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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns
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casper50
.400 member


Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska
.730 paradox bullets needed
      #237891 - 17/11/13 08:06 AM

I've looked all over for some .730 12 bore paradox shaped bullets. I'm trying to reload for my single barrel rifle but cannot find anyone that will sell be 50 or even 100. Anyone know where I can find some?

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: casper50]
      #237893 - 17/11/13 09:13 AM

Have you talked to Cal Pappas or OmnivorousBob about some?

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: AkMike]
      #237894 - 17/11/13 09:24 AM

If those fail get a mold from Tom at accurate molds.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=16

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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MikeRowe
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Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 478
Loc: Arkansas, USA
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: AkMike]
      #237896 - 17/11/13 10:49 AM

Have you tried Bob Hayley?

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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
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Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: casper50]
      #237898 - 17/11/13 11:36 AM

Casper50 , I asked a heap of people for slugs for my 12Bore Magnum Rifle, a couple said they would send me some (I would pay) but non came through, I even saw one of them selling some on the net, but again he let me down !

So I tried round ball & they work very well, I used a expensive ball mould first, then got one from Jeff Tanner, very cheap, fast work & delivery, mould works just fine .

Give RB a try while you look for slugs, they even shot well (smaller balls) in my Simpson 12Ga shotgun I just glued some sights on for a play.

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casper50
.400 member


Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: Sarg]
      #237908 - 17/11/13 06:02 PM

Cal was no help. I have no idea who Bob is or how to get in touch with him. I want to try the bullets before buying a mold to see if they will shoot decently.

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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: casper50]
      #237909 - 17/11/13 06:55 PM

Bob's in Eagle River, I'll drop him a line about this. I thought you knew him already. Sorry.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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casper50
.400 member


Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1344
Loc: Alaska
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: AkMike]
      #237942 - 18/11/13 07:31 AM

Thanks Mike. I appreciate it.

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: casper50]
      #237946 - 18/11/13 08:06 AM

No Problems! I sent him the link to this thread so I'm pretty sure that he'll wander in when he gets it. He really likes these bore rifles.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: AkMike]
      #237954 - 18/11/13 10:31 AM

I think you're in luck Mike! PM sent with what I've just received.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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CommandCar
.333 member


Reged: 18/09/10
Posts: 292
Loc: East Coast, USA
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: AkMike]
      #237957 - 18/11/13 12:25 PM

Quote:

If those fail get a mold from Tom at accurate molds.

http://www.accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=16



I was figuring what I would charge for 100 solid paradox type slugs and came up with $ 150-$200: $45 for the lead and tin and the rest for time and shipping. The old style moulds cast .736 to .740 so you would need a sizer of the correct diameter. Most common size dies for the old paradox rounds were about .735ish. I have moulds I might be convinced to loan (I have before), but no .730 sizing die. John Millar might loan you a mould and may have a sizer or could easily make one.

It seems you have a modern rifled bore? You are better off slugging your barrel, checking twist and ordering a fresh mold from accurate. I've looked at their designs, they look good, but I have no personal experience with them. If it did not work, it seems you could readily sell your new mold and recoup much of the expense.

Good luck, I hope you post your results.

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Omnivorous_Bob
.333 member


Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 285
Loc: Montana
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: CommandCar]
      #237966 - 18/11/13 05:56 PM

Casper, a through search of my garage finally turned up a .732" NEI mold for 840 grain paradox type bullets. PM me your address and I'll throw it in the post tomorrow for you to try out for as long as you like. They might be a little heavy unless you figure a way to hollow point them?

Mike, I also confirmed that I still have your excellent 577 Snider mold. I can drop it by your place or give it to you at our spring shoot. Those bullets worked much better than the one's I purchased.

Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26521
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #237978 - 19/11/13 03:21 AM

Lee Precision might be talked into making a sizer body that fits standard presses (or the oversized, 1" hole in some presses) for any size you want. In smaller sizes at 7/8x14 thread, they charge something like $30.00 per die now.
You have to phone their custom shop as this service is not listed on their web site.

With their sizer dies, comes the close fitting plunger that fits the ram like a shell holder.

Lube the bullet and push them through - VERY simple. They come out the top, one after the other. Push a bullet into the die and take one off the top.

These dies, in successive sizing of about .003" can be used for drawing bullets to smaller sizes, ie: .338's to .330" and .375's to .366" for instance. A buddy uses a set of 3 dies from Lee for drawing 225gr. .323's to .312" for his .303 Brit. - with excellent results.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NONAGONAGIN
.224 member


Reged: 03/04/14
Posts: 11
Loc: USA
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: DarylS]
      #244975 - 04/04/14 06:28 AM

If you want lots of info and places to buy slugs for 12,16,20,28 etc., goto Accurate Reloading, http://forums.[blank]/, and contact Ed Hubel, 12 gafromHell. He's into Paradox big time.

I'm just about to order another mold from Accurate Molds...a 0.690" dia, 700-715 gr tumble lubed slug for use with a WAA12F114 wad. Should get 14-1700 fs depending on which shotgun I use...low speed for O/U's and hi speed in my NEF USH.

I just received my designed #51-690B from Accurate Molds, for use in my 50-70, 50-90 and 50 Rigby wildcat.

You can also get slugs from BPI, Ballistics Products, http://www.ballisticproducts.com/, and several other online places...just Google "12 ga slugs".

I would stick with 600-750 gr slugs as the recoil goes up fast as you increase slug weight and the performance does down just as fast because the recoil is so vicious at the heavier end you won't load them up high enough to gain anything other than recoil.

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gungadoug
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Reged: 13/08/12
Posts: 285
Loc: NM
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: NONAGONAGIN]
      #245047 - 04/04/14 11:55 PM

Casper, how many you need? I have a Brooks mold that throws them at .730, and 748 gr.
Doug

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: casper50]
      #245448 - 11/04/14 12:36 AM

Dixie Slugs have been making original Paradox style slugs for some time. Haven't used them myself, but they seem to have a good reputation on some forums.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
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Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #245458 - 11/04/14 01:30 AM

Some of the modern slgs are cast pretty hard and care should be taken when using them in older guns, the ball and shot and rifled choke guns in particular.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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NONAGONAGIN
.224 member


Reged: 03/04/14
Posts: 11
Loc: USA
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: gatsby]
      #245570 - 12/04/14 12:40 PM

Dixie has shut down for a while...products are no longer available.

Some of my paradox toys...

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Ruger_450
Banned


Reged: 10/03/13
Posts: 163
Loc: WY & FL
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: NONAGONAGIN]
      #245594 - 13/04/14 02:51 AM

Lee will make you a custom mold very reasonably.

This is the 1.2 oz bullet they made the mold for to up the ante in my Baker 61 caliber flintier. Worked just fine.
Lubed with SPG using a cutoff 16 gauge empty as a cookie cutter.










BIG HOLE !



3 @ 50 WITH 7 DECADE EYES. (elbow rest)

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NONAGONAGIN
.224 member


Reged: 03/04/14
Posts: 11
Loc: USA
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: Ruger_450]
      #245612 - 13/04/14 10:20 AM

Nice slug...nicer pile of steaks and roasts!!!

That's a new slug shape to me but it looks very good...you got me thinking...I haven't sent off my drawing yet to Accurate Molds, now I might just re-think my design.


What drawing program is that?

Thanks

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26521
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: NONAGONAGIN]
      #245643 - 14/04/14 01:45 AM

The 'bullet's' shape is the standard Lee R.E.A.L. shape, which stands for: Rifling Engraved At Loading

The are made as production runs in .45, .50 and .58 calibres and are available in double cavity aluminum moulds w/handles for a paltry $25.99 - normally.

The bands are supposed to be progressively larger towards the nose, so that the bottom band slides into the bore, barely touching. The next engraves a bit, more, etc as you approach the nose, with the last one being the largest. This progressively larger bullet diameter helps to give a tighter fit inside the bore - so that: accuracy is increased and more importantly, the slug does not slide out the bore if the muzzle is pointed downwards. THAT is the danger of shooting slugs in ML rifles - rung/ringed or blown barrels are the result from displaced bullets at the moment of ignition. This slug, if fitting properly, should prevent movement.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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NONAGONAGIN
.224 member


Reged: 03/04/14
Posts: 11
Loc: USA
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: DarylS]
      #245654 - 14/04/14 04:02 AM

Thanks Daryl...I understand the "REAL" bullet concept, but for some reason the bullet in the pic just looked different...brain phaht I think, or old age dementia.

I don't do a lot of muzzle loading, mostly round ball and the twists on my 45, 50 and 54 smoke poles have one very accurate round ball load apiece that work great and none of them shoot any of the other offerings worth a hoot...All I've tried just make a big pattern so I haven't looked beyond round balls.

My "paradox" shooters are 12 and 20 ga rifled shotguns with twist rates that will handle long, heavy bullets higher velos and my newest designs are "tumble" lube styles...lots of small grooves for finger lubing with Alox.

That bullet in the picture just looked MEAN.

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Ruger_450
Banned


Reged: 10/03/13
Posts: 163
Loc: WY & FL
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: DarylS]
      #245655 - 14/04/14 04:41 AM

I don't know what the software is. I talked to the guy at Lee, told him what I wanted and he designed it and sent me a link to the picture.

One error I made is that the Baker was a "hammer them to start" design. The famous statue in London even shows the hammer used hanging from the "Chosen man's" belt. I would have made it .605 rather than .610.

Back then they used patched round balls although when things got hot they would carry bare balls in their mouths, spit them onto the charge, keep the muzzle elevated and kill the Frenchies.

If you have not seen the series "Sharpe's Rifles" you should. The books were great but to see the Bakers in action is great. Netflix has it …. sadly not remastered in BluRay.

Recently I acquired a discontinued Lyman Round nose Minnie Ball hollow base .585 mold. Gonna try it as is. If it doesn't work I am lucky to have a pal who builds molds and can open it up to .600 so starting and reloading won't take a hammer.

I have actually shot mine off a front rest out to 400 yards at a VW bug sized boulder. After some "Kain-tuck" elevation, you would not want to be in that VW.

As for your Paradox gun, 12 gauge is .729 and most slugs are hollow based. You could also buy some Brennekke 12 bore slugs with the screwed on wads and try them.

Finally Ballistic Products:

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Slugs/departments/198/

has all kinds of 12 bore slugs, sabots and molds.

I have shot 45 caliber Barnes Copper bullet sabots from my .452 percussion ML and they will shoot well enough for shots to 200 yards. It is really set up for big heavy lead bullets, but the Barnes would work for hunting.





When I lived in the East in a shotgun only for deer area I used Brennekes for years but then switched to the 12 Bore Federal Barnes sabots. They shot flatter, would put 3 in a playing card at 100 (scoped, rifled 870) and killed like the hammer of Thor on big corn fed Whitetails.

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tinkerModerator
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Reged: 12/03/05
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Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: NONAGONAGIN]
      #245660 - 14/04/14 07:04 AM

Quote:



My "paradox" shooters are 12 and 20 ga rifled shotguns




Let's be clear here guys.
A 'rifled shotgun' is a bore rifle - not a shotgun and definitely not a Paradox.
A Paradox gun is a special machine - and needs special ammunition and projectiles.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26521
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: .730 paradox bullets needed [Re: tinker]
      #245662 - 14/04/14 07:21 AM

Quote:

Quote:



My "paradox" shooters are 12 and 20 ga rifled shotguns




Let's be clear here guys.
A 'rifled shotgun' is a bore rifle - not a shotgun and definitely not a Paradox.
A Paradox gun is a special machine - and needs special ammunition and projectiles.



Point taken, Tinker, but I think HIS description was meant to be interpolated as "I don't have any paradoxes, but I do have both 12 and 20 rifled guns"

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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