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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Ed. Kettner single shot [Re: DarylS]
      #240697 - 16/01/14 03:24 AM

This is my 1871/76 carbine re-chambered to .450 Alaskan.






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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by CptCurl (21/04/14 09:27 PM)


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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1775
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Ed. Kettner single shot [Re: DarylS]
      #240703 - 16/01/14 07:29 AM

Quote:

the only 8.15X46R's were on ADYT or AYDT (?) single shot rifles.



No, Daryl. After Adolph Frohn, Suhl, designed this cartridge after 1890, it soon became the standard German centerfire target cartridge and remained so until WW2. It's main advantages were: It was available everywhere. It was easily reloadable, pre-packed powder charges and swaged lead bullets in many weights available from the ammunition companies.
So it was chambered in all types of rifles, even some combination guns and drillings are known. Tom Rowe published 2 books, "Alte Scheibenwaffen I and II", on the various German target rifle actions. Though most of them were Falling blocks like the Aydt, the various Büchels, Nimrod and so on, others were variations of the basic Martini action like the Frohn, Stahl or Kessler. Nearly all these actions were made in 8.15x46R too. Cheaper sporting rifles, used for less formal target shooting and small game hunting up to roe deer, in 8.15x46R were buit on Tell-type break-open actions and these simplified Mauser M71 type actions. If you look at the catalog pages shown by Lancaster in this thread, you find the Normalhülse = standard case 8.15x46R among most caliber offerings.
These simplified M71 type actions are not sporterized Military actions and were not made by Mauser. Instead, they were a staple of the Suhl and, even more so, the Zella-Mehlis guntrade up to WW1. Usually they omitted the M71 bolt stop screw, the sear serving as a bolt stop, and often the Mauser flag safety too. They were made by many makers there in all sizes from giant for 12 gauge Vogelbüchsen to tiny ones for pistol-sized rook and rabbit cartridges. Here is such a miniature action by Sauer & Sohn, pre-1893, in 7x20R "Z", essentially a .32 long Colt case tapered down. As you see, the action is much too small for the 8.15x46R, top photo, but would fit a .32-20, bottom.



Edited by CptCurl (21/04/14 09:28 PM)


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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1775
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Ed. Kettner single shot [Re: DarylS]
      #240706 - 16/01/14 07:50 AM

Quote:

This is my 1871/76 carbine re-chambered to .450 Alaskan.



You are only confusing people with your 1871/76 "model" designation. There never was such a "model". 1876, as on your carbine, is merely the date of manufacture and acceptance. Such dates were necessary to identify a certain gun in the German military numbering system, as each factory restarted with number 1 each new fiscal year. The correct designation for the action is "Mod.71", as marked on the left side of the receiver. Here you can also see the original configuration of your gun: I.G. stands for Infantrie Gewehr, J.B. for Jägerbüchse ("Jäger" is not only hunter, but the German name for light infantry, called "Rifles" in Britain and "Rangers" in America), Car. for carbine of course. Yes, there was a Mod.71/84 later, marked such on the left side of the receiver, but this was a repeater with tubular magazine.


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chapmen
.300 member


Reged: 26/02/10
Posts: 229
Loc: Middle of germany
Re: Ed. Kettner single shot [Re: kuduae]
      #240735 - 16/01/14 07:18 PM

What i meand is the late reproof date, sure the rifle itself is much older. But for me it is interesting that it was proofed again in 1943, middle of ww2.
For my opinion it was used for hunting, not for use as trainingrifle ore rifle for the hunting type matches like "running boar", tipical this rifles were used with lead bullets. The "J" stamp says that something was changed, i think it was reborred to get the bore dia for copperjacket bullets.
An interesting question would be if there are any older proofmarks, also it is possible that an new barrel was used in 1943 with the old system.
These two points would give an meaning for me to use the J proofmark.

( sorry for my english......)

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some fine old guns from germany :
www.jagdwaffensammler.de


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Ed. Kettner single shot [Re: chapmen]
      #240760 - 17/01/14 02:44 AM

Thanks for the clarification on models and shipping dates kuduae - without this sort of input, one does not learn.

The only 8.15X46R's I've seen (probably only around 1/2 dozen of them in total, were the single shot target rifles (Aydt, I think they were called).

My model 71 - marked on the right side, 1876 1876 is marked on the left side, as you said - Mod. 71 (or what looks like Mod. 71)

I do know it differs from the model 71's marked 1884, in that the 1884's appear to have .446" groove diameters, whereas the 1876 I have, has a .458" groove diameter, even though chambered for the same round with a .446" bullet - thus my choice in rechambering the rifle to a .45 calibre round.

Initially it had a .437" bore and .457" groove diameter. After re-chambering and firing 40 firelapping loads it now measures .438" X .458".

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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