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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing

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Dumprat
.300 member

Reged: 20/02/14
Posts: 205
Loc: Vancouver island bc.

North American Mauser cartridge?
#242965 - 24/02/14 07:06 AM

Picked up a project Mauser 98 action last night. Just pondering what caliber to build it in. I don't much care for metric ammunition as it can be difficult or expensive to find locally. I was thinking of a 338-06 as I had a 35 whelen and found it liked to push the case ahead of the extractor if single loaded. The action is an 8x57 at the moment. The rifle will be used for Moose, black and possibly grizzly bears. Fire away with opinions!

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LesLeeSpeed
.300 member

Reged: 14/11/13
Posts: 223
Loc: Queensland Australia

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: Dumprat]
#242971 - 24/02/14 10:01 AM

Hi Dumprat,
The mauser action is not meant to be single loaded. I think you can modify the extractor to do this but it is much easier to just press a single round into the magazine and load from there. If it still pushes in front of the extractor from there then you need to modify the floorplate or action rails to suit the larger projectile. You can load from on top of the floorplate by depressing the side of the extractor as you move the bolt forward, however this is not a great practice.
Regards
Les

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Dumprat
.300 member

Reged: 20/02/14
Posts: 205
Loc: Vancouver island bc.

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: LesLeeSpeed]
#242974 - 24/02/14 11:52 AM

That is not the problem. With the whelen's short tapered shoulder the extractor claw will push the case forward increasing the headspace. If fed out of the magazine there is not a problem. But in fast situations single drop in loading can be needed.

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Igorrock
.400 member

Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1649
Loc: Finland

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: Dumprat]
#242997 - 24/02/14 10:11 PM

Quote:

But in fast situations single drop in loading can be needed.

How many seconds longer it takes to push the ammo in the magazine ?

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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Viking338
.333 member

Reged: 11/08/11
Posts: 480
Loc: Queensland Australia

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: Dumprat]
#242998 - 24/02/14 10:12 PM

My 338.06, 7x57, 8x57 and .458WM all Mauser actions all have been adapted to close on a round dropped in the chamber. They all still function perfectly as CF so this is easily remedied in my opinion. I don't mean to sound smart or offend, just saying.

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Dumprat
.300 member

Reged: 20/02/14
Posts: 205
Loc: Vancouver island bc.

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: Viking338]
#243003 - 25/02/14 01:44 AM

^yes that is exactly what I am talking about. The 35 doesn't have enough shoulder to keep the case from being shoved in too far.

And yes some tenths of second count. I had an isrelei 308 that worked great for single loading. Just drop it in the hole and slam the bolt closed.

Edited by Dumprat (25/02/14 02:07 AM)

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Setterguy
.275 member

Reged: 09/06/11
Posts: 78
Loc: Washington, USA

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: Dumprat]
#243004 - 25/02/14 02:14 AM

Dumprat,
I built a 338-06 on a pre-64 Mod.70 action several years ago and killed two or three elk in timber with it. It performed perfectly. As I am sure you know it is not a long range round but for close quarters using a 250 grain Nosler Partition it was very good medicine. I built it using a feather weight Win. barrel so it was not pleasant to shoot at the range but in the brush who notices! I would worry a little on grizzlies though.------------Bill

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Dumprat
.300 member

Reged: 20/02/14
Posts: 205
Loc: Vancouver island bc.

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: Setterguy]
#243006 - 25/02/14 03:39 AM

Kind of what I was thinking. Nice and light I am not much of a "range rat" so recoil won't be a big deal.

My father was a game warden and predator control officer for several years, he had a 338 Brown whelen and used it on several grizzly bears.Worked great. With a 21" barrel it sure was loud though.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: Viking338]
#243009 - 25/02/14 03:54 AM

Quote:

My 338.06, 7x57, 8x57 and .458WM all Mauser actions all have been adapted to close on a round dropped in the chamber. They all still function perfectly as CF so this is easily remedied in my opinion. I don't mean to sound smart or offend, just saying.

I've never had a problem with a standard round not being chambered properly with slam feeding in my Mausers Even my 9.3x57 and 6.5x44 Swedes on 96's work perfectly that way- slam feeding - just a bit of a polish on the extractor is all that was needed.
I've never heard of shoving a Whelen's shoulder forward creating excessive headspace - I do not think it is possible to do that when chambering. It is quite possible with a .400 Whelen - I'd expect, but not a .35. imho

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Waidmannsheil
.400 member

Reged: 19/04/13
Posts: 2443
Loc: Melbourne Australia

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: DarylS]
#243012 - 25/02/14 06:58 AM

I have always found that it takes longer to try and fiddle around dropping a round into the chamber than it does to press it into the magazine, especially if the magazine and follower are working properly.

--------------------
There is nothing wrong with vegetarian food, so long as there is meat with it.

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Igorrock
.400 member

Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1649
Loc: Finland

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: Waidmannsheil]
#243018 - 25/02/14 08:13 AM

Quote:

I have always found that it takes longer to try and fiddle around dropping a round into the chamber than it does to press it into the magazine, especially if the magazine and follower are working properly.

+1

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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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Viking338
.333 member

Reged: 11/08/11
Posts: 480
Loc: Queensland Australia

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: Dumprat]
#243019 - 25/02/14 08:19 AM

Quote:

^yes that is exactly what I am talking about. The 35 doesn't have enough shoulder to keep the case from being shoved in too far.

And yes some tenths of second count. I had an isrelei 308 that worked great for single loading. Just drop it in the hole and slam the bolt closed.

Hmmm I have a 9.5x57 (.375) also which I didn't mention before as I am still fire forming cases for it. But the shoulders really sharpen up and the taper in the case gets blown out so I guess you could say it almost ends up with an Ackley shape to it. I wouldn't think I could shove the shoulder back "slam feeding" it but I haven't tried yet so don't want to comment. But I will be sending it off to get the extractor polished in the hope it will close over a round dropped in as I also get the bolt hold open ground off the magazine follower for this reason. Mainly shoot multiple pigs in mobs so quite often looking for a quick "parting shot" haha
Please let us know how you go, I love to learn more and I do love my 338.06 and don't think it would disappoint you although not many Bears "Down Under"

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Viking338
.333 member

Reged: 11/08/11
Posts: 480
Loc: Queensland Australia

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: Igorrock]
#243020 - 25/02/14 08:34 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I have always found that it takes longer to try and fiddle around dropping a round into the chamber than it does to press it into the magazine, especially if the magazine and follower are working properly.

+1

P.S. I must add I do this a lot too, but mostly when I am running to a new shooting position to cut off a mob of retreating pigs.
Just like my Mausers to do both I guess depends on the situation, if I have the time while moving I will feed two or three rounds in rather that just drop one in. Usually do this after only a couple of shots anyway as I don't like to run dry, don't see to many single pigs where I shoot (must be a bad habit from all my IPSC shooting haha)

Like I said thanks for the post always like to learn new things and look forward to hearing what you decide and seeing some photo's

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Dumprat
.300 member

Reged: 20/02/14
Posts: 205
Loc: Vancouver island bc.

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: Viking338]
#243021 - 25/02/14 09:30 AM

I will certainly post some pics once I start fooling with the rifle.

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LesLeeSpeed
.300 member

Reged: 14/11/13
Posts: 223
Loc: Queensland Australia

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: Viking338]
#243022 - 25/02/14 09:31 AM

Hi Dumprat,
I still think your loading problem is a gunsmithing one rather than a cartridge shape one. Calibres larger than 35 have been successfully built on mauser actions and 3006 or 8mm rounds. Another option would be to go to 35 Whelan Ackley Improved. This will sharpen the shoulder up and still give you the option of using factory 35 Whelan ammo if neccessary.
Regards
LesLeeSpeed

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Dumprat
.300 member

Reged: 20/02/14
Posts: 205
Loc: Vancouver island bc.

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: LesLeeSpeed]
#243026 - 25/02/14 10:18 AM

The gunsmith who did the chamber is very familiar with the 35 whelen. He has seen it before. I am thinking of the 338-06 to eliminate this problem. I am not fond of wildcat cartidges, as much as they may be better in some regards their lack of commonality is not worth it in my opinion.

I was more interested in other possible factory options rather than the rethinking the 35 to any degree.

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Igorrock
.400 member

Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1649
Loc: Finland

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: Dumprat]
#243040 - 25/02/14 09:39 PM

Quote:

The gunsmith who did the chamber is very familiar with the 35 whelen. He has seen it before.

Being familiar with .35 Whelen is not enough if yours gunsmith is not familiar how to make m98 Mauser action to feed ammo correct. It´s a special work and needs some knowledge and experience.

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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: Igorrock]
#243042 - 25/02/14 10:59 PM

The best American cartridge for a standard-length Mauser IMHO is the .416 Taylor. I could go to great lengths to explain, but those who own or have used one will know what I'm talking about.
That cartridge just works!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Dumprat
.300 member

Reged: 20/02/14
Posts: 205
Loc: Vancouver island bc.

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: Marrakai]
#243043 - 26/02/14 01:22 AM

The .416 is a belted case though. Good cartridge though. My father had one in a browning safari. Pleasant to shoot comparatively speaking.

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: Dumprat]
#243073 - 27/02/14 12:32 AM

Quote:

The .416 is a belted case though.

Dumprat:
You make that sound like its a bad thing!
Nothing could be further from the truth.
No headspace problems, looong case life, 3 down and one in the chamber with the standard magazine. What's not to like?

Belted cases are great IMHO. No-one would kick the .375 H&H out of bed for farting, if you will forgive the colonial euphemism.
Or the .458, .338, .300 WinMag for that matter.
Just my opinion of course, but tempered somewhat by experience....

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Dumprat
.300 member

Reged: 20/02/14
Posts: 205
Loc: Vancouver island bc.

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: Marrakai]
#243075 - 27/02/14 01:53 AM

No not a bad thing I suppose. Just don't feel like fooling with the magazine to make a belted case feed properly. Get it even a little bit off and the action is junk. I agree with you the the 416 is a worthy cartridge but not necessary in NA.

I guess narrowing my parameters might help. Common ammo. This leaves 9.3x62 etc out of the picture. No belted case. So what does this leave in a near magnum performance? Not a hell of a lot I suppose.

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hunter_angler
.300 member

Reged: 24/03/10
Posts: 104
Loc: Grand Marais, Michigan (home i...

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: Dumprat]
#243076 - 27/02/14 02:36 AM

Could the newer .375 or .416 Ruger be made to work? Standard length, no belt, lotsa oomph.

--------------------
Semper Paratus

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Chavez
.224 member

Reged: 31/10/13
Posts: 25
Loc: Kentucky

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: hunter_angler]
#244369 - 25/03/14 07:38 AM

9.3x62 , original for the 98

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Dumprat
.300 member

Reged: 20/02/14
Posts: 205
Loc: Vancouver island bc.

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: Chavez]
#244371 - 25/03/14 09:32 AM

when have you ever been to a local gun shop and found that ammo? Never I'll bet.

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Chavez
.224 member

Reged: 31/10/13
Posts: 25
Loc: Kentucky

Re: North American Mauser cartridge? [Re: Dumprat]
#244373 - 25/03/14 11:51 AM

You can now its very common even in ky! If its here it everywhere.

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