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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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Astor
.224 member


Reged: 06/12/04
Posts: 23
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Double rifle values?
      #24452 - 18/01/05 01:38 PM

I don't mean to be nosey but..., what would a chap reasonably expect to pay for a rifle of that caliber/quality? You may tell me to "pump salt" and I assure you I will be not be offended. I admire your purchase and since I am currently in the market for a 450/400 NE, I have more than a passing interested. To date I have seen and priced a number of boxlocks but nothing approaching the quality of your Woodward. Did you buy it privately or from a dealer? By the way, does any one know the going consignment fee the "dealers" are charging? In Canada they charging 20% on consignment items. Does this seem to vary from country to country or because it is such a small market has globalization dictated some what of a standard?



(Edit Note: I have moved this post and any replies to a new thread on request from one of the moderators. They felt it was a topic which deserved its own thread. NitroX

Originally from this thread

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=doubles&Number=22354&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=2&vc=1




Edited by NitroX (01/02/05 05:51 PM)


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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5272
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Double rifle values? [Re: Astor]
      #24549 - 19/01/05 03:33 PM

Astor,

I don't take your question to be nosey, but it is practically impossible to answer, because I don't know of a Woodward double rifle being offered for sale at this time. They are certainly rare, and to find one in this condition is unusual, I think. Frankly, this is the only Woodward double rifle I have ever seen, though I don't claim to be an expert on the subject. However, I do go to a lot of high-end gun shows looking at double rifles.

Search the market. Look at these websites:

Holland & Holland:

H&H

Purdey:

Purdey

Westley Richards:

Westley Richards

Roosevelt & Drake:

Drake

Champlain Arms:

Champlin

Fred Roberts:

Fred Roberts

John Foster:

John Foster

Connecticut Shotgun Manufacturing Co.:

Galazan

These are some of the dealers who offer best quality double rifles. You can find what you are looking for there.

The more I dabble in double rifles, the more convinced I am that there is no set market for them. Each one is unique, unless you are dealing in the realm of Searcy, Merkel, Chapuis, Kreighoff, etc. Best quality guns are singular items, and each must be evaluated for what it is. They are works of art from a bygone era that will never be offered again. How does one put a price on that? The buyer must go with his guts and instincts. Pricewise, the numbers get rather large, so the market is not for the faint of heart.

The point I am trying to make is that buying a best gun is not like buying a Ford or Chevrolet. With the car you can shop many dealers that will offer the identical car at their price. You take the best offer and have your car.

You will never find a series of gun dealers that will have in stock identical best quality double rifles. There is no such thing. You don't see a Woodward in one store and then run next door to check the price on the other guy's Woodward. It won't be there.

I know this is not a direct answer, but the market is out there for anybody to study. The internet has given all of us the ability to search for these priceless items on a global basis. If a best gun comes to market in Australia, or in England, or in the USA, or in Canada, in all likelihood it will appear on a prominent website for the whole world to see. You simply must look and learn.

Good luck in your search,
CptCurl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Edited by NitroX (01/02/05 05:48 PM)


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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Double rifle values? [Re: Astor]
      #25042 - 24/01/05 06:39 PM

Champlins had this for sale in 1995.

Woodward "The Automatic" Cal .450/.400 3 1/4" BPE Underlever Sidelock, scolloped fences, scroll engraving, bolted safety w/80% case colors, dolls head, extractor. Barrel: 27" w/excellent bores. Sights: full length hand filed rib w/one standing and one folding express sight.
Weight: 8lbs 1 oz Stock: 14 1/2 LOP over 1" pad, stocked in English walnut w/cheekpiece.
A superb rifle built in 1894, cased with accessories.
One of the nicest BP rifles you'll see.
Price $85,000


Ha got ya!
Sorry, typo with the price!
Should be $8,500

Yes it is a BP rifle not nitro but apparently so was Curly's originally.
Just thought it may be of interest.

Edited by NitroX (01/02/05 05:48 PM)


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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5272
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Double rifle values? [Re: 4seventy]
      #25506 - 01/02/05 10:40 AM

Alan,

Just as a matter of curiosity, what do you reckon the gun you mentioned is worth in 2005, 10 years down the road, assuming equal condition?

The nature of my question is not really the specifics of any one gun or rifle, but how much you or anyone perceives that the market has changed over the last ten years.

What about the last 20 years? That's a relevant time period for me, because I acquired my first double rifle in 1982 or 1983.

I just had this type of discussion with a number of double afficionadoes, dealers and collectors, at the Las Vegas Antique Arms Show during the past few days. Everyone I polled thinks the market has skyrocketed, and all wonder whether any end is in sight.

The fact of the matter is, everybody wants to know the answer to Astor's question - not in regard to my rifle or any particular rifle, but in regard to the market in general. What I stated to Astor in my last post was not intended to be a round-about way of brushing off the question, and I sincerely hope it was not taken that way. I was giving a serious account of how I try to evaluate the market. There is no Wall Street Journal of double guns, unfortunately.

I reiterate, no two of these firearms are exactly alike.

My point was that I could say I paid $$$ or I paid $$$$$$, but it wouldn't mean anything because of all the other variables of condition, caliber, provenance, case and accessories, alteration, etc. etc.

If I paid $$$, some would say it's too much. Others would say it's a bargain. Likewise if I paid $$$$$$.

And not all of these firearms are purchased. What if I inherited that rifle? What's it worth then? A double gun is what it is, whether somebody paid $$$ or $$$$$$, or zero. I'll confess that I was not fortunate enough to have inherited this rifle.

I just spent the last few days at the Las Vegas Antique Arms Show looking at nothing but double guns (and bought another one too). The dealers are now asking prices for boxlocks that were asked for sidelocks in 1995.

It would be interesting to hear the market impressions of the readers of this forum. I very well may know less about double gun prices than anybody.

I feel sure the market in the U.S. is different from the market in Australia, or in England, or in Germany, etc.

Speak up, folks!

Regards,
CptCurl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Edited by NitroX (01/02/05 05:48 PM)


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Double rifle values? [Re: CptCurl]
      #25513 - 01/02/05 02:03 PM

Intresting post.

I personally think that every time a new Searcy or Merkel or Krieghoff rolls off the assemble line English Rifles increase in value. This may sound strange as it would seem to pollute the market with decent quality new rifles but I belive most of these are being purchased by new buyers. These buyers, for the most part, would not buy a collectable firearm but will spend for a new one.

As time goes buy they want to move up and that's where the finite number of quality English rifles becomes more valuable. Even not so nice ones will bring a lot more than they would have if all the new boys had not started up.

Growing number of buyers + finite numbers of product = increased value. I would guess, maybe 25 - 30% over the last 5 years.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

Edited by NitroX (01/02/05 05:47 PM)


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