05/14 01:31 AM

Quote:

I have read that magnum calibers have designed, not for giving more power but longer shooting distance. On the other words, if yours shooting distances are more often like 200-250 meters, perhaps little more, are 7mm Rem Mag and .300 RemMag understandable choices. You could shoot heavier bullets with flatter trajectory which makes easier to kill bigger animals from long distance.


The problem arises when the hunter with his magnum rifle cant shoot it very well .Recently at our rifle range a fellow shooting his 338 magnum from the bench shooting tiny group after tiny group. When he witnessed me zeroing my rifle from the sitting position (I almost never shoot from a benchrest) he asked me why . I replied "well ,you never see US Marines shoot from a bench and they are the best shots in the world why don't you try it" Well this guy was so bad off the bench he couldn't hit a 12"x12" target at 200 yards from any position. He was totally astounded watching me break clay pigeons laying on the berm from the standing position. I have seen this so many times.Nobody shoots from positions anymore ; they come to the range ,plop their fat asses down at a benchrest with double bags and begin to shoot. And while their rifles are most excellent ,they themselves are poor shots .The PH I use when I go hunting in Afrika makes shooters zero their rifles from shooting sticks; he has no benchrest in sight. He told me the average American cant hit an Impala at 100 meters and 1 in 20 can do it from shooting sticks .The magnum guys are by far the worst. My PH friend attributes this to Americans fascination with shooting tiny groups from the bench and neglecting their rifleman skills.

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DarylS
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #247641 - 22/05/14 01:55 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I have read that magnum calibers have designed, not for giving more power but longer shooting distance. On the other words, if yours shooting distances are more often like 200-250 meters, perhaps little more, are 7mm Rem Mag and .300 RemMag understandable choices. You could shoot heavier bullets with flatter trajectory which makes easier to kill bigger animals from long distance.


The problem arises when the hunter with his magnum rifle cant shoot it very well .Recently at our rifle range a fellow shooting his 338 magnum from the bench shooting tiny group after tiny group. When he witnessed me zeroing my rifle from the sitting position (I almost never shoot from a benchrest) he asked me why . I replied "well ,you never see US Marines shoot from a bench and they are the best shots in the world why don't you try it" Well this guy was so bad off the bench he couldn't hit a 12"x12" target at 200 yards from any position. He was totally astounded watching me break clay pigeons laying on the berm from the standing position. I have seen this so many times.Nobody shoots from positions anymore ; they come to the range ,plop their fat asses down at a benchrest with double bags and begin to shoot. And while their rifles are most excellent ,they themselves are poor shots .The PH I use when I go hunting in Afrika makes shooters zero their rifles from shooting sticks; he has no benchrest in sight. He told me the average American cant hit an Impala at 100 meters and 1 in 20 can do it from shooting sticks .The magnum guys are by far the worst. My PH friend attributes this to Americans fascination with shooting tiny groups from the bench and neglecting their rifleman skills.




Exactly!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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headoftheholler
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: DarylS]
      #247645 - 22/05/14 02:14 AM

I prefer on whitetails 6.5x55, 7x57, and 257 Roberts. All 3 seem to outperform their size class.

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Dumprat
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: headoftheholler]
      #247665 - 22/05/14 10:50 AM

I will second what "Deutch" and Daryl have said. As for me I like the .308. But I like my shots close. A hundred yards on deer is easy. White tails at 30' in tight bush are a lot more challenging and argue able more fun. But you best be a sneaky bastard with a lot of patience....

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: Dumprat]
      #247668 - 22/05/14 11:31 AM

The perfect hunting cartridge is in my opinion the cartridge the hunter is most experienced and confident in, and also which has adequate power and effectiveness for the job at hand.

In a modern consumer society people are always encouraged to buy the newest and latest, to "fix" so called "problems". "All effective magnum cartridges need to have a belt." "Any cartridge with a belt may have feeding problems." "The cartridge needs to be fat and have flat sides." "If it doesn't shoot well over 3000 fps it has a curved trajectory." "If it doesn't have the words Ultra, Super, Duper, it must be ineffective." And so many more stories.

And yet the .308, .30-06, .375 H&H and even the .458 Win Mag still kill well. The .458 did have some problems which better powders have fixed. But when it performs to .450 NE standards there is no problems with it.

We sometimes read of what the perfect hunting battery is in magazines. Nowadays it is usually this calibre or that, often duplicating each other. I remember on old magazine article which was a good one, and used different purposes as the reason - eg small meat game rifle, fast shooting brush rifle, alpine or plains flat shooting rifle, big game rifle etc. A much better way of looking at what is needed. Maybe a good idea for a new thread.

Regarding confidence, after my first cow elephant I had a lot of confidence with .450 NE DR. And rightly or wrongly felt it could handle most situations well. Experienced with it on smaller game (ie compared to elephants!) I had LOTS of practice "shooting" elephants in books, TV, videos, calendars, etc. Lining up brain shots from all angles. Whenever I saw an elephant on the calendar, TV documentary I calculated the angle, but tried to not say BANG when in mixed company.

I would guess Rigby will soon push again the .275 Rigby cartridge, 7x57 mm. While it will not send the world on fire being one of the oldest "modern" smokeless cartridges, I think serious hunters will have a re-look at it, if they don't have one already. Certainly the medium game animals of Europe, Africa, North America and even Australia have not become more armour plated.

The .256 / 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer certainly is another cartridge to consider.

How often do we hear about people using a .270 Winchester these days. Even its "replacement" the 7mm Rem Magnum? (Other than JG here on NE ) At one time, if you didn't use these, you were a turkey!

Here on NE we often like the old and unusual, not the fads and most new BS kid on the block.

For medium game, really there is not much to choose from between a .270, 7x57, 7mm Rem Mag, 7x64, .308, .30-06, 8x57 etc and many others in that range. Some pluses or minuses in some of them, but all will kill the same animals with the right bullet and even more so the right bullet placement, which is often forgotten in the marketing hype.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: NitroX]
      #247669 - 22/05/14 11:32 AM

Not perfect but my favourites because of long use and familiarity are my .222, .30-06, .375 H&H and .450 No.2 NE.

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: NitroX]
      #247670 - 22/05/14 11:37 AM



Good to see Jofie (Lamprecht) in the article. I met Jofie at the Heym Challenge in Germany in 2013 and shared many a taxi, meal and conversation. He is a good guy.



Quote:

.375 H&H Magnum
PH: Jofie Lamprecht, Jofie Lamprecht Safaris.

Jofie Lamprecht conducts dangerous game hunts in some of the finest big game country in northern Namibia, a region that produces monster elephant bulls. But Jofie doesn’t think that hunters need to come on safari with a cannon in their hands; he recommends the .375 H&H.

“The biggest problem we have as professional hunters in Africa is poor shooting ability due to clients using rifles that they have not practiced with and/or using a caliber that is too large to try and overcompensate for their poor shooting,” says Lamprecht.

“No hunter would ever admit firstly to be a poor shot and secondly that the recoil of large caliber they are using is ‘too much gun’ for them. For dangerous game and specifically elephant I would choose a .375 H&H in a double. The .375 has fantastic penetration even on the skulls of the biggest elephant bulls. It is using ‘enough gun’ that the hunter can shoot accurately and is the legal minimum for most African countries that you can still export elephant to the U.S. As for the double, it is a fantastic advantage to have the second barrel ready if the first does not have the desired effect.”






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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: NitroX]
      #247677 - 22/05/14 01:17 PM

Quote:

The perfect hunting cartridge is in my opinion the cartridge the hunter is most experienced and confident in, and also which has adequate power and effectiveness for the job at hand.

In a modern consumer society people are always encouraged to buy the newest and latest, to "fix" so called "problems". "All effective magnum cartridges need to have a belt." "Any cartridge with a belt may have feeding problems." "The cartridge needs to be fat and have flat sides." "If it doesn't shoot well over 3000 fps it has a curved trajectory." "If it doesn't have the words Ultra, Super, Duper, it must be ineffective." And so many more stories.

And yet the .308, .30-06, .375 H&H and even the .458 Win Mag still kill well. The .458 did have some problems which better powders have fixed. But when it performs to .450 NE standards there is no problems with it.

We sometimes read of what the perfect hunting battery is in magazines. Nowadays it is usually this calibre or that, often duplicating each other. I remember on old magazine article which was a good one, and used different purposes as the reason - eg small meat game rifle, fast shooting brush rifle, alpine or plains flat shooting rifle, big game rifle etc. A much better way of looking at what is needed. Maybe a good idea for a new thread.

Regarding confidence, after my first cow elephant I had a lot of confidence with .450 NE DR. And rightly or wrongly felt it could handle most situations well. Experienced with it on smaller game (ie compared to elephants!) I had LOTS of practice "shooting" elephants in books, TV, videos, calendars, etc. Lining up brain shots from all angles. Whenever I saw an elephant on the calendar, TV documentary I calculated the angle, but tried to not say BANG when in mixed company.

I would guess Rigby will soon push again the .275 Rigby cartridge, 7x57 mm. While it will not send the world on fire being one of the oldest "modern" smokeless cartridges, I think serious hunters will have a re-look at it, if they don't have one already. Certainly the medium game animals of Europe, Africa, North America and even Australia have not become more armour plated.

The .256 / 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer certainly is another cartridge to consider.

How often do we hear about people using a .270 Winchester these days. Even its "replacement" the 7mm Rem Magnum? (Other than JG here on NE ) At one time, if you didn't use these, you were a turkey!

Here on NE we often like the old and unusual, not the fads and most new BS kid on the block.

For medium game, really there is not much to choose from between a .270, 7x57, 7mm Rem Mag, 7x64, .308, .30-06, 8x57 etc and many others in that range. Some pluses or minuses in some of them, but all will kill the same animals with the right bullet and even more so the right bullet placement, which is often forgotten in the marketing hype.



Well said, and a good point on the .275 Rigby/7x57 round.I have always loved this round and in my ZKK Brno and my .275 Rigby I have used Finn Aagaards favorite load of 49/50 grains 4350 in a 140 Nosler. In both rifles it clocks in at 2,925 fps and I have used this load in 120 degree heat with no issues. My 173 Lapua factory loads are also quite devastating at 2,600 fps.In a modern rifle this moves along quite nicely and because of superior B.C. penetrates like a dream .I remember Finn Aagaards penetration tests and the 7x57 beat even the 416 Rigby .No wonder Bell and Corbett used it extensively


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Sville
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #247701 - 22/05/14 09:20 PM

Why not the 9,3x62, works good on both small and big animals????

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Ripp
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: Sville]
      #247709 - 22/05/14 11:39 PM

Quote:

Why not the 9,3x62, works good on both small and big animals????




Think that would be fine as well as I feel the 375H&H would also be a fine all around cartridge. My first hunt in Zim, I used the .416Rem for everything from duiker to eland..no problems...the little stuff had no more damage than if I had been using a 243..

As to penetration, for years a gun shop in Bozeman (Powder Horn) had a sheet of metal behind their desk shot twice..once with a .220 Swift the other with a 30-06..the swift went all the way through the 06 did not..does that mean I want to go hunt griz with a Swift?? while it can be done and I am sure has, don't think that is the prudent choice..

Favorite calibers?? Don't think I have just one...there are way too many good ones out there both old and new..my observations are that many who travel to Africa, Alaska or wherever are not prepared in many ways..physical conditioning, shooting ability, etc..Think some that hunt dangerous game are trying to prove something to either themselves or someone else but really don’t want to be there..so they but the biggest caliber they can find, it kicks the crap out of them so they don’t practice as much as they should..Others its ego, and they have to have the biggest, perhaps to compensate for something of theirs that is not??

Having said all that, for larger game taken are longer distances, I will still take a mag over a standard caliber given the choice. If that isn't for you fine, but for some it is..I find it interesting how many bombs are thrown by those who pound their chests about not ever having the "NEED" for a magnum cartridge or have ever used one for that matter..I have two things to say to that..first, NEED has nothing to do with it. Many years ago Montana didn’t have a speed limit other than "reasonable and prudent" for current road conditions...I could drive from border to border with a 1974 Ford Pinto or a 1993 Porsche Turbo..did I need the Porsche?? Hell no..was it more fun?? Don’t think I need to answer that one..

Secondly, if you have never used one how do you know. That's like a priest trying to tell you how to have sex..o.k., you got me there, they may have some experience, but in general, they have never so how in the hell can they be an expert on it???

Each to their own, but I enjoy them all..and will continue to do so..as often as time will allow..anywhere from my .470 Nitro to the 17HMR, 300RUM and back to the 303 British..

Have a great day...


Ripp




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Ripp
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: DarylS]
      #247712 - 22/05/14 11:45 PM

Quote:

With the advent of the super premium bullets - for example, North Fork, GMX, TTSX, etc, any good hunter/shot could reliably take ANY game in North America, and quite easily too. One shot would be all that is needed - using a .243 or 6mm Rem. Of course, these 'super' bullets would only be necessary for the big bears - all else being handled with 'lesser' bullets.

What makes life more interesting, is using a variety of rifles and ctgs. - or having specific rifles for each animal we hunt, even though a variety of different cartridges aren't required.

Thus, if many 'of us' could make due with a lowly 'varmint/deer' ctg. for all NA game, most would also make due with a .308, '06 or in the Euro rounds, a 7mm or 8mm Mauser. Anything bigger is simply not needed - but - is fun. That is the reason for the plethora of rifle ctgs. today - something for everyone.

They will work perfectly, if applied appropriately.




Couldn't agree more...well stated...

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Yochanan
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: Ripp]
      #247849 - 25/05/14 04:57 AM

"Perfect" is what the sportsman prefers.

22lr, I have shoot lot of different animals with it in my youth...I will not elaborate further.

270 Win (bagged most of my animals with this cartridge using 150 grain bullets) and 7mm wby mag (I shoot mostly 160 and 175grain bullets in 7mag and am not fanatic squeezing the extra fps, prefers accuracy)

375 h&H or 375 Blaser got mild recoil and excellent for lots of big game. 250 grain for longer ranges and 300 grain for everything else.

I have 416 Rigby on magnum mauser in the making but its mostly beacuse I want one....passion mostly.

If I would persue a careeer as PH I would get a 500 Jeffery built on magnum mauser - stopper.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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awanderingbear
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: Yochanan]
      #247869 - 25/05/14 03:28 PM

Hunting what? Should be a factor. I wouldn't hunt the Big 5 with my .22 Hornet, yet I wouldn't hunt small game with a .458 either. Looking back in time to the 1920-1950's era, northern arctic people relied on the .22 Hornet for their meat gun - mainly due to the lightweight of ammunition, yet they killed all manner of game. Ok, maybe sometimes one didn't come home from the hunt! When the .222 Remington came along, they upgraded to that. Nowadays in northern Alaska a rifle using the .223 or .22-250 is not uncommon, along with more current central fire cartridges being used.

The skill of the 'hunter' needs to be a factor; not the ability to shoot. So many of today's people taking to the woods, mountains or plains are shooters and not hunters. A friend who use to "live in the woods" in Montana used an original Marlin 1894 carbine in .32-20 for his deer and elk rifle - he made meat each season to fill his larder. Sometimes he used his big gun, a Marlin .30-30. He 'hunted' and most shots were not over 35-40 yards into the axis joint - DRT. I later upgraded his rifle to a .257 Roberts, which he has used since moving to Wyoming in 1983, with excellent success...so much so that he'll even take an 80-100 yard shot every now and then!

What is the perfect hunting cartridge? A question without a definitive answer, yet fun to discuss.

Charles Sheldon used for his hunting/collecting rifle a 6.5x53R/.256 Mannlicher chambered rifle. For museums and others he collected quantities of game in north America in vast amounts. It's believed he collected between 70 and 80 grizzlies with that rifle. 'If' memory serves me correctly, when he visited with Townsend Whelen in the mid-1950's, shooting standing/offhand at 200 yards, he was able to put 4 or 6(?) rounds into an 8 inch bullseye. He was a 'hunter' and knew his rifle's capabilities. Just saying...

waidmannshiel,
awanderingbear


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awanderingbear
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Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: awanderingbear]
      #247870 - 25/05/14 03:43 PM

Here's one hunters view...
----------------------------------------------------
The Finest All-'Round Deer Gun
By Kenneth Fuller Lee
The American Rifleman - February 1930


Ever notice how firmly you can stand on a couple of inches of light snow over a heavy crust, with snowshoes strapped to your shoe-pacs?

A good hundred yards away, across the blow-downs and white coated stumps left by the loggers, a big buck threw up his antlered head and started away at a lumbering gallop. Twelve inches of snow and the crust bothered him; and it was another hundred yards to the shelter of the cedars which he sought.

The silver bead of the little 6.5 Mannlicher found his shoulder, and I eased off the trigger. "Wham!" said the smokeless; and the buck, caught with the 160-grain bullet midway of his stride, plunged forward and slid, nose first, into a pile of brush.

A moment later I stooped over him and grasped one of the branching antlers to turn him over. The fast, heavy bullet had broken both front shoulders, the hole emergence being almost the size of a silver dollar.

In the past fifteen years it has been my good fortune to try out most of the common types of American-made hunting rifles in a lot of calibers; and there is no more certain method of starting an argument than to state that such-and-such a rifle is 'the best' for any given purpose.

The little 6.5mm Mannlicher is my own pet tool at present, and this in spite of the fact that for many years as a guide and hunter, I used and swore by a .38-40 carbine; killed lots of game with it, and took plenty of abuse from the wise boys who just knew that it wasn't a suitable gun for use on any kind of medium or large game.

In those days my hunting was confined to dense cover, where it was unusual to get shots at more than 60 to 80 yards, usually snap-shooting through brush, and for that sort of work the little old .38-40 was, and still is, mighty good medicine.

Three years ago I went into the Allagash region of northern Maine, where there is a lot of hardwood, and the country is full of streams and lakes which offer plenty of shots at long range. Knowing that the .38-40 was outclassed in this type of hunting, the little 6.5mm came into my possession and immediately I fell in love with it.

Equipped with a full-length stock with a nice cheek-piece, a very smooth-working bolt which is rigid even when fully extended, an 18-inch barrel of fine accuracy, set-triggers, a silver bead mounted on a nice ramp, and a swinging Lyman with two apertures, this little tool handles splendidly, is light to carry in the woods, and slams its loads out to 300 yards with very little drop.

It did not take me long to discover that those long, lean, hungry- looking 160-grain pills had plenty of wallop. I shot three large bucks and a couple of black bear with them, and in no case did a bullet stay in any of these animals. They rambled right on through meat and bone, and there was never any necessity for chasing anything which was properly hit.

The bullets also showed up splendidly when shooting through very thick cover, not flying to bits and going off at a tangent as do the lighter slugs from the .250-3000, .22 Hi-Power, and others of the same type. I experimented with the 140-grain open-point Western load, a much faster bullet, and it was deadly enough; but the recoil oddly, seemed heavier
than that of the longer, heavier bullet, and for other reasons I did not like it as well as the regular 160-grain load.

Beautifully balanced for offhand shooting, with a glass-hard action which would slide backward and forward by itself, the Mannlicher won its way into my affections almost at once. By pressing a small stud on the right side of the receiver, the rotary magazine spills all the loaded shells right out into your hand; and this is a good feature, which might well be
copied by some of our American makers of fine rifles. That rotary magazine, by the way, is hand-polished, and detachable, and is certainly a sweet bit of mechanism. In three years of constant use I have never had even the slightest intimation of a jam or a misfire with the 6.5, nor lost a single head of game that offered a decent chance.

Lacking the equipment for careful targeting at known ranges, I cannot say just what sort of groups it would make in a machine rest, but for practical work in the game fields its appeal to me as just about the handiest, deadliest, sweetest-shooting tool which ever got into my hands - and I've had plenty of rifles!

Reading the works of other hunters and riflemen, I note that with very few exceptions they show a decided preference for longer barrels in the Mannlicher - preferably 24 inches or more. No doubt these long tubes do add speed to a bullet, and more punch at the delivery end.

I never got a chance to tag a moose with that small sweetheart of a rifle, but would welcome the opportunity to try it out on from a mature dinosaur to a small switch engine. I think it would stop either if held right.

One of the bucks killed with it was shot at an estimated range of 350 yards, across a big marsh. Using the regular 160-grain loads, I held a couple of feet over his shoulder and eased off the set trigger very carefully, shooting from the prone position with my elbows dug in solidly. The buck threw up his head and whistled, stamping his feet angrily and evidently uncertain as to the nature of the big insect which had just cracked past too high. So, dragging the front sight down just a hair, I slammed the second one across and both Mrs. Lee and I afterward agreed that we heard it land on the big boy's shoulder. Down he went in a still heap, not even thrashing after he struck.

After detouring around a lot of dry brush, we finally reached him. As usual we found both shoulders broken, and the 10-pointer was dead.

Performances of that type have welded my affection and respect for the little Mannlicher, until it even seems likely that I will keep it permanently, something which has never happened with any other gun in my years of constant change; and, outside of the specially built arms of Griffin & Howe, Hoffman, Niedner, and other of their kind, it seems to me that the 6.5mm Mannlicher stands almost alone in the field of finely built and most effective hunting arm.
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Thank you for your time and hopefully others out there may enjoy having read this old article.
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"Prominent users of the .256 Mannlicher rifle were Sir Edmund Loder, Sir Alfred Pease, John G. Millais, Maj. R. L. Kennion, P. H. G. Powell-Cotton, Maj. C. H. Stigand and Blayney Percival, all of whom evidently regarded the .256 Mannlicher as their favorite arm. Denis D. Lyell, Charles Sheldon, Hesketh K. H. Prichard, Capt. H. A. Wilson, Roy Chapman Andrews, Vilhjalmur Stefansson and the adventurer and big game hunter Denys Finch-Hatton.........."

To quote Sheldon: "I always had a .22 rifle to use for shooting grouse and small animals, but for large game my Mannlicher, .256 calibre, is the only rifle I have ever used in the North."
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Am I saying the .256 Mannlicher/6.5x54mm is the perfect hunting cartridge? Not necessarily.
Though in the right hands it has worked well, hasn't it . . .


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26413
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: awanderingbear]
      #247892 - 26/05/14 01:25 AM

That's a really good story.

That is why I have a "little" 6.5 in the locker, leaning in the rack between the 9.3x62 and .375/06IMP.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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mckinney
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Reged: 29/01/09
Posts: 1212
Loc: usa
Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: DarylS]
      #247893 - 26/05/14 01:35 AM

Very nice story which has stirred several thoughts:

1) would like to get up to Maine
2) need to buy some pre 1940's American Rifleman magazines
3) need to get a 6.5 x 54 Mannlicher!


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gmsemel
.224 member


Reged: 08/11/05
Posts: 29
Loc: East Haddam, CT
Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: mckinney]
      #251145 - 28/07/14 12:20 AM

Well all in all they seem to recommend moderate cartridges, 7mm RM 338 or a 375, I could agree with that and that they are quite common were ever big game is hunted. While the perfect cartridge for hunting White Tails in South Eastern CT on Private land ( you can use centerfire rifles if you do in CT) would make the suggested cartridges a bit over powerful for the game and the distances one shoots deer here, a 243 is plenty thou I shoot a 6.5 x 55 most of the time in my deer hunting here, I also been known to use both a 7mm RM, 338 Winchester and 7 x 57. Sure you could fit a 9.3 x 62 into the mix instead of a 338 or 375 and it would make perfect sense, since the performance levels are similar. Or a 30-06 for that matter, what they are really saying is a level of performance at an except able level of recoil, in a rifle that an less that physically fit individual that can carry and shoot reasonably well enough to get the job done. Lets face it, most never get to hunt the sort of game mentioned till late middle age or into ones 60's since younger persons don't have the money yet for such things and for most its a one hunt in a life time, I could be happy shooting my white tails with a 223 if it was legal, its not, or a 243, the deer here for the most part average about 100 lbs or so and shots well a long one would be 70 yards!

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39055
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: What is the perfect hunting cartridge??? [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #277349 - 30/01/16 04:40 PM

Quote:


Well said, and a good point on the .275 Rigby/7x57 round.I have always loved this round and in my ZKK Brno and my .275 Rigby I have used Finn Aagaards favorite load of 49/50 grains 4350 in a 140 Nosler. In both rifles it clocks in at 2,925 fps and I have used this load in 120 degree heat with no issues. My 173 Lapua factory loads are also quite devastating at 2,600 fps.In a modern rifle this moves along quite nicely and because of superior B.C. penetrates like a dream .I remember Finn Aagaards penetration tests and the 7x57 beat even the 416 Rigby .No wonder Bell and Corbett used it extensively




Having been reading Bell again recently, a .275 Rigby/7x57 sounds like a wonderful rifle. Capable of anything. Bell really was a master salesman in his confidence and writings about the rifle and cartridge. I want one now again.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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