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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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Postman
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Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada
Trijicon Reflex Sight on a Double
      #240602 - 14/01/14 02:24 PM

Does anyone use one of these ACOG reflex sights on their double? I have one mounted on a cheap Remington .30-06 pump gun and it is absolutely wonderful during driven hunts of whitetail when the action gets fast.

As I age, my eyes just aren't what they used to be with irons, so I'm contemplating the unthinkable to stray away from the tradition of iron expres sights.

I'm thinking to get a thin flat metal plate, drilling it and screwing the reflex sight to it and then drilling/tapping the quarter rib and screwing the plate down to the quarter rib. The ACOG as supplied by Trijicon mounts to a picatinney base that puts the sight way too high above the bores, so I'm thinking that if I solve for the "too high mounting" issue with the affore mentioned method of mounting low over the bore, I'd have a really functional sighting system... No batteries, self adjusting light intensity for the red dot thanks to the ingenious fibre optics and tritium, near indestructible sight, and fast fast fast to be on target........

The final consideration is the question of sacrilege to mount a combat sight on a classic double rifle.... Looks wrong, feels wrong, butt ugly, but damn, it REALLY works.

Recoil on a .500 NE is unkind to poor optics, so I'd be curious if anyone has "torture tested" one of these reflex sights by real genuine field use.....

And the most important question of all, will anyone still respect me in the morning if I mount this funky modern sighting system to an other wise very cool traditional double rifle?

Thoughts?


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Caprivi
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Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...
Re: Trijicon Reflex Sight on a Double [Re: Postman]
      #240604 - 14/01/14 02:46 PM

Here is one on a .577

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTz-gNSLhac

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God


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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Trijicon Reflex Sight on a Double [Re: Caprivi]
      #240614 - 14/01/14 04:41 PM

You can have a short section of the Weaver style mount milled out to sit lower on a rib so the stock iron sights will be usable. The mount the red dot on when needed or wanted.
I use a Fastfire2 on my 450 Searcy.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand


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Chasseur
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Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Trijicon Reflex Sight on a Double [Re: AkMike]
      #240660 - 15/01/14 09:03 AM

Various holo sights are heavily used in Europe on double rifles for driven game shooting. I would imagine there are more 7x65rs, 8x57rs and 9.3x74rs with holosights being used today than classic open sighted doubles.

Trijicons in particular are highly regarded for driven shooting. I toyed a few years ago with mounting one on a 9.3 for this purpose. I wouldn't put in on a classic/vintage rifle, but for a modern gun in a medium caliber I think its a handy and practical combination.



I know this is not a Trijicon in the photo but it gives an idea.

Edited by Chasseur (15/01/14 09:05 AM)


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Postman
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Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
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Re: Trijicon Reflex Sight on a Double [Re: Chasseur]
      #240669 - 15/01/14 12:48 PM

This is an absolutely amazing bit of data!!

The Ivan Carter YouTube flick has explained the two slot on ether side of the rib and the single oval hole drilled on top of my 88B PH that has been a mystery for me until now. So, the factory target that claimed the group was shot with a scope was actually shot with a Trijicon reflex and now makes sense to me. Likely the German to English translation did not address the finer nuances of scope vs reflex sighting gear.

As a result, I went to the Trijicon web site and pulled the product numbers for a reflex dual illuminated RMR and the appropriate mount that will fit directly to the factory rib inletting.

I will order same tomorrow once my local Trijicon distributor opens up for business for the day!!

I must say, that the membership on the NitroExpress forums are a truly impressive bunch of folk! Professional, respectful, insightful, educational, and very helpful!!!

Thank you to all!!,

Steve

Edited by Postman (15/01/14 02:31 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Trijicon Reflex Sight on a Double [Re: Postman]
      #240673 - 15/01/14 01:13 PM

Hi Steve

A negative comment. Outside of the USA, Trijicon seems to have close to ZERO customer service, for sporting sales at least, being primarily into mil sales. At least that has been my experience. I would not go near them anymore.

Hopefully they have some idea of customer service in the USA.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Postman
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Re: Trijicon Reflex Sight on a Double [Re: NitroX]
      #240676 - 15/01/14 02:14 PM

That may be a very valid comment.. I've never had cause to deal with a warrantee issue. I purchase in Canada through a company that imports and distributes to the various police forces. There is slim to no civilian sales presence here that I've experienced. I pay my money and I takes my chances. The good news is that the stuff is soooo resilient/durable, warrantee has never been an issue. The biggest challenge is the retail purchase.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Trijicon Reflex Sight on a Double [Re: Postman]
      #240677 - 15/01/14 03:42 PM

I have two RMR sights gathering dust, probably to be resold to someone in the USA, as I have never been able to source bases for them here in Aust. Probably buy some Docter sights to replace them. They won't ship the bases from the USA and the Aust Trijicon company which covers all of Asia and Africa haven't been any help even after many enquiries and personal contacts.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Jumbo
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Reged: 02/05/13
Posts: 27
Loc: Zambia
Re: Trijicon Reflex Sight on a Double [Re: NitroX]
      #241163 - 25/01/14 10:12 PM

Read this with great interest, as I am looking at doing the same to my Krieghoff.

What mounting base works simplest with this combination? Any ideas, cause I don't have the luxury of seeing too many in the metal, as sitting in Zambia makes this a bit tricky!

Thanks guys!

--------------------
Decisions made.......now to find the gun!
.450NE is still the dream, but along came the Krieghoff .470NE.........couldn't say no!


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Postman
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Reged: 25/09/13
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Loc: Canada
Re: Trijicon Reflex Sight on a Double [Re: Jumbo]
      #241165 - 26/01/14 12:06 AM

Quote:

Read this with great interest, as I am looking at doing the same to my Krieghoff.

What mounting base works simplest with this combination? Any ideas, cause I don't have the luxury of seeing too many in the metal, as sitting in Zambia makes this a bit tricky!

Thanks guys!





Look at the Trijicon website. Based upon what I learned here, I've ordered the Dual Illuminated RMR sights. I ordered one with the Green triangle aiming point and one with the amber triangle aiming point.

I already own a Trijicon 1x24 Reflex (formerly called ACOG reflex sight) but I find that it sits too high for my liking for mounting on a double. I'd need to mount a picatinney rail or a one piece weaver type base on top of the rib, and then the picatinney or weaver base and ACOG would ride on top of that. It works ok on a Remington pump gun with it's really high comb, but not so well on a double simply because of the height it sit above the bore. Another option would be to get a flat bar of steel, longer than the ACOG, drill holes through the bar so one could tighten the mounting screws from the underside of the bar and up into the mounting holes in the ACOG, then where the bar extends out past the front and back of the ACOG, drill holes in the bar and matching drilled and tapped holes in the rib. This way one would eliminate using the Trijicon bases, and thus would eliminate some unnecessary height.

On the Trijicon website they show several bases for various applications. I have ordered the base that fit on the rib "of custom guns" as the Trijicon site refers to it. My Heym 88B PH is set up from the factory to accept this particular base. There are two sizes. The narrow one fits the Heym rib. The wider one fits the width of the Merkel rib.

For the RMR sights I've got on order, I've also ordered an additional base that fits the wider rib of my Merkel 140AE. The Merkel rib will require machining of the oblong hole on top of the rib and the narrow groove on either side of the rib so when I receive the sights and bases, I will need to bring it to a competent gun smith to have the work done. It is an estimated 10 weeks from now before I receive the RMR sights and bases, then it'll be however many more weeks it takes the gunsmith to do the machining work.

Before one goes too far down the road, it would be advisable to get a dial calliper and measure the width of the rib. My modern Heym and modern Merkel have ribs that will work with one or the other RMR base, but I have other older ribbed guns that have odd width ribs that neither base would fit.

The RM57 base is for 11-12 mm ribs

The RM58 is for 14-16mm ribs.









Edited by Postman (26/01/14 12:57 AM)


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Jumbo
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Reged: 02/05/13
Posts: 27
Loc: Zambia
Re: Trijicon Reflex Sight on a Double [Re: Postman]
      #241199 - 26/01/14 04:50 PM

Wow postman!

Thanks for all the detailed info. That certainly gives me a great starting point!

My rifle will be measured for rib width and I will start the process! Since mine is factory set up for QD scope mounts, I am hoping this will be a case if finding what works rather than machining etc to get something to work!

I will keep you posted!

Thanks again!

--------------------
Decisions made.......now to find the gun!
.450NE is still the dream, but along came the Krieghoff .470NE.........couldn't say no!


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Postman
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Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada
Re: Trijicon Reflex Sight on a Double [Re: Jumbo]
      #241231 - 27/01/14 12:00 AM

Hi Jumbo:

Once I have the Trijicon parts in hand, I'll report back and share any unforeseen challenges I uncover.

Based on the Ivan Carter YouTube video Caprivi shared earlier in this thread, I don't foresee any issues with mounting directly on my Heym without any fuss or machine work, but one never knows until one actually does the work.


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Kebco
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Reged: 22/05/06
Posts: 104
Loc: PA, USA
Re: Trijicon Reflex Sight on a Double [Re: Postman]
      #242806 - 20/02/14 11:55 PM

Skip the ACOG, look at the RMR sight

The Docter brand seems to be more popular worldwide but the Trijicon is better known in the US. I have used both with no issues. You can get a better selection of hunting style mounts for the Docter while many of the mounts available for the Trijicon look very tactical/military. These sights have different footprints so they are not interchangeable between brands. Trijicon does make a adapter plate so Docter mounts can be used.

Verney-Carron uses a short piece of steel with a weaver type crossbolt slot, inletted in the rib. The head of the V-C shop feels that this is a more secure method for attaching the sight than milling the side of the ribs. I have spoken to a well respected double gun gunsmith in the US who while he acknowledges it is more secure feels the V-C system is overkill.
I personally like the weaver type base because if down the road you want a different sight you can more than likely find a mount for a weaver style base but may not be so lucky with the milled rib.

If you already have German pivot bases (ERA/EAW type) in your rib, several people make a mount that adapts them to using the Docter reflex sight. Using the Trijicon adapter plate (part # RM37) the Trijicon scope could also be used.


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