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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Recoil question
      #24221 - 16/01/05 12:16 AM

Can recoil hurt your eyes?I shot yesterday and my right eye hemmoraged/bloody mess.I dont know if it was like that before i shot or if the recoil done it as it did not hurt.I shot and reloaded a lot of ammo and was really having a fun time till I looked in the mirror and saw my eye.The rifle was a 458wm kicking around 30#maybe a little more.Could gas have come back in my eye or a partical of brass or something?I would have thought i would feel blowback gases?.I just couldnt believe that my eye let go like that.Maybe shes just getting old like me? I feel leary about shooting the 458 now??Anyone have a similiar experience or everhear anything similiar maybe from trap shooters?I may have to just shoot 22s!!

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vapodog
.300 member


Reged: 28/12/04
Posts: 237
Loc: Nebraska USA
Re: Recoil question [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #24238 - 16/01/05 07:08 AM

In reply to:

Can recoil hurt your eyes?I


Yes
The pure jar of the gun can, on occasion, cause things to come apart that might have been doing so naturally.

I've gone home from heavy shooting with sore teeth as well.

See an eye doctor and get a professional opinion....it's a very cheap bit of advice and might save your sight.

--------------------

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Recoil question [Re: vapodog]
      #24240 - 16/01/05 07:58 AM

Heavy recoil can cause detached retinas. Some symptoms reported are a bright "flash" seen by the eyes durring recoil.

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EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: Recoil question [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #24241 - 16/01/05 08:02 AM

Get your eyes checked. It's better to be safe than sorry when it comes to vision IMO...

Erik

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Recoil question [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #24243 - 16/01/05 08:40 AM

blackbearhunter

I would follow the others advice and see an eye doctor asap. It has been known for detached retinas to occur.

I have never had bloddy eyes but can believe it happens - a sore head / headache from shooting too many
bigger calibres on one day used to occur. Also damage to the shoulder / muscles (can anyone expand on this ?

I also broke a tooth from one of my 500 Nitro's that has a thinner than normal stock (I like them big and fat
so I have something to hold onto) plus I obviously didn't have it in the right place and it kicked up on recoil.

If any of you get a chance, take a video of you shooting a bigger calibre as a friend of mine did and then play
it back in slow motion - it is a real eye opener as to how your shoulder gets pushed back and then your head flicks
like it has been hit by a boxer.

500 Nitro

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AussieMike
.300 member


Reged: 01/09/04
Posts: 236
Loc: Southern Tablelands, NSW, Aust...
Re: Recoil question [Re: 500Nitro]
      #24285 - 16/01/05 06:44 PM

Sounds like a subconjunctival haemorrhage - one of the small vessels in the eye bursts and the blood spreads out between the sclera (white part) and the conjunctival membrane which attaches around the cornea so vision isn't effected. Common causes are coughing and vomiting ie increasing pressure in the chest and therefore in veins. It often occurs without any cause at all but, in cases of head trauma can indicate a fractured base of skull so a medical examination is essential in these cases. I'd see a doctor anyway.

You'll have some interesting colour changes in that eye over the next few days.

500Nitro is right about detached retinas and also discs between the cervical vertebrae can be damaged - I had a disc slip and press on the nerves to my left arm when my 470 doubled on a cape buffalo. And, I suppose you've read the story of a small (around 10 years od) boy who was killed when he was allowed to shoot a 454 handgun which hit him in the head during recoil.

mike

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mikeh416Rigby
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Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 6051
Loc: The beautiful Oley Valley, PA....
Re: Recoil question [Re: AussieMike]
      #24308 - 17/01/05 02:29 AM

I have to take Coumadin (Warfarin) due to a genetic clotting disorder. The medication prevents blood clots from forming, and as a result I'm more prone to bleeding than most people. I've had small blood vessels in my eyes rupture on several occasions, due to coughing, or sneezing violently. It looks ugly, and after a couple of days you'll probably look like you went 10 rounds with a heavyweight prize fighter. The white of the eye turns bright red, and then eventually turns yellowish as the blood gets absorbed back into the body. It's generally painless, but you do need to get it looked at.

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AussieMike
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Reged: 01/09/04
Posts: 236
Loc: Southern Tablelands, NSW, Aust...
Re: Recoil question [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
      #24360 - 17/01/05 02:57 PM

This thread has made me wonder what the recoil is doing to our brains - I wonder if we may eventually develop the problems that boxers get.

It would be interesting to look at ways of reducing the risk (apart from not shooting big guns, which is really not possible). I may try and video shooting with and without a shot bag between the butt and shoulder and see if it results in less and/or slower head movements.

mike

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mikeh416Rigby
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Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 6051
Loc: The beautiful Oley Valley, PA....
Re: Recoil question [Re: AussieMike]
      #24366 - 17/01/05 03:19 PM

Mike, it's been documented that shooting big bores can give one a mild concussion. The shot bag really does help minimize the brain slamming against the inner skull.

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AussieMike
.300 member


Reged: 01/09/04
Posts: 236
Loc: Southern Tablelands, NSW, Aust...
Re: Recoil question [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
      #24380 - 17/01/05 08:20 PM

That's a bit worrying - in Oz they recommend football players who are concussed should not play for several weeks and I understand that there is evidence that even a relatively small number of episodes of concussion can result in cognitive deficit (ie brain not working as well as it should.

I just did a quick search in a medical database and found no journal articles on recoli and brain damage, dementia or cognitive deficit. I did find a German article which demonstrated that if you shoot yourself by putting the barrel in your mouth you will damage your dentures and a description of the death of someone who fired a 45ACP cartidge in a tear gas pen and had the pen penetrate his skull.

mike

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ATHiker07
.275 member


Reged: 10/12/04
Posts: 51
Loc: Florida
Re: Recoil question [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #24395 - 18/01/05 01:53 AM

Blackbearhunter,
I would get a checkup immediately. The Hyphema you described could have come from stiff recoil with a pre-existing weak vessel. However, I would be far more concerned with potential underlying hypertension. If the problem occurred unrelated to the recoil or only incidently due to it, you could be looking at increased risk of a stroke. I would call my physician today.

--------------------
Take a child hunting, they are the future of our sport!

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Recoil question [Re: ATHiker07]
      #24430 - 18/01/05 10:09 AM

I want to thank everyone for there help and concern.I saw the eye doctor today and he said it was from the recoil.I will be allright and my eye will turn yellow for a while but should recover.He said it-recoil- was just like takeing a punch boxing and that I should not shoot that heavy a recoiling rifle any more.I can shoot less recoiling rifles in about 2 weeks if it clears up back to normal.I had fired about 9 rounds total and it let go on number 7.Isaw red for a second and shook my head and quit for a little while then shot 2 more rounds not knowing my eye was bleeding.It really looks bad and has been burning alot.I have shot a 375H&H for about 5years and a 338wm for about 12yrs.After this iam worried,The 458 didnt feel as hard a kick as the 375H&H.Maybe I willjust stick to the 7mag.& 30-06 from here on out.I love my vision and whats left of it and really dont want any troubles with my eyes.I may just shoot my 308 & 270 for awhile.270cal. is about as low as i go in power anyway and really like the old round as well as everyone else does.7x57 is pretty mild also..
Anyway thanks again Brothers!!!

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**DONOTDELETE**





Re: Recoil question [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #24460 - 18/01/05 02:22 PM

I have been using a bag of lead shot for about the last 10 years or so and on the bench I use it for any calibre, even a 243.

The leather bag has about 15 pounds of lead and it about 2/3rds fills the bag. I sit the bag on a flat sand back that is behind the butt. The butt of the gun is resting against the top 1/3rd or so of the bag so length of pull is not much different.

Once you get use to the bag it is very easy to use and I can even set up to use it across the bonnet of the car. Point of impact is basically the same with and without the bag.

My problem was my neck and it was caused by doing a lot of shooting with both 300 Win and 375 from both the bench and across bags on the bonnet of the car and using a loose hold.

A poster on AR, John S, has a strap that goes around the butt and a section over the top so it does not fall down. Either end of the strap is attached to bags of lead shot.

I also have another lead bag of shot which is much bigger and weighs about 50 pounds. If I use this bag I more or less put my arm pit over the top of the bag. With this one you don't feel a thing and can shoot a 375 or 458 until the barrel melts.

Wish I had started doing it 20 years ago.

If you do a lot of big bore shooting I think the people that have to be careful are those who are not bothered by the recoil. I was like that but it comes against you simply because you can fire so many shots. On the other hand my best shooting mate really feels recoil badly. He does not flinch and can shoot a bigger gun but it just plain hurts him. Probably to do with the shape of is shoulder or whatever. In his case this is good because he can never damage himself since he is so limited in the number of shots he can fire.

Mike

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mikeh416Rigby
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Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 6051
Loc: The beautiful Oley Valley, PA....
Re: Recoil question [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #24465 - 18/01/05 02:57 PM

Glad you're going to be OK. Consider getting your heavy kickers fitted with mercury filled recoil suppressors. The really do help. I personally hate them, but muzzle breaks can help too.

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ATHiker07
.275 member


Reged: 10/12/04
Posts: 51
Loc: Florida
Re: Recoil question [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
      #24522 - 19/01/05 08:18 AM

Problem with the muzzle break is that he would then trade blindness for deafness...

--------------------
Take a child hunting, they are the future of our sport!

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Bigfive
Sponsor


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 362
Loc: Freestate,South-Africa
Re: Recoil question [Re: ATHiker07]
      #24669 - 20/01/05 05:56 PM

I had a broken nose due to recoil and a bruised jawbone.Possible the recoil yes!!!.I shoot a 460wby mag wich is one of the big kickers.Mine was an ex .458BRNO so you'll know that it is not one of the heaviest rifles on the market.I used to shoot it a lot and was comfortable with the rifle and I never developed a flinch.I just took it as it came.Then I had a recoil compensator fitted in the stock and some lead shafts to give it a extra bit of weight and a muzzlebreak.Now my little brother in law who is 13 years old siton the bench rest and take 3-4 consecutive shots.It is now in the same recoil class as a .375 H&H.
Make the gun as comfortable as possible and you'll feel better about it and shoot better.
Oh sorry another thing that a lot of people forget is the cheeck piece on your stock.If it fit you perfectly the rifle can't hurt you.Go to a professional stock maker and get some advice.IT WORK!!!!!!

--------------------
"Hunting is a way of life"
Bigfive,South Africa

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Recoil question [Re: Bigfive]
      #24680 - 21/01/05 12:47 AM

Thanks for responing big five,I thought about you and that 460weatherly!I think i was having to really laydown on that stock to see the iron sights and the vibration just went streight up my head to my eye!I have looked and shouldered the rifle several times trying to determine the cause and found i was really laying on that stock bad to see the sights!Guess i gotta big head! Those rifles are light too.Iam going to install a mercury recoilreducer weight in my 375H&H and let that be it,you guys have talked me into that pretty easy-No muzzle brake.My ear would explode next!
allways been comfortable with my 375 and will just wait awhile for my eye to get back 100% before shooting again.
I think if i had a scope on the old rifle my head would have been higher off that stock a lot better.Thats a good plus for scopes!Anyway iam a firm believer in big guns for dangerous game that also bite back and allways feel a lot better with my 375H&H when iam alone in a mountain laurel or palmetto thicket miles from anyone bear & hog hunting at bayonet range,which i allways find myself lost in!
I feel a big rifle is a great insurance policy and could save your life or your friends!And could be worth its weight in gold at the right tight spot! : Plus they are fun/hoot to shoot for grins and giggles!
I hope my bad experince will/can help someone else and by shareing it we can all learn something good.Cheers and tightlines&bullseyes,blonds-brunets& redheads to all!

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BigRx
.224 member


Reged: 26/12/04
Posts: 24
Loc: Idaho
Re: Recoil question [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #24693 - 21/01/05 03:01 AM

Blackbearhunter, how is your blood pressure?

The reason I ask is that I've had the eye hemorrhage several times in the past. Not from recoil, but from splitting wood; one time from tight lug nuts on my truck. Finally went to the eye doctor and he took my blood pressure. I was in the 90's for the bottom number. He told me strain and elevated BP could cause the problem. I went on BP medicine and so far it hasn't happened again. Just a thought to look at........

BigRx

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Recoil question [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #24694 - 21/01/05 03:19 AM

Hey blackbear,

Do you still have the 30-06 merkel DR?

B.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Recoil question [Re: bonanza]
      #24700 - 21/01/05 04:31 AM

Hey Bonanza,Yes i still got the old girl,i gotta reloading outfit put together and will start working on regulating that baby before long!
Doc said i gotta heal up for awhile before i shoot.I look like i been in a 3-way fight and come in 3rd.right now!
i got some 180gr.sierra RN.and 220gr.RN & 180gr.speer grandslams for starters.Iam going to do like you have done and try everything under the sun!Its so much fun to play with i have actually gotton it so hot it didnt want to open!I learned on here not to do that but you know how it gets in the heat of battle!
Congrateulations on your new 470 double express member of the family!
I bet that dog gone thang is Hell On Wheels!
I think they will get my double when they have to pry my cold fingers from it!
Whiskey,Blonds & redheads for the Nitro Express gang,Beer for the Dogs& horses!

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Recoil question [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #24712 - 21/01/05 05:40 AM

I bet that 30-06 is a joy to shoot. I've loaded my 470 with 375Gr. hardcast for fun shooting - recoils about the same as a 375 H&H. Would be perfect for Black Bear hunting! Take care. I'm trying to set up a DR shoot on March 5, hope you can come.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Recoil question [Re: bonanza]
      #24715 - 21/01/05 06:52 AM

Hey bonanza,i will try to make it,sounds like big medicine fun,send me a PM on the directions and a number i can call if i get lost up there in those big woods!
Hey since iam shooting a little ole o6 and iam bout blind in one/best eye,you guys gonna let me shoot up real close right!
Yaw wont wupp up on me to bad right,since iam from Ga. and kin to the Great General Robert E.Lee and all right! I gotta watch you south carolina swamp runners! Palmetto Rangers!
Gotta see if i can find my map!
Hey the old timer in the old worn out van thats got all those super doubles gonna be there too?How far from the Ga. line is the range?Will it be double rifle only?See ya and thanks for the invite!Sounds like fun to me!Wives & kids gonna be there too or just the guys day out?
Thanks again!

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Recoil question [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #24721 - 21/01/05 07:41 AM

The range is just outside of Charlotte NC, So it's not far from where you live. I'm going to post it in the news letter so the DR owning club members will come out. I know there are a few DR owners, some with "fancy" guns. You know, purdys and such!

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Recoil question [Re: bonanza]
      #24797 - 22/01/05 12:32 AM

Hey bigRx,thanks for the help.I have been on blood pressure medicine for years.It has been a little high lately and i thought about that could have had a lot to do with it also.Everyone has just gotton over the flu and my sinitus has had lots pressure and i may have a ear infection on that side as well.I never thought about my eye popping but with all that going on plus the 458,Dang I can see why now!The ear is the same side as my eye!Oh well live and learn,I just have to allways learn the hard way!Hell on my best day I can jump in a rose bush and come out smelling like shit!Wouldnt want it any other way !Thanks Friends!!!

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Recoil question [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #24824 - 22/01/05 08:17 AM

While were on the subject,Can recoil hurt your shoulder?I remember as a lad seeing the older men shoot till there shoulder was pretty much black/purple.I have shot enough rounds at one time were my shoulder was a little bruised or blue but dang never solid blue.I got smart and gotta past recoil pad if iam going to shoot a lot of rounds at once.Allways seemed to me that bird/dove hunters on a hot field would also pay for all that shooting.I did hear a friend tell he had shoulder surgery because of his .500A-square! And those lite weight mountain rifles barrel whip back like the devil when you touch one off.Whats the worse recoil rifle you guys got into?I always remember my cousins 12ga.H&R singleshot with slugs!Man that sucker would pound you !

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