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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1652
Loc: Australia
Anyone own a .400 Purdey?
      #246298 - 23/04/14 09:20 PM

Just something i don't believe I've ever seen online or anywhere so asking the experts!

Does anyone here own a .400 Purdey? Or seen one? What weight were they? Action size? Pics?

Details on them! Its a nice cartridge (going by Cartridges of the World).

Cheers guys/gals.

--------------------
.

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Ash
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Posts: 1652
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Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: Ash]
      #246299 - 23/04/14 09:30 PM

Spoke too soon..

http://www.jagd-waffe.com/product/double-rifle-james-purdey-cal-400-ne/

--------------------
.

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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
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Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: Ash]
      #246301 - 23/04/14 09:40 PM

What would you feed that today instead of cordite...Daryl?

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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DarylS
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Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: gryphon]
      #246307 - 24/04/14 01:41 AM

I looked in my COTW - I could find nothing called the .400 Purdey.

Unless - it is the 3" straight case, originally a BP round of the late 1880's - COTW lists that one as loaded with Cordite by Purdey.

It is listed as 230gr. cordite load of 47gr.- velocity 2,050fps.

Thus it is a bit less powerful than current loadings in the .444 Marlin. It would be splendid for any of the game the .44 mag rifles and .444 are good for - deer, bear, up to moose and elk at ranges to 200yards.

H4895 would be my choice, with similar loadings to the .40/70 Sharps to start with.

It should make about 1,800fps or 1,900fps with 350gr. bullets in a 'smokeless' rifle of good shape - or perhaps simply duplicate the .444's ballistics due to it's longer case, larger capacity at lower pressures, of course.(if twisted fast enough for the longer bullets)

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Morten
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Reged: 24/04/04
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Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: DarylS]
      #246313 - 24/04/14 04:48 AM

I found this in Norway a yar ago and it sold with Holt's in the last sale. I hd it in my cabinet for a while and I just loved it! I will forever regret I was not able to put up the money to bye it my self, It was an absolute magnificent Rifle. So light and nicely propotions.

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...3&saletype=

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Ash
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Posts: 1652
Loc: Australia
Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: Morten]
      #246328 - 24/04/14 10:13 AM

http://www.kynochammunition.co.uk/400%20Purdey%203in.htm

I understand, Morten, that is beautiful!

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DarylS
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Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: Ash]
      #246331 - 24/04/14 11:13 AM

Yeah- that explains it. TKS.
With modern powders it would be dirt simple to duplicate factory ammo with H4895 or maybe even AA310 (lots of unburned littered in the barrel and action - perhaps), - BUT I would prefer the H4895.
If someone had the rifle, it would be simple to work out starting loads. A chronograph would be necessary as it is for any serious load development.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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paradox_
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Reged: 12/05/07
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Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: DarylS]
      #246335 - 24/04/14 02:12 PM

Refer Graeme Wrights book 70/H4350, 230GRrnsn for 2040fps. I did own one of these, a more delightful double you would hard pressed to find.

Best
Eric

--------------------
Walk softly and carry a big stick

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
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Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: paradox_]
      #246348 - 24/04/14 05:25 PM

I mentioned before, I handled the Queens .400 Purdey made for her as a coronation present, very nice it was too, lovely rear aperture that folded up from the tang. Hadn´t been used either I don´t think. As I think Nitro said, "Cant imagine Liz having done much crawling through the brambles"

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HistoricBore
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Reged: 28/09/11
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Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #246378 - 25/04/14 12:00 AM

15 years ago I handled a beauty retailed by Silver of London, the outfitters of recoil pad fame. It was cased, mint, with all accessories. No idea of its age. The seller wanted at least £2,500 then, which I could not justify. Should have bought it I suppose... I had even found some unused cases for it!

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39204
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: Morten]
      #246512 - 27/04/14 03:27 AM

Quote:

I found this in Norway a yar ago and it sold with Holt's in the last sale. I hd it in my cabinet for a while and I just loved it! I will forever regret I was not able to put up the money to bye it my self, It was an absolute magnificent Rifle. So light and nicely propotions.

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...3&saletype=



Do the images work for anyone else? I can't get any of the small images to display?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: NitroX]
      #246523 - 27/04/14 07:04 AM

Sorry Historicbore, that was a Purdey double at GBP2500 ??????? in mint condition ??

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TH44
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Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #246525 - 27/04/14 07:20 AM

Nitrox - I think the details are minimised after the sale, just the main pic is kept the others do not download

Mike - not sure about the exact details but before the more recent interpretation of the "antique firarrms" and the subsequent "obsolete calibres" list values of larger calibre rifles that would be difficult to justify on a firearms certificate were not that high but still GBP 2500 for a cased Purdey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TH44

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HistoricBore
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Reged: 28/09/11
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Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: TH44]
      #246543 - 27/04/14 09:50 PM

Sorry guys, I should have been clearer- it was a Silver cased rifle in the calibre of .400 Purdey. That day was very complicated as I was selling an original Elgin cutlass percussion pistol, and took in part exchange a nice Zella Martini rook rifle and a cased takedown .22HP Savage 99 retailed by Manton's of Calcutta, made about 1933. The guy also had this double, about the first I had ever seen, but didn't want to part with it. I rang him up a few days later but he didn't want to discuss it further.

Maybe I ought to give him another call.....

HB

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Ash
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Posts: 1652
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Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: HistoricBore]
      #246866 - 02/05/14 10:54 PM

Coincidentally, I now own a black powder version. .400 3" BPE. Bore diameter .430. It's only of the single barrel persuasion though.



--------------------
.

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
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Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: Ash]
      #246870 - 02/05/14 11:59 PM

C'mon Ash -- let's see it!

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Russ_Gould
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Reged: 20/12/06
Posts: 30
Loc: OR, USA
Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: tinker]
      #351083 - 04/03/21 06:04 AM

I built one on a Greener Martini action with a .411 bore dia 14 twist barrel and have found it to be most versatile. I can shoot 210gr 41 mag bullets for fun, little deer and pigs, 300gr 405 Win bullets for bigger soft skinned game incl cats, and even 350gr Swift A Frames for DG. Plus a "foraging" load of 000 buck pellets stacked in a 410 wad, they group tightly due to the spin, mainly as coyote medicine and I would not hesitate to use it on the odd guinea fowl or duiker.

I make brass from 9.3x74R by the wheaties method, quick trim and then full fireform load. The chamber was cut for the 9.3 rim as this brass is plentiful if a tad short.

Next project is an 8.5lb double, will be regulated for the A Frames at 2200 and will also try to find a sweet spot with the 41 mag bullet. I hear it can be done.

No idea why Purdey used such a mild load and short bullet. Mind you, back in those days they did not have the bullet technology we have today.

--------------------
http://doublegunhq.com - specializing in fine English, German and American double guns; and http://bigfivehq.com, specializing in safari rifles and hunting safaris

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
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Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: Russ_Gould]
      #351100 - 05/03/21 12:30 AM

Quote:

No idea why Purdey used such a mild load and short bullet


As I understand it, the cartridge was actually introduced by Purdeys as a "nitro for black" loading of previous BP 40-cal cartridges of varying lengths, settling on 3 inches as a standard moving forward.
Obviously something more powerful might have stood the test of time a little better than the .400 Purdey did!

Nevertheless, I too have a good stash of original brass tucked away for the day I find an affordable rifle so-chambered!
(note pigs flying overhead...)

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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3DogMike
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Reged: 29/01/15
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Loc: Western Slope, Colorado USA
Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: Marrakai]
      #351107 - 05/03/21 04:22 AM

Marrakai Tony has nailed it, the ".400 Purdey Light Express"......emphasis on "Express"
According to the Fleming book, introduced as a Nitro for Black or more correctly Light Cordite cartridge in ~1905

Back in the days leading up to this cartridge, the usual .40's were not considered as a large game calibre. Red Stag, Deer, and in India, Black Buck, Boar, and possibly Tiger from a howdah. Made up into nice slim light weight stalking rifles.
- Mike

Here are a three:
https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=101031536

https://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-f...un_id=100961270

https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/rifles/pur...200320125326001

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26489
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Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: 3DogMike]
      #351108 - 05/03/21 05:12 AM

Beautiful, every one.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3978
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: Russ_Gould]
      #351116 - 05/03/21 08:42 AM

Quote:

I built one on a Greener Martini action with a .411 bore dia 14 twist barrel and have found it to be most versatile. I can shoot 210gr 41 mag bullets for fun, little deer and pigs, 300gr 405 Win bullets for bigger soft skinned game incl cats, and even 350gr Swift A Frames for DG. Plus a "foraging" load of 000 buck pellets stacked in a 410 wad, they group tightly due to the spin, mainly as coyote medicine and I would not hesitate to use it on the odd guinea fowl or duiker.

I make brass from 9.3x74R by the wheaties method, quick trim and then full fireform load. The chamber was cut for the 9.3 rim as this brass is plentiful if a tad short.

Next project is an 8.5lb double, will be regulated for the A Frames at 2200 and will also try to find a sweet spot with the 41 mag bullet. I hear it can be done.

No idea why Purdey used such a mild load and short bullet. Mind you, back in those days they did not have the bullet technology we have today.



Russ,
That must have been a tight one to get around the corner of a Martini?
Mind you in regards to strength, shouldn't the Martini be theoretically should be stronger than a double?
I guess you made a .410 3" shot shell into a full Nitro version, not the NFB type
Glad you had a lot of success with it, would be nice to see you Greener if you can

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Ahmed577
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Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: 93x64mm]
      #351130 - 05/03/21 11:50 PM

Have a 600,500,?,375,and 300 PURDEY all built new for me. They would not build me a 400.

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1970
Loc: Denmark
Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: Ahmed577]
      #351136 - 06/03/21 08:13 AM

Quote:

Have a 600,500,?,375,and 300 PURDEY all built new for me. They would not build me a 400.



A bit rude isn’t ..?

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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
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Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: rigbymauser]
      #351137 - 06/03/21 08:44 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Have a 600,500,?,375,and 300 PURDEY all built new for me. They would not build me a 400.



A bit rude isn’t ..?


Frankly I'd be stumped over that one as to their reasoning, You could understand barrel why maybe about a .700, but a 400 Purdey which is of the same size as the (more)common .450/400, especially if you are a paying customer?

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3DogMike
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Re: Anyone own a .400 Purdey? [Re: 93x64mm]
      #351143 - 06/03/21 03:27 PM

Maybe "sort of" the same size as the .450/.400........as in generic calibre?
If one is speaking of the classic .400 Purdey the 3" straight case is closely similar in base and rim size to the 9.3x74R. The original ammo called for a .404'-.405" 230 grain bullet.

Maybe that classic bullet diameter of .404-.405" calling for special barrels bore/groove gave Purdey indigestion? Cannot be lack of available ammunition because modern Kynoch does list the Purdey .400 3" tho no idea what bullet diameter they use.
- Mike

EDIT: I looked at the Woodleigh list and sure enough they offer a proper .405” 230 grain bullet.

--------------------
"Here's to killing people you don't like with people you do"

"Will Rogers never met a fighter pilot"
- Anon

“Always carry a flask of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore always carry a small snake."
-- W. C. Fields

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