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Ash
.400 member

Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1653
Loc: Australia

R. Jones .400 3" BPE (pic heavy)
#246902 - 03/05/14 10:26 AM

Was shown this by LesLeeSpeed on this forum. Bought it a few weeks back, arrived at the dealers 2 days ago, went and had a look yesterday and snapped some pics. Should be picking it up this coming week. Fortunately the dealer happened to have 15 cases that fit (bit sloppy, but will fire out). Ive got a .44 magnum expander and neck sizing die on the way.

The barrel reads "R Jones 9 (or was it 29?) Chapel Street, Liverpool"
64 bore with black powder proofs. Slugged the bore and it measured .429/430. So going to get some molds for the .44 magnum. Going to try and work out a trailboss load. May be getting some 300gr paper patched bullets to try out. Should be fun. Shes tiny! Has a damascus (just etched?) barrel too. Bores alright, slight pitting near the muzzle. Will see how it shoots. Hopefully get to take something with it in the upcoming months.

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Edited by CptCurl (19/07/14 09:45 PM)

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Sarg
.400 member

Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

Re: R. Jones .400 3" BPE (pic heavy) [Re: Ash]
#246903 - 03/05/14 10:50 AM

Thats cool, looks like full damascus to me !

Cases look collectable to, Super brand, havn't seen them in a long time ??

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3530
Loc: Colorado

Re: R. Jones .400 3" BPE (pic heavy) [Re: Sarg]
#246905 - 03/05/14 01:18 PM

Is the chamber really 3"?
Seems like a huge cartridge for a rifle which is a rook sized action.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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LesLeeSpeed
.300 member

Reged: 14/11/13
Posts: 223
Loc: Queensland Australia

Re: R. Jones .400 3" BPE (pic heavy) [Re: Huvius]
#246906 - 03/05/14 02:22 PM

It certainly is. I did the chamber cast and my research points toward it being a 400 Eley, which was one of the very early coiled brass cartridges available in England. From what I could find about the maker, I believe it was manufactured in the early to mid 1860's. Someone with a bit more knowledge or information on proof marks may be able to come up with a more definitive answer.
It is certainly a dainty little thing.
Regards
LesLeeSpeed

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Ash
.400 member

Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1653
Loc: Australia

Re: R. Jones .400 3" BPE (pic heavy) [Re: Sarg]
#246907 - 03/05/14 02:30 PM

Quote:

Thats cool, looks like full damascus to me !

Cases look collectable to, Super brand, havn't seen them in a long time ??

The super box is just what theyre kept in by whoever sold them. The box has "80gr Soft Point" on it, and i think it says "243"? But has "400 Purdy" stickers over those numbers and i dont want to peel it off to see. It also says "Ammunition" but has "Unprimed Brass" stuck over it.
The cases are Bertram 3" Nitro (what the headstamp says)

Huvius - the 3" case drops straight in

Les - thanks for doing the chamber cast and slugging the bore, you are a Godsend.

May have to be my go to gun when i'm out fossil collecting - always see foxes and the odd lone pig (and always within 10meters)

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: R. Jones .400 3" BPE (pic heavy) [Re: Ash]
#246908 - 03/05/14 03:03 PM

Looks neat.
Shoot it!

What does it weigh?

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Ash
.400 member

Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1653
Loc: Australia

Re: R. Jones .400 3" BPE (pic heavy) [Re: tinker]
#246909 - 03/05/14 03:08 PM

It will most definately be getting shot.

As for weight - i'll get back to you on that one. Its not much.

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93x64mm
.416 member

Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4008
Loc: Nth QLD Australia

Re: R. Jones .400 3" BPE (pic heavy) [Re: Ash]
#246911 - 03/05/14 04:17 PM

Ash, try paper patching & trailboss at least you won't start any fires out West with that!
Virtually no clean up except for a bit of carbon cleaner & an oiling.
When doing my .500 I have no leading issues & after a few swabs its clean as a whistle (except I use BP as propellant) I only use these loads on a range as I'm too nervous to use them hunting.
Looks an interesting old girl - but you do alright with it too!
Cheers
93x64mm

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TH44
.375 member

Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 733
Loc: West UK

Re: R. Jones .400 3" BPE (pic heavy) [Re: 93x64mm]
#246936 - 04/05/14 10:21 AM

Hi Ash

A lovely little rifle, certainly made in the Birmingham trade and retailed by R Jones ( not listed in Brown's at that address)

64 bore is .417 land and .425 - 430 groove diameter

The proofs are Birmingham, 1855 - 1904, but I cannot see clearly enough to make it closer, probably the earlier end of that scale

My first thoughts were as Huvius's - too long for a rook rifle but as you say, 3" the .400 kynoch is logical, although according to Fleming and Hoyem, they were only at 2 3/4 " and 3 1/4"

An interestng conundrum!

Good luck in your shooting

TH44

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: R. Jones .400 3" BPE (pic heavy) [Re: TH44]
#246939 - 04/05/14 12:25 PM

Very much possible a pitted chamber and throat have been chased to clean-up and run the longer brass.

Thick rim from nitro brass fits, after all.

Not much standing breech there.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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LesLeeSpeed
.300 member

Reged: 14/11/13
Posts: 223
Loc: Queensland Australia

Re: R. Jones .400 3" BPE (pic heavy) [Re: tinker]
#246943 - 04/05/14 01:45 PM

The chamber cast makes it 3 1/4" if I remember correctly, which points to the 400 Eley. It is definitely a light load prospect.

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: R. Jones .400 3" BPE (pic heavy) [Re: LesLeeSpeed]
#246948 - 04/05/14 02:40 PM

Either way Ash - you're going to run this thing, so let's get along with the show!

Get bullets.
Get blackpowder (2f should do fine)
Get primers.
Saddle felt for greased wads, tallow and beeswax for grease.

And Shoot It!

:-)

Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3530
Loc: Colorado

Re: R. Jones .400 3" BPE (pic heavy) [Re: TH44]
#246968 - 05/05/14 04:07 AM

Quote:

...64 bore is .417 land and .425 - 430 groove diameter...

My first thoughts were as Huvius's - too long for a rook rifle but as you say, 3" the .400 kynoch is logical, although according to Fleming and Hoyem, they were only at 2 3/4 " and 3 1/4"

Regardless of the case length, that bore will require a bullet quite a bit larger than the 400 used.
Sounds like the reasonable thing to do is fire form some brass and paper patch up to bore if you are using black powder. I just don't know if you will want to load up to the level required to bump up a soft lead bullet.
Or, patch up to whatever is needed to fit snug in a fired case and see what you get.

What does the chamber cast look like? Does the chamber run right up to the rifling or is there a lead?

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: R. Jones .400 3" BPE (pic heavy) [Re: Ash]
#246976 - 05/05/14 07:28 AM

I don't think he's going to try .400 bullets.
From orig post:

Quote:

...Slugged the bore and it measured .429/430. So going to get some molds for the .44 magnum. Going to try and work out a trailboss load. May be getting some 300gr paper patched bullets to try out...

Trail Boss should be really good if it can be found.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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