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TOBY458
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Loc: Georgia, USA
Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan?
      #241284 - 27/01/14 02:34 PM

I am thinking of booking a Safari with Mark Sullivan. Have any of you hunted with him? I have no problem with his style of hunting. I would just like to know how he is as a PH. I've spoken with him, and he seems personable.

Edited by TOBY458 (27/01/14 03:43 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: TOBY458]
      #241288 - 27/01/14 04:04 PM

Toby,

On most forums you would get loads of posts attacking the man, all by people that have just watched his videos.

Never hunted with the man myself. Did meet him at the Heym Challenge Shoot last year in Germany.

As for him as a PH, all the people that I have talked to, or have written about their hunts were happy about it.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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mikeh416Rigby
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: NitroX]
      #241324 - 28/01/14 04:38 AM

I've not hunted with Mark, but if I had the funds would do so without hesitation. I've spoken face to face with Mark on at least half a dozen occasions, and yes, he is opinionated and somewhat full of himself, BUT....the man delivers. He knows his craft as well as any PH I've met over the years. He does catch a lot of flack, but I've noticed that none of his detractors have ever hunted with him. Those people who have hunted with him have nothing but the highest praise for him.

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TOBY458
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
      #241330 - 28/01/14 04:59 AM

That's the impression I get from him. He is full of himself on the movies, but I just laugh at that and go on watching. I know some people are turned off by his movies, but I don't really see that he is any more unethical than any other PH. He just shows all aspects of the hunt, which some choose to edit out. I have spoken with a couple guys that hunted with him, and they say he is top notch. I think he may back up the hunter a little to soon sometimes, but I'm sure that's mostly when the camera is rolling. In the end, I want my moneys worth on a hunt since I will probably only get to go once.

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DarylS
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: TOBY458]
      #241339 - 28/01/14 09:09 AM

It is good to hear 'the other side of this story' - for a change. Often, all we hear is negative - opinions based on hearsay or mere observation of a short video clip & from that input, some - probably me too, are quick to add our own displeasure without any concrete proof of misadventure.
If he was as bad as suggested by some, I seriously doubt be in still be in business.
I've been on the "should I shoot now to backup my hunter, or let him sort it out himself" scenario myself - but not with dangerous game.

Having a charge occurr after the initial shot, would be an interesting position to be in - trust the hunter (whom you've just met) to save both your lives - or not - Hmmmm?

Thanks Mike and John.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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TOBY458
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: DarylS]
      #241342 - 28/01/14 11:40 AM

I totally agree that any back up is welcome on a charge situation. I would just prefer to do all the shooting on my animal if at all possible. I would never feel right about a once in a lifetime hunt, having someone else shoot every animal right on top of my shot. But that's just me. And I'm sure it would be different off camera. He may even have them agree to it just so they can have their hunts on his movies. At any rate I'm sure most hunters would feel like I do when it comes to immediate back up shots. All that said, I still am very much considering booking a hunt with Mark. In fact I had one booked with him several years ago, and had to back out. I just want a lot of bang for my buck.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: TOBY458]
      #241357 - 28/01/14 03:59 PM

One of Mark's problems is in a crowd especially at a convention or show, is he is a little bit "full of himself" and trying to be the "centre of attention". Trying to be polite in the way I say it. I think this also turns a lot of people off. It does get a bit too much sometimes.

However I believe in a safari camp the guy would probably be a lot different and much more personable. As long as no video cameras are running at the time. Certainly when having dinner with Mark and other Heym guests at the Shoot, Mark was as personable as anyone else and easily conversed with.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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eagle27
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
      #241364 - 28/01/14 05:39 PM

Quote:

I've not hunted with Mark, but if I had the funds would do so without hesitation. I've spoken face to face with Mark on at least half a dozen occasions, and yes, he is opinionated and somewhat full of himself, BUT....the man delivers. He knows his craft as well as any PH I've met over the years. He does catch a lot of flack, but I've noticed that none of his detractors have ever hunted with him. Those people who have hunted with him have nothing but the highest praise for him.




One could observe that perhaps those who choose to hunt with MS have done so because they look for the gung ho in your face sort of experience either because they may have those tendencies themselves or maybe the opposite end of the spectrum, in need of a boost to their own self esteem. Of course those that choose to go hunt with Mark are not going to have anything but the highest praise for him, they would not go if not.

Nobody including myself would deny that MS does not have the skills to find and hunt animals, but like some I have meet over the years in my hunting travels, that style of in your face behaviour does not sit right with me and silly mannerisms such as trying to put a human side to a wounded animal in "giving them a choice as to how they want to die" puts me off a person bloody quick. As some have pointed out in the many posts about Mark, if he wants a human bravery side to his life and wants to live it on the edge then go to Afghanistan and say it to an armed Taliban fighter instead of goading a wounded animal in pain and fear into making a choice that it has no concept of.

Sure I have never met or spoken with the man, but the posturing stances, actions and words in the many photos and some video clips I've seen of Mark convinces me that I would be well out of my comfort zone with him. Just not my scene, never has been and never will.


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mikeh416Rigby
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: eagle27]
      #241379 - 29/01/14 02:22 AM

eagle27...a professional in front of a movie camera is an actor. An actor can play a bad guy, drug addict, cop killer, kidnapper, etc. for the movie. That doesn't make the actor one of the above in real life. Having met Mark and spoken to him one on one, I believe the same holds true for him. In front of the camera he portrays one persona, but in real life he's completely different.

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eagle27
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
      #241391 - 29/01/14 05:02 AM

Quote:

eagle27...a professional in front of a movie camera is an actor. An actor can play a bad guy, drug addict, cop killer, kidnapper, etc. for the movie. That doesn't make the actor one of the above in real life. Having met Mark and spoken to him one on one, I believe the same holds true for him. In front of the camera he portrays one persona, but in real life he's completely different.




Agree to some extent as there are obviously many actors and actresses who are genuinely nice people when off camera and out of characters they portray but there are many many more who are clearly not, they maybe amongst their fawning followers and fellow colleagues but for the average person in life many live their lives, or attempt to live them, similar to many of the characters they play.

Of course with MS it is the 'on camera' persona that is the issue because that is the person who is the PH for those that choose to hunt with him. What he is like away from the hunt and off camera is irrelevant in this case.


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TOBY458
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: eagle27]
      #241395 - 29/01/14 08:24 AM

I really don't think that's the case either. The guy I spoke with that had hunted with him several times, told me that he was a joy to hunt with, and he was able to take many good animals with him. I think if you overlook the bs and look at the actual hunts, he isn't really that much different than a lot of PH's. He just has a lot more courage than most people are willing to follow. I've seen many African hunts where the clients are obviously scared to even be around a buffalo, much less follow a wounded one. And the part about him hunting Hippo on dry ground, that seems to me to be the only way to do that, that even resembles a real hunt. Shooting them in the head while they float in a river is about as "non hunt" as you can get. But that seems to be the norm with most safaris I've seen on TV, at least. So I really don't get the unethical part that everyone speaks of. How is following a buffalo right away, and killing him sooner than later, unethical? I think waiting around a half hour to let him "stiffen" is more unethical. But on the other hand, it is the PH's responsibility to keep the client safe as well. I guess in the end, I'm just trying to see the other side of the coin that most people don't care to look for....

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HuntingSchneider
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: TOBY458]
      #241410 - 29/01/14 01:09 PM


Personally I think he is an obnoxious boofhead and I'd set fire to my money rather than to give it to him.


.

--------------------
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Claydog
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: HuntingSchneider]
      #241411 - 29/01/14 02:12 PM

I have avoided saying anything as I have not hunted with the guy but I could never hunt with a PH who seems to put his own interests ahead of his clients and the hunting ethics I hold dear.

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TOBY458
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: Claydog]
      #241413 - 29/01/14 02:42 PM

I started the thread to get comments from people who had actually hunted with Mark. But everyone is entitled to his opinion. To the two comments above, I would think that maybe you should hold the negative comments, unless you actually have had a bad experience hunting with Mark yourselves. Your opinions may indeed be true, but the proof isn't there in my opinion and the others I've spoken with who have actually hunted with him. I hope he doesn't prove me wrong, if I decide to book with him....:)

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Claydog
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: TOBY458]
      #241414 - 29/01/14 02:53 PM

Toby
I would love to hear comments from anyone on the forum who has hunted with him also.


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HuntingSchneider
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: TOBY458]
      #241417 - 29/01/14 03:21 PM

Quote:

I started the thread to get comments from people who had actually hunted with Mark. But everyone is entitled to his opinion. To the two comments above, I would think that maybe you should hold the negative comments, unless you actually have had a bad experience hunting with Mark yourselves. Your opinions may indeed be true, but the proof isn't there in my opinion and the others I've spoken with who have actually hunted with him. I hope he doesn't prove me wrong, if I decide to book with him....:)




I believe that anybody who promotes himself as a load mouthed, obnoxious tosser has earned to right to be called such.



.

--------------------
Liberals, stealing firearms since '96.
Steal one firearm, you're a thief. Steal a million, you're a Prime Minister.


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eagle27
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: Claydog]
      #241418 - 29/01/14 03:36 PM

Quote:

Toby
I would love to hear comments from anyone on the forum who has hunted with him also.




Admittedly that is the question of the first poster but then what are you expecting. There is enough 'evidence' around that proves that Mark is a very good PH in terms of finding, stalking and shooting good animals and is also apparently a good host when on safari for his knowledge and conversation. No-one who knows a bit about him and makes the choice to hunt with him would likely come away disappointed.

Only someone who booked a hunt and knew absolutely nothing about him and who, like myself and others find that in your face - look at me behaviour not to their liking, would come away with negative feelings.

So the original question will only ever give you positive feedback from those that have hunted with Mark and negative from those who have avoided hunting with him because thay have made a valid judgement on his personality and style. Mark chooses to publish his photos and videos invariably showing him and only him in the picture doing his thing and then wonders why he polarises opinion.

We don't all have to hold a stick of dynamite in our hand with a burning fuse and wait for the bang to know what is going to happen. A huge percentage of our learning and judgement is made on observation, reading, and logical thought (something most humans are blessed with) so to those that say you have to experience something before you can make a judgement just does not hold water.

I have met some very talented sports people and artists in various arenas and most, not all, are nice enough people outside of their chosen occupation, but their egos, tantrums, demands and look at me's take over when get into 'character'. I prefer to avoid this group of people and have no wish to fawn and adore and bolster their egos anymore than they already are.

So no I would not hunt with Mark and that is a perfectly valid decision for me to make without having to experience him. As to those that do and enjoy, that is also perfectly valid and obviously they get something from that. Mark will never be to everyones taste whereas most low key PH's who give a good solid and successful safari will satisfy everyone.

Edited by eagle27 (29/01/14 03:38 PM)


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TOBY458
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: eagle27]
      #241419 - 29/01/14 04:31 PM

I guess in this case, at least you do know what to expect from MS. Other PH's who are less known would take more research I suppose. I've been burned on other hunts in the USA from not knowing enough about the guide. Of course that was in the pre internet days, which for me is pre 2008. haha!
In the end, I just want an exciting, successful hunt. And the idea of being able to take two buffalo in Tanzania VS only one buffalo elsewhere, makes me want to hunt there. And Mark seems to be the best thing going there.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: eagle27]
      #241432 - 29/01/14 05:57 PM

Quote:

One could observe that perhaps those who choose to hunt with MS have done so because they look for the gung ho in your face sort of experience either because they may have those tendencies themselves or maybe the opposite end of the spectrum, in need of a boost to their own self esteem. Of course those that choose to go hunt with Mark are not going to have anything but the highest praise for him, they would not go if not.




So these clients are not able to comment negatively AFTER a safari if it doesn't go well? Bullshit.

"in need of a boost to their own self esteem"
Quite some insulting comments to clients of his who you also have never met. IMO. In fact some of those sorts of comments sound like the classic greenie comments that hunters are only looking to "boost their self esteem" and "make up for their own inadequacies". Especially when it comes to dangerous game hunting,

Quote:

Sure I have never met or spoken with the man, but the posturing stances, actions and words in the many photos and some video clips I've seen of Mark convinces me that I would be well out of my comfort zone with him. Just not my scene, never has been and never will.




Lots of outfitters to choose from. Myself I also would choose elsewhere if booking a hunt for several reasons.

Quote:

Of course with MS it is the 'on camera' persona that is the issue because that is the person who is the PH for those that choose to hunt with him. What he is like away from the hunt and off camera is irrelevant in this case.




This is also rubbish. By far not every safari is videoed for DVD's and the person in front of a camera for DVD dramatisation is not necessary the same person away from it.



Claydog: The late Allen Day was a member here years ago but is now deceased. He is in one of MS's early videos, or many two videos and he never had anything bad to say, and that MS never shot any of his animals for him. A couple of other members over the years have also commented, and on other forums to date I have never read any bad from an actual client. I have also spoken to maybe a couple of clients over the years. But YES it would be good for any actual clients to speak up with GOOD or BAD comments.


Quote:

TOBY: So I really don't get the unethical part that everyone speaks of. How is following a buffalo right away, and killing him sooner than later, unethical? I think waiting around a half hour to let him "stiffen" is more unethical. But on the other hand, it is the PH's responsibility to keep the client safe as well.




The unethical part comes from others usually competitors on internet forums claiming MS shoots buffalo in the gut and also leaves lots of wounded buffalo in the field after his safaris. These claims are never substantiated or have first hand commenters. Always, "I heard that MS ...".

And it is not necessary to shoot cape buffalo in the gut for them to live long enough to induce charges. A lung shot if followed up quickly and if the animal is approached face on, may cause a charge. The usual practice of a half hour to "stiffen up" may mean the animal bleeds out or is weak. And the usual practice is to approach a downed cape buffalo from behind and downwind so it neither sees or smells the approach.


Someone also mentioned not knowing about other PHs / Outfitters when they book with them as they are less known.

This is 100% true. An example:

I hunted with one PH who repeatedly made comments like "Pity you don't own a Lear Jet, so we could jet off for a few hours somewhere on a beach ...". Many comments, obviously he only wants billionaire clients ... I ask a lot of questions before booking a hunt. This immature (adult) PH made a pre-conception "That I was going to be a difficult client" because I had asked so many questions, and told me so on the drive to the concession. I told him after a safari was booked and when on safari I was very easy going, and he had to admit that at the end, after the safari ended in a complete fuck up, ie warvet invasion. When I wounded a zebra after a few hours he started to harass me saying if we kept "wasting time following this zebra, you won't fill out your trophy bag and will complain later!" Obviously a "full trophy bag" and especially the FEES to him were important to him, but not to me at all. I had no intention of a "full trophy bag", and also wanted to kill the wounded zebra. Unethical PH, eh, by the standards used to attack MS. This PH has a good name among the prestigious outfitters btw. Oh and he also physically threatened me during the safari, due to his immaturity and paranoia. A lot of PHs get very paranoid if you take notes, as they think it will be used against them ... I take notes for stories, articles, and personal history ...

Could mention other PH experiences ...

Toby, good luck with your safari. Hope it works out well if you book with MS or anyone else, and hope you tell us about it here, photos etc. Good hunting.





Finally, decided to add, I could have emulated MS one time when hunting a scrub bull in Arnhemland. I had shot the bull with a too long flanking shot from behind, too much bone, muscle, gut to really get to the vitals. A .450 NE 480 gr RNSP. As it turned I shot in in the chest/lungs witht he second barrel. The bull on being hit came running down the hill looking for me. I hid behind a tree and reloaded one barrel, peeked around the tree and gave it a good shot to the shoulder/chest which blew a large blood vapour cloud from its wounded and mouth into the air and it dropped.

Now I could have stepped around the tree so it could see me, and maybe would charge me from 20 yards. A video camera was running (I hope?! Never viewed the film!) and it could have made an excellent charge video. And tested me out as to whether I could drop it or not! But I wisely chose discretion and shot it from hiding and killed it dead.

I still wonder if I would choose to induce a charge or not. I both would like one and also dislike them if thinking in advance. Like most hunters.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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TOBY458
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: NitroX]
      #241455 - 30/01/14 03:18 AM

I would say that inducing a charge would seem like a great idea if you lived to tell the tale. Maybe not such a good idea if you got hammered! I have been around cattle most of my life, and have been "charged" by cows while I was hunting deer near a pasture. I never felt that I was in real danger when I had a rifle in my hand. And I doubt that all charges would end in death anyway, even with cape buffalo. But I wouldn't want to find out first hand!

On another note,I've seen too many large animals killed with a 22lr from a brain shot, to buy into "needing" a 600 nitro to stop a charge. I would think a 308 that you can shoot accurately, while under pressure, would be a better gun for the situation than a large double that's hard to handle, and shoot accurately. So, I get tickled when I hear people scoff at the notion of using a 375 on buffalo. I know a larger caliber would kill quicker on a chest shot, or marginal shot of any kind, but I seriously doubt that you could tell the difference with a head shot. When his eyes bulge out of his skull, I'd say that's enough gun! But that doesn't stop me from wanting a double rifle. I mean I REALLY want a double! But I may have to choose to hunt over buying another rifle.
And I suspect that me and my 375 will do just fine.

If I do decide to book with Mark I'll definitely give you full details and pictures. And I'd love to do a Buff hunt in Australia, if you know any good outfitters there. That is my reason for joining these forums. I would like to be able to do a hunt with a like minded person, and have someone that I at least sort of know to travel with. Travelling that far seems a little intimidating by yourself. In fact that worries me far more than the thought of a buffalo charge....:)

Edited by TOBY458 (30/01/14 03:28 AM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: TOBY458]
      #241459 - 30/01/14 04:55 AM

Toby,

I agree the legal minimum calibres aren't always needed, but sometimes they are.

Regarding a buffaloes skull being similar to a cow's, I suggest you check out Mark Sullivan's first video - "Africa's Black Death" - which started his video "success". He shoots a cape buffalo during a charge in the head, only just missing the brain, the bull hardly notices it, and the second barrel's bullet finally striking the brain, with MS having to jump out of the way to avoid the bull falling on him. Calibre was a .450/400 from memory.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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TOBY458
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: NitroX]
      #241473 - 30/01/14 10:07 AM

Yes I have that video. It's a 500 nitro express. I guess I meant that if the brain is hit, it doesn't matter much about what caliber you're using. I suppose if you miss the brain a 700 nitro might not stop him. It just seems that it would be easier to hit the brain with a more manageable caliber. I think it goes back to the old fast moving small caliber bullet, vs slow moving large caliber bullet. Anyone can tell that a fast moving bullet does more damage to flesh than a slow bullet. This can be seen comparing a 30/06 wound to a standard 45/70 wound. I would think that as long as penetration is achieved, the fast moving 375 bullet would do more damage than a slow moving 600, on a brain shot at least. Of course this all would only apply to Buffalo, not elephant.
But since I love big bore guns, I won't go any further. I'm starting to piss myself off defending small bores! lol!


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twobobbwana
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: TOBY458]
      #241531 - 31/01/14 04:52 PM

If I had the money, and he had the space on his calendar, I'd book with him in a heartbeat.......for as long as I could afford to hunt with him.

He's opinionated............but who among us isn't........ but it's opinion/knowledge from experience.

Remember "it ain't brag if you can do it !!". The movies prove that he can do it.

Anybody who knocks him for his up close and personal antics with buffalo etc had better chime in on Ivan Carter and Buzz Charlton as well.

But I would also book with these gents if I had the money and they had the time.

It's your money. You've seen the movies and read the books. It's your call.

Temper your decision with the knowledge that, it would appear that, nobody who has hunted with Mark Sullivan is posting on these websites criticising him.

I can stand to be corrected if I am in error.


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TOBY458
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: twobobbwana]
      #241542 - 01/02/14 02:16 AM

I agree Twobobbwana. With him you at least know you're getting a skilled hunter. I have no way of telling on some of the rest. I've always wondered why no one criticizes Ivan Carter as well. He takes more chances with elephant than Mark does with Buffalo. He's just not as boastful as Mark I guess. But like you said, at least Mark can back up his claims. I have no doubt he would provide a hunt of a lifetime.

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Claydog
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Re: Anyone ever hunted with Mark Sullivan? [Re: TOBY458]
      #241554 - 01/02/14 08:36 AM

It has always been my belief any wounded game should be finished at the first opportunity, not at the best camera opportunity. That is the difference I see between ms and other hunters. Ivan Carter does take chances, but from what I have seen once something is wounded it is dispatched at the first opportunity. I don't see waiting until a wounded animal has enough and decides to charge as showing it respect.

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