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John303
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Reged: 16/11/06
Posts: 243
Loc: Canada
P14 Question
      #243027 - 25/02/14 10:37 AM

I recently came across a decent p14 sort of converted into a sporter - full military metal with the stock cut down. My question is what do think of taking the rear sight ears down to a single bridge, Mauser style? It looks ideal for that sort of transformation.
Any members ever come across / have one done this way. Some pics / comments would be appreciated. --- John


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MikeRowe
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Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 478
Loc: Arkansas, USA
Re: P14 Question [Re: John303]
      #243028 - 25/02/14 11:10 AM

You can do this OK. There will be a big oval hole left in the top, but it is a great place to build in a peep sight.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: P14 Question [Re: John303]
      #243045 - 26/02/14 02:34 AM

Sorry I have no pictures, John - but removing the ears and rounding the rear bridge is a normal modification to the P-14's and 1917's.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Igorrock
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Reged: 01/03/07
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Loc: Finland
Re: P14 Question [Re: DarylS]
      #243050 - 26/02/14 05:06 AM

This topic could be useful to read:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=151783&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4907
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: P14 Question [Re: Igorrock]
      #243063 - 26/02/14 05:15 PM

Slight topic hi jack but does anybody know if a CZ550 Magnum Follower, mag spring and/or mag box will fit into an M17 Action that has been made to take an 8X68s and 338RUM. Just having these conversion done, one now one latter.

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
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Re: P14 Question [Re: Rule303]
      #243074 - 27/02/14 01:19 AM

John:
Between the wars BSA made a small number of "High Power" rifles based on surplus P14 actions, and these were retailed in greater numbers after WWII as the BSA Models D and E. I believe Models A through E were available at one time or another, but only the Models D and E are shown in the Parker Hale catalogue of 1954. I have a nice example of the Model E, the highest grade, that was a farm rifle in Zim prior to Uncle Bob's "repatriations" at which time the previous owner emigrated to Australia.
Long story, apologies, but my point is that cutting off the ears and rounding the rear bridge was a successful commercial modification in the UK for several decades.

Here is a pic from another website:

You can see that the large oval hole has been filled.

and another...


One more...


If I get time tomorrow I'll photograph the one in my custody.
Hope this is of some use.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
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Re: P14 Question [Re: Marrakai]
      #243079 - 27/02/14 03:08 AM

Buddy of mine has had a long-standing love affair with Model 1917's and P14's. He still has a few of them, one in .308 calibre, that I chambered for the .303 ctg. It shoots splendidly with 180gr. factory, or handloaded with 220gr. round nose Hornady's his reason for the 'work'. He's found a love affair with the .308", 150gr. Hornady Interbond bullet at about 2,800fps in this rifle and is the only bullet he uses in it, now. Others are in 6.5x68 and his first, a custom stocked 8x68 S from 1980 in a beauitifully patterned Bastone Walnut wihch is still killing moose, just about every year. All have the original followers.

The one I had for a time, appeared to be a pattern P14 with an odd magazine opening- appeard to be for the rim to easily come up, but with a 1917 bolt and .30/06 barrel and chambering in a commercial sporterization- Remington Model 30 or model 60? Anyway it fed '06 just fine. I re-chambered it to .30/.338 and rebated the rims - got tired of that round and opened up the bolt for the magnum case and re-chambered it to .300 Win. Mag. and it fed ALL those too, perfectly, without any modification - maybe I was just lucky.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Tentman
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Reged: 13/06/10
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Loc: Southland, New Zealand
Re: P14 Question [Re: DarylS]
      #243195 - 02/03/14 07:23 PM

Hello Guys

I've recently acquired a BSA Model E in 303. Its seen a fairly hard life but is in good working order.

Does anyone have a few pet loads for P14 303's ??

--------------------
Southland, New Zealand


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SCGunNut
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Reged: 05/05/06
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Loc: South Carolina
Re: P14 Question [Re: Tentman]
      #246096 - 21/04/14 12:15 PM

Here's my own BSA "E" that I picked up at a gun show about 4 years ago:




This is the very first 3 shot 100 yard group I fired with it using 39.5 grains of 4320 and the 215 grain Woodleigh:


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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Reged: 27/04/08
Posts: 449
Loc: From the Kalahari to the USA
Re: P14 Question [Re: John303]
      #246101 - 21/04/14 02:43 PM

Quote:

I recently came across a decent p14 sort of converted into a sporter - full military metal with the stock cut down. My question is what do think of taking the rear sight ears down to a single bridge, Mauser style? It looks ideal for that sort of transformation.
Any members ever come across / have one done this way. Some pics / comments would be appreciated. --- John



This is my Model 720 Remington which my Father purchased in Alaska just out of high school in 1942 .It made the inside passage trip with him to join the Marine Corps that year . The Remington 720 is based on the Enfield P17 action. Remington only made about 1000 of these rifles. This rifle has accounted for everything from Kodiak Bear to Rocky Mountain goat to Whitetail deer literally hundreds of head of big game. I consider this rifle as good as or better than any ever made including the pre 64 Model 70 Winchesters which I have had a few of. Enfields are very strong and reliable actions and Holland and Holland made Afrikan sporters on P14 and P17 actions
s on this action.

Edited by Deutsche_Vortrekker (21/04/14 03:08 PM)


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: P14 Question [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #246141 - 22/04/14 02:32 AM

150gr. Hornady SP
44.5gr. IMR4064
48.0gr. BLC2
45.0gr. Re#15.
all running just over 2,700fps

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4907
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: P14 Question [Re: DarylS]
      #246183 - 22/04/14 01:10 PM

Daryl thanks for the info about the original folower. I am trying to locate 2 as the Model 70 follower used in my 8X68s leaves functions but could be better.

Plenty of nice P14/M17 conversions pictured. Mine is not quite so nice as it has a boyds laminated stock. just have to increase the lenght of pull by 1.5inches.

Cheers

Greg


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93x64mm
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Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 3975
Loc: Nth QLD Australia
Re: P14 Question [Re: Rule303]
      #246195 - 22/04/14 08:22 PM

Tentman
.303 load for P14 or Mauser type rifles
Remington brass
Federal 210 primers
150gn Speer / Sierra SP
46gn AR2208 for 2695fps average with a variation less the 5fps
Both shoot 5 shots into a 35mm group at 50m with original peep sights.
The Sierras shoot 1" higher at the same velocity.
This is all but the same velocity as the Sellior & Bellot factory ammo 2720fps average.
Someone better behind the butt will easy beat this group - but this load can punch thru 4" of iron bark gum before anchoring a good 80+kg boars.
I wondered why I hit him so far back at about 35m or so, didn't know I hit the tree until I came closer. I broke his back first shot in fairly thick scrub in the gulf country near Normanton.
Didn't go too far with one behind his ear after that.
They can really scoot - should have done more lead during the swing through!
Cheers
93x64mm


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Tentman
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Reged: 13/06/10
Posts: 128
Loc: Southland, New Zealand
Re: P14 Question [Re: 93x64mm]
      #246199 - 22/04/14 08:49 PM

Hmmm - lots of great looking loads, but not one powder listed that I actually have in the cabinet. I do have AR2206H and IMR 4320 and next slowest is AR2209 and RE-17. Any thoughts Gentlemen ?? Maybe I need a can of AR2208.

--------------------
Southland, New Zealand


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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: P14 Question [Re: Tentman]
      #246249 - 23/04/14 09:48 AM

Tentman:
41gr AR2209 under the 215gr RN bullet will shoot to the sights in my No.1-pattern Lee Speed. It is my preferred load for that bullet weight (Taipan and Woodleigh). The same velocity load of AR2208 shoots around 3 inches off at 50m (high, and a bit to one side).

Hope this helps.

(...with apologies to John for perpetuating thread hijack!)


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John303
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Reged: 16/11/06
Posts: 243
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Re: P14 Question [Re: Marrakai]
      #246252 - 23/04/14 12:31 PM

No apology needed, the thread turned out better than expected, I thank everyone pirate / not for their input. I like the pics. that action produces some good rifles IMHO. I had to put my P-14 purchase on hold, tripped over a nice BSA Majestic De Luxe in 30-06 and it followed me home. I had never handled one but they are quite a nice rifle.

Nothing like pirating one's own. --- John


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500Boswell
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Reged: 21/07/06
Posts: 1276
Loc: Queensland
Re: P14 Question [Re: John303]
      #246278 - 23/04/14 05:39 PM

Cogswell and Harrison also made Rifles based on P14s up to 404 ,did any other British manufacturers use Enfield actions ? in the Movie Safari, with Victor Mature i believe from memory he is using one and poleaxes an elephant with it with a frontal headshot

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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: P14 Question [Re: 500Boswell]
      #246497 - 27/04/14 12:38 AM

In the interests of thoroughly hijacking this thread...
Quote:

did any other British manufacturers use Enfield actions ?



Not British, but who could forget Art Alphin's "Hannibal"!

Up to .577 Tyranosaur... and beyond?

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: P14 Question [Re: Marrakai]
      #246503 - 27/04/14 02:52 AM

IMR4320 is a good powder and meters really accurately from most measures due to the short stick shape.
It is quite dense as well,for it's size although in the .303- that is not important.

My old Pacific loading manual (Pacific Tool Company, Lincoln Nebraska) lists loads for the .303 when in P-14's , which tend to be slightly higher than those normally listed for the more springy Lee-type Enfield rifles.

If you wish these loads, please PM me and I'll give you the list. They run all the applicable IMR and most Hodgdon powders.

Interestingly enough, although not surprising, BLC2 is THE powder for 150gr. bullets for this ctg. in strong actions - 2,780fps with a starting load at 2,600fps.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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peteblt
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Reged: 28/04/14
Posts: 8
Loc: usa/canada
Re: P14 Question [Re: Deutsche_Vortrekker]
      #246630 - 29/04/14 06:23 AM

A bit off topic, but that's a great scope you have on that rifle. Kollmorgens are bullet proof and has great optics (They built USN periscopes). Just found a minty 6X w/flat top post and CH. Going to a clone 03A4

Once had a Gibbs P-14 in 375 H&H that was a great rifle.

Several P-17s back in the day when the 25-06 was still a wildcat. Burned up two 26" Douglas barrels. LC NM cases, neck em' down. fill case with 50 cent a pound surplus 4831, card it off, put in a 87 gr Sierra softpoint and explode woodchucks.

Memory could be failing, but I don't think all P14/17s left a big hole when the ears were removed.


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
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Re: P14 Question [Re: peteblt]
      #246642 - 29/04/14 08:09 AM

The size of the hole or if there is a hole might depend on how much you grind off - maybe?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Brithunter
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Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 184
Loc: Lincolnshire, England
Re: P14 Question [Re: Marrakai]
      #276639 - 16/01/16 02:01 PM

Quote:

John:
Between the wars BSA made a small number of "High Power" rifles based on surplus P14 actions, and these were retailed in greater numbers after WWII as the BSA Models D and E. I believe Models A through E were available at one time or another, but only the Models D and E are shown in the Parker Hale catalogue of 1954. I have a nice example of the Model E, the highest grade, that was a farm rifle in Zim prior to Uncle Bob's "repatriations" at which time the previous owner emigrated to Australia.
Long story, apologies, but my point is that cutting off the ears and rounding the rear bridge was a successful commercial modification in the UK for several decades.

Here is a pic from another website:

You can see that the large oval hole has been filled.

and another...


One more...


If I get time tomorrow I'll photograph the one in my custody.
Hope this is of some use.




The photos here are of my Model E without the Parker-Hale 6E sporting aperture sight and the Model D or C. This one was in too bad shape to know for sure having been cut about. This one still needs a decent replacement stock but now has a unused BSA barrel fitted that was Ball Burnished by AG. Parkers. There is still some work to do and maybe straighten out the dog leg on the bolt which is quite pitted:-



As can be seen here. The "new" barrel is actually of 1954 vintage if we go by the view marks:-









and it has a nice tight bore the cast lead bullets bore riding nose measures 0.301". The barrel breeched up with minimum headspace and ahs bee blacled as as the action:-



It currenty sits in this P-H altered semi sport/target stock that came off a knackered P-H altered P-14 and that is why it needs a nice decent stock of the correct sporting style.

The Model E has a new Redfield sporting aperture sight fitted to it with a Watson fore sight element. I need to get new photos of it after losign access to my Picturetrail account.

--------------------
Don't let the bastards grind you down!


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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: P14 Question [Re: MikeRowe]
      #276661 - 17/01/16 12:43 AM

Quote:

You can do this OK. There will be a big oval hole left in the top, but it is a great place to build in a peep sight.




According to Roy Dunlap's book, Gunsmithing, all Winchester made actions have the "big oval hole" or "duck pond" in the receiver bridge, none of the Remington made Enfields do, and some Eddystone made ones do and others do not, above and below a certain serical serial number, which Dunlap was unable to obtain.

Here is one of my remodeled P-14's, a Remington: metal work by Harry Creighton, stock by Hal Hartley, caliber .416/.300 Winchester Magnum, Lyman 2 1/2X All American scope in a Buehler mount.





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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: P14 Question [Re: xausa]
      #276666 - 17/01/16 04:13 AM

Fine looking P-14.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Brithunter
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Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 184
Loc: Lincolnshire, England
Re: P14 Question [Re: DarylS]
      #276678 - 17/01/16 08:06 AM

BSA filled the hole by boring it round they fitting a tightly fitting plug into it.

--------------------
Don't let the bastards grind you down!


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