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I have two Ks' a 9.3 and a 450-400; both very accurate and reliable. But, you have to like the safety/cocking system. I don't mind it. I also have a Chapuis; good value there. I want a Heym, but as stated above, they are way overpriced. If their video is any indication, they are very inefficient in their manufacturing process, and I guess they don't want to change. Merkels? Never owned one.

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My bore scope told a slightly different story. All three had leades that looked like a tractor had dragged a nasty farm implement across the lands within the throat. The rest of the bore was equivalent to the quality of a Remington. This is NOT a compliment. Tool marks, smeared lands, utterly disgusting lack of care and craftsmanship.

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Personally feel, especially based on your findings of the bore scope..in todays world as has been normally always the case, you get what you pay for..there are NO free lunchs...unless you are a democrat in the US, then you get a free lunch and a phone....

Simply put, there is a reason other than just name that you pay what you do for the other brands..

Ripp

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The above is not my experience with the bores in Merkel double rifles! The fact is these barrels are rifled by cold hammer forging, and there is np more accurate way of rifling a barrel. The carbide mandrel has the lands and grooves cut in negative on the outside of the mandrel. This is pressed into the bore, and cold hammer forged compressing the barrel steel to form a positive land and groove, then stress relieved at several hundred degrees below zero tempratures. There is no reason for tool marks to be present in a cold hammer forged barrel’s bore because no tools are used to rifle that type of barrel.

Some of the most accurately rifled barrels in the gun world are cold hammer forged. Rifles like Mannlicher Shoenauer, Heym, Suuer, and the like are all cold hammer forged barrels. All made exactly the same way.

On the Merkel double rifles being made on shotgun actions! That is backwards! Merkel shotguns are made on rifle actions, not the reverse. This is one reason the rifles and shotguns can be made for the price point they can because the making of only one action for all the S/S double rifles and shotguns, just making the same action with reduced shapes for the smaller rifles and shotguns, All starting with the same basic forging.

The 140-1.2 Safari 375H&H through 500NE are made on a 20 ga SIZE action with a heavier barr and wider fences. The 140E-1 chambered from the smaller chamberings up through 9.3X74R is also made on a 20 ga but with a more thin barr, and narrower fences. The 141 double with adjustable regulation is very light,and is made on a 28 ga size action, and is chambered for the same cartridges as the 140E-1 but is extremely light. However all are made with cold hammer forged barrels, and all are build on rifle actions.

George Caswell does know his stuff, but the opinion that a Chapuis double is stronger that a Merkel is simply that HIS OPINION, and is not bared out by the facts.

I have zero problem with any of the brands mentioned in this thread, and if the fit you and that is what you want I say BUY ONE, but think a Merkel is a weak rifle is simply a mistake!

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..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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I have a K-gun and a Searcy. The K-gun's finish (metal work and overall) is far superior to the Searcy's.

I like the K-guns cocking lever feature and find it very useable in the field. Also very accurate and fits me well.

Cheers.

GG

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GG375, may I ask which model B. Searcy you have?

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..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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My bore scope told a slightly different story. All three had leades that looked like a tractor had dragged a nasty farm implement across the lands within the throat. The rest of the bore was equivalent to the quality of a Remington. This is NOT a compliment. Tool marks, smeared lands, utterly disgusting lack of care and craftsmanship.

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Personally feel, especially based on your findings of the bore scope..in todays world as has been normally always the case, you get what you pay for..there are NO free lunchs...unless you are a democrat in the US, then you get a free lunch and a phone....

Simply put, there is a reason other than just name that you pay what you do for the other brands..

Ripp

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The above is not my experience with the bores in Merkel double rifles! The fact is these barrels are rifled by cold hammer forging, and there is np more accurate way of rifling a barrel. The carbide mandrel has the lands and grooves cut in negative on the outside of the mandrel. This is pressed into the bore, and cold hammer forged compressing the barrel steel to form a positive land and groove, then stress relieved at several hundred degrees below zero tempratures. There is no reason for tool marks to be present in a cold hammer forged barrel’s bore because no tools are used to rifle that type of barrel.

Some of the most accurately rifled barrels in the gun world are cold hammer forged. Rifles like Mannlicher Shoenauer, Heym, Suuer, and the like are all cold hammer forged barrels.

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Yes, that is my understanding as to how forged rifling is done. Is the chamber also formed this way or is the chamber / leade cut with a reamer after cold forging? Could a dull reamer smear the lands? I am at a loss to explain the tool marks. Possibly marks from a bad cleaning rod? I bought all three new so there have been no owners previous before me that could have mistreated the bores.

My pockets aren't as deep as some, and with the serious $ all these doubles cost, it really irks me to see less than what I'd hoped for. I don't expect match grade air gauged / polished Lilja, Krieger, or Hart barrels, but I do look at Sako factory rifles as a reasonable standard to compare to. I've had close to maybe a dozen Sakos pass through my vault and their bores were all very well executed: smooth transition between chamber to lands / grooves, very sharp and square lands. I know I'm being overly critical and a bit of a fuss pot but hey, it does kind of bug me like getting a nasty scratch in the paint of a new car bugs me after spending all that money.

I would again emphasize that my Merkels have been very accurate without dispute irrespective of what I see with the bore scope. Indeed, I still have the 9.3x74 140A and will never part with it. My .470 140AE was used to raise cash to pay for my Heym, but there was nothing wrong with it's performance at the range whatsoever.

These Merkels are beautiful well put together rifles. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them. Beauty is one thing, but they do perform very well at the range and most certainly in the game fields where it counts.

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... I will try to live in a state of denial.

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I'm right there with you... Not a bad place, once you get used to it...

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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Moving along the lands, there are a great number of cut marks perpendicular to the lands across the surface of the lands running maybe an inch into the bores proper. The cut marks make the lands look similar to a washboard dirt road. Moving further into the bores, the lands look more like they should.

Still this Merkel shoots!!! I just can't look inside anymore because it really does bug me. I will try to live in a state of denial.

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Postman, I feel your pain! That description clears this up some! This is the only area in the bore where a cold hammer forged barrel could show tool marks. However these marks can be polished out, by a knowledgeable smith without any ill effect.

These cuts are, IMO, the result of an over used chambering reamer, or a tiny shaving getting hung in the reamer and not noticed by the tech doing the chambering. In any event it should have been polished out in the lead, but if the rifle shoots properly it really doesn't matter to anything but a perfectionist's mindset! I fully understand your thinking, as I'm guilty of that mindset as well. I think all rabid double rifle people are just a little on the perfectionist side!

I must admit that I haven't personally looked that close to the lead in any of my Merkels. You have me looking for a bore scope as we speak.

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..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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Moving along the lands, there are a great number of cut marks perpendicular to the lands across the surface of the lands running maybe an inch into the bores proper. The cut marks make the lands look similar to a washboard dirt road. Moving further into the bores, the lands look more like they should.

Still this Merkel shoots!!! I just can't look inside anymore because it really does bug me. I will try to live in a state of denial.

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Postman, I feel your pain! That description clears this up some! This is the only area in the bore where a cold hammer forged barrel could show tool marks. However these marks can be polished out, by a knowledgeable smith without any ill effect.

These cuts are, IMO, the result of an over used chambering reamer, or a tiny shaving getting hung in the reamer and not noticed by the tech doing the chambering. In any event it should have been polished out in the lead, but if the rifle shoots properly it really doesn't matter to anything but a perfectionist's mindset! I fully understand your thinking, as I'm guilty of that mindset as well. I think all rabid double rifle people are just a little on the perfectionist side!

I must admit that I haven't personally looked that close to the lead in any of my Merkels. You have me looking for a bore scope as we speak.

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Don't do it!! Please, just don't do it!!!!! Bore scopes lead to insanity!!!!!!!!!!!

The 141-A that I had in .30-06 (had is the operative word!) had the lands in the leade actually smeared like the metal was made of cake icing. I waited over a year for that rifle and when it finally arrived I took it home and looked inside, I was truly sick to my stomach. The rifle was soooo super light and handy, but the do it yourself regulation never worked right, and the state of the bore was just awful. It was barely ok I suppose within the context of double rifle accuracy perspective - it shot a 4" diagonal group at 50 yards and the shots tended to wander around some within the composite group. The varying point of impact I do credit to the super light weight barrels that heated very quickly as one might expect out of really light barrels so I wouldn't blame that on Merkel. It is simply a derivative of physics. Anyway, that rifle went down the highway out of sheer disgust and disappointment. I lost a bunch of money and that was the last Merkel I've purchased. I wouldn't ever suggest I won't buy another one if I see one that catches my fancy because the soldered barrel versions have really shot well for me and have been masterfully regulated.

Honestly out of the three I've owned (4 including the drilling), all displayed really sloppy work in the leade area. All save for the 141A shot really well in spite of the factory chamber work. I just don't understand why someone would take such great painstaking care and precision in building and meticulously fitting a rifle such that it is truly a masterpiece and then pull a bone headed move by screwing up the works with sloppy chamber work.

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All of this above is precisely why I would never buy a bore scope! I have a feeling that my gun safe would have much more room in it if I did. From reading all of this, I've pretty much removed Merkel from my wish list. If I paid the money it takes to buy one, I would be very unforgiving to flaws such as the ones mentioned....

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It's a rifle action. That was conclusively established long ago. Like NitroX says, these internet rumors die hard.

The Merkel action is made out of very high grade steel and is hell for strong.

Curl

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